Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL
J****** 6 scenario

7 states have t***smitted dual slates of e*****rs to the President of the Senate.

The 12th Amendment merely provides that “the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the v**es shall then be counted.” There is very solid legal authority, and historical precedent, for the view that the President of the Senate does the counting, including the resolution of disputed e*******l v**es (as Adams and Jefferson did while Vice President, regarding their own e******n as President), and all the Members of Congress can do is watch.
The E*******l Count Act, which is likely unconstitutional, provides:
If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those v**es, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the e*****rs who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of e*****rs so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what e*****rs have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the v**es regularly given of those e*****rs, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as e*****rs the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those v**es, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful e*****rs appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such v**es not to be the lawful v**es of the legally appointed e*****rs of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such v**es, then, and in that case, the v**es of the e*****rs whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.

This is the piece that we believe is unconstitutional. It allows the two houses, “acting separately,” to decide the question, whereas the 12th Amendment provides only for a joint session. And if there is disagreement, under the Act the slate certified by the “executive” of the state is to be counted, regardless of the evidence that exists regarding the e******n, and regardless of whether there was ever fair review of what happened in the e******n, by judges and/or state legislatures.
So here’s the scenario we propose:

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the b****ts, starting with Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the E*******l Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).
2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of e*****rs, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no e*****rs that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “e*****rs appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the e*****rs appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 v**es for Trump, 222 v**es for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the v**es shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one v**e . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that v**e. President Trump is re-elected there as well.
5. One last piece. Assuming the E*******l Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the E*******l Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of e*****rs, if they had not already done so.
6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a v**e of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the v**es) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

Wyantry Loc: SW Colorado

That is all really interesting reading. Typical legal obfuscation, i.e. “Lawyer-talk”.

The thing is, IT DOES NOT MATTER!
It DID NOT HAPPEN!
It CAN NOT happen now!

Continued howling, whining, crying and so-forth about “what-might-have-been” seems absolutely IRRELEVANT. It may go to proving “prior intent”, but that is prior history that right now does-not-matter.

More important is the nonsense going on in congress RIGHT NOW—Potentially placing onerous tax increases on (you can guess it) the Middle Class, and Small Businesses. As well as spending TRILLIONS of dollars with no realistic plans to assure how it will be paid for!

Oh, the tax-the-rich plan currently being floated sounds good, but if-and-until the entire tax-code is overhauled, “the rich” will {and have} already structured their tax liabilities to avoid paying taxes—legally! And until the laws are applied equally to all persons INCLUDING CONGRESS, the onerous burden of taxes will CONTINUE to be born by — (you can guess it) — the middle class and small businesses.
The “rich” will be able to continue using the built-in tax benefits to sequester, shield and avoid payments. Someone may be WORTH billions, yet only “MAKE” say, $100k/y.—the limit of their ‘tax liability’ because that is their ‘annual income’—not related to their ‘net worth’.
Or a ‘congressperson’ may make $80k/y, yet have multiple houses or properties in and around D.C. or elsewhere, that are worth hundreds-of-millions yet contribute next-to-nothing in taxes.

Yet the current bills being considered by a Democrat majority would adversely affect small businesses, small personal-farms and ultimately, the middle-class taxpayers.

A summary of the bill(s) and the possible effects and a timeline are here: https://www.nfib.com/content/analysis/national/key-dates-to-watch-congress-and-the-threat-of-small-business-tax-increases/

An assessment of some of the potential effects is here:
https://www.cagw.org/thewastewatcher/congress-should-not-impose-damaging-small-business-tax

I just hope one-or-a-few democrats have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to Pelousy et. al. and the machinations being tried to get both bills through the House concurrently, without v****g on a bill (infrastructure) already agreed-to by the Senate.

It seems to be an iteration of the old “my way or the highway” attitude (so famously employed by the “previous President”) . . . .

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

These men were planning to o*******w a l********e e******n by subverting the constitutional process of certifying legal e******n results. They should be charged with treason.

Wyantry Loc: SW Colorado

I suggest you talk to Pelousy about this. Maybe she can fold it in under some ‘prosecutorial reconciliation’ action by the 06 January investigation committee.

Might as well try to get them ALL !

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

Seriously, can you make a serious comment about the John Eastman plan to overturn e******n results by circumvention of constitutional mandates?

Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast

You fail to realize that the Committee investigating the J****** 6th I**********n will be subpoening all of the trump administration documents and communications relating to the i**********n.

This document will become evidence against the author and any recipients of the document.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

Kmgw9v, All prosecutable J** 6 crimes get punished now or this 2020 e******n caper is just a calibrated blueprint for the next one.

No 6 is where it gets good ... the VP plan. The first and last sentences say it all.

1st - "The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission - ..."

last - "The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind. "

This is all about Mike Pence doing the right thing by 'Il Duce Bag ... or get lynched.

Dan Quail turns out to be the only one with any common sense and advised Pence ... "Don't Break The Law"


" 6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a v**e of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the v**es) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind. "

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

The die has been cast. The country will be fortunate if the 2024 e******n doesn’t trigger a Civil War. All losers cry foul, and their supporters take to the streets.

Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast

How could this scenario play out given that each state had already certified their v**es with Joe Biden having won the majority of the v**es?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

"The person having the greatest number of v**es for President, shall be the President" (and Vice President)

Both Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won 306 E*******l College v**es each.

https://www.archives.gov/e*******l-college/2020

The joint session of the House and Senate to count the State Certified V**es is a meer formality!

Legally, in 2021, Vice President Mike Pence could NOT o*******w the will of the v**ers in each state.

But with all of the v**er suppression laws and "v****g reform" laws sweeping the country in 2021, the will of the people in each state will be very much in doubt because the GOP can throw out the actual results and change from majority rule to the candidate of the GOP's choosing if the GOP doesn't like the results of the actual e******n.

Think about the stink that the GOP would be putting up if the reverse was the case where the Democrats decided to throw out the results where a GOP candidate had won at the state or local level and instead put forth a Democratic candidate as the winner against the will of the people who had actually showed up at the polls to v**e for their candidate of choice. The outrage from the GOP would be loud and clear.

In states where the political leaning of their population has been changing over the years, the GOP has been gradually losing their long held majorities. The GOP can no longer win a free and f**r e******n without suppressing the v**e of the opposing party, and gerrymandering the v****g precincts. The problem that the GOP is coming to find is that the process of suppressing the v**e of the Democrats is also hurting their own party.

https://apnews.com/article/tx-state-wire-donald-trump-e******n-2020-business-v****g-rights-bea2903cf9119ca427327acd2f307364

https://www.vox.com/22346839/republicans-attacks-on-mail-v****g-research-studies

https://newrepublic.com/article/162646/gop-mail-in-b****ts-v**er-suppression

The GOP can't win without v**er restrictions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/14/gops-increasingly-blunt-argument-it-needs-v****g-restrictions-win/

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/21/politics/v****g-rights-senate-republicans-trump-biden/index.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/v****g-restrictions-will-appease-trump-but-not-help-gop-win-2021-5

Are the Republicans shooting themselves in the foot?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/republican-v**er-restrictions-us-e******ns

Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan

The real point is we wouldn't have a failing country that is turning into a Venezuela right now if Trump was still in.

In 8 short months all because of Biden and the Democrat's making,

• we have suffered the greatest military debacle in U.S. history
• seen another quarter of a million Americans die from C***d in the light of 3 new v*****es and multiple therapeutics
• lost our border to invading i*****l a***ns spreading C***d, drugs, and burdening us with welfare dependency
• Have lost our status as a thriving world-beating economy to a beaten down failed form of neo-socialism
• plunged into the worst inflationary spiral in a generation
• lost our hard won energy independence
• lost our American sovereignty to g*******ts
• have become more disunited than at any time since the Civil War
And that's only part of the results Joe Biden and the Democrats have given us.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

One can always cite problems with the government, and blame the current administration. There is a counterpoint to everything you have cited—but to argue those points would be a wasted effort.
The real point of this thread is the six pint plan by the Trump administration to destroy the e*******l process in this country. Trump lost, but he cannot admit that; and has done everything in his power to destroy the bedrock of democracy—the e*******l process. Address that. All integrity, virtue has been lost forever Trump and his minions did it. Read “Peril” if you want to understand.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

“Is there no virtue among us? If not, then we are in a wretched situation.”
James Madison

Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan

I'll address who is destroying the bedrock of democracy—the e*******l process unlike you who never bring anything to the table intellectually but ignorance and h**e. But first, the stink from your BS is coming right through the computer. Being totally hypothetical, there is no real point to your thread as John Eastman does not speak for Trump anyway. And what he proposed is within the law anyway. Many state legislators had different slates of e*****rs in 2020, PA for one. And there are provisions for that in law. This has occurred before in America which dim bulbs wouldn't know.

Now, who is destroying the bedrock of democracy—the e*******l process? Mass mail-in v****g, b****t harvesting, no v**er ID requirements, no b****t signature verification, failure to purge the v**er rolls, dead and ghost b****ts counted, not allowing poll watchers, counting late v**es cast after the polls closed, duplicate v**es counted, and more proven illegalities all perpetuated by Democrats is what has destroyed the e*******l process in this country.

And that's a shame because in a sham of an sectoral process we ended up with your boy Biden who has t***sformed us into a third-rate country in 8 short months.

Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay

All that typing and it’s all BS.

Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan

All that typing contains facts, something you wouldn't know about. What have you ever brought to the table but A-Hole opinions.