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Trying to establish the time period of this photograph.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:28:54   #
bittermelon
 
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.



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Jan 11, 2022 22:38:51   #
KindaSpikey Loc: English living in San Diego
 
bittermelon wrote:
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Emp... (show quote)


Wow, interesting and curious. Looking forward to an answer!

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Jan 11, 2022 22:49:27   #
Hip Coyote
 
the first thing to do is to get someone who can read the writing to translate. Will be a fun posting to follow.

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Jan 11, 2022 23:30:13   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
The translation by my wife says exactly what you said. Names are correct the Red at the bottom explains that is the only picture of her. My guess is the Lady on the right may not be Alice Roosevelt but an English Woman as this was shortly after the last Opium War.

Wiki has a very good article on her.

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Jan 12, 2022 00:15:50   #
bittermelon
 
I know what the writings say. On the left it says "Roosevelt's daughter Alice". On the right it says "Cixi". The writing on the little boy says "Tongzhi Emperor" (the 8th emperor of the Qing dynasty, Cixi's son. He only lived to be 19). the bottom of the photograph says "the only photograph of Cixi when she was young. Now stored in US Museum". It does not say which museum.

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Jan 12, 2022 00:20:42   #
bittermelon
 
Since this is a photography forum, my question is whether a photo taken in 1862 (40 yrs after photography was invented) can be this quality. Or maybe it was restored and enhanced.

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Jan 12, 2022 00:46:17   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
bittermelon wrote:
Since this is a photography forum, my question is whether a photo taken in 1862 (40 yrs after photography was invented) can be this quality. Or maybe it was restored and enhanced.


The quality doesn't look that great to me - it's not very sharp. Obviously hand colored.

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Jan 12, 2022 01:09:39   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
I understand that color photography came about decades later than the claimed date of the photograph. Further, it looks hand colored which technique became popular before the advent of true color photography. The Roosevelt lady may've wrote up her travels, and this writing could establish the photograph's date. Experts on this forum may produce a useful history of the photograph.
bittermelon wrote:
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Emp... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 12, 2022 03:50:04   #
User ID
 
anotherview wrote:
I understand that color photography came about decades later than the claimed date of the photograph. Further, it looks hand colored which technique became popular before the advent of true color photography. The Roosevelt lady may've wrote up her travels, and this writing could establish the photograph's date. Experts on this forum may produce a useful history of the photograph.

Without any special expertise I can read “1862” at the bottom of the picture. That is 22 yrs before Alice R. “Junior” was born and about 45 yrs before she would be the approximate age of the white woman in the photo. The child in the photo was dead before Alice “Jr.” was born. Alice “Senior” was only 1 yr old in 1862, so no explanation there, either.

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Jan 12, 2022 06:05:10   #
zenagain Loc: Pueblo CO
 
Looking up the picture with Google image search this picture comes up with the following.
"This old photo is a photo of Yehenala Jingrong, the wife of Guogong Zaize in Wangye Town in the late Qing Dynasty, with a foreign woman and son."
It goes on to explain how affluent this woman was and how the Chinese didn't trust photography at first. It was in B&W and hand painted color.

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Jan 12, 2022 06:06:58   #
rmm0605 Loc: Atlanta GA
 
bittermelon wrote:
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Emp... (show quote)


Unfortunately I don't read the Chinese calligraphy, so I don't know who the western woman is. If 1862 is correct, it would seem as though the photo would be of Teddy's wife's generation. Love to find out!

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Jan 12, 2022 06:38:26   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
bittermelon wrote:
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Emp... (show quote)


1862

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Jan 12, 2022 07:06:56   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
bittermelon wrote:
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Empress Dowager Cixi and Alice Roosevelt, daughter of Teddy, taken in 1862. The timing is not right, as Alice was not born until 1884, and toured Asia, including China, in 1905. Whereas Cixi died in 1908. If the woman on the left is indeed Alice Roosevelt, then the woman on the right is not Cixi. This could be a significant photograph. Cixi is a major player during the late Qing dynasty, and ruled China for 45 years behind a very young emperor. Supposedly, this is the only photograph of Cixi as a young mother.

I also question the quality of this photograph, if it was indeed taken in 1862.
Supposedly this is a photograph of the Chinese Emp... (show quote)


Dec 4, 1861, at 3:23 PM

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Jan 12, 2022 07:22:46   #
ELNikkor
 
If my grandfather was still with us, he could tell me if that was Alice Roosevelt. He danced with her at a Washington socialite party when her father was in the White House. I'd have to check his diary for the exact date.

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Jan 12, 2022 08:08:58   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Thanks for additional info. I'll have to learn Goggle image search.
zenagain wrote:
Looking up the picture with Google image search this picture comes up with the following.
"This old photo is a photo of Yehenala Jingrong, the wife of Guogong Zaize in Wangye Town in the late Qing Dynasty, with a foreign woman and son."
It goes on to explain how affluent this woman was and how the Chinese didn't trust photography at first. It was in B&W and hand painted color.

Reply
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