Changing backgrounds / foregrounds
Sep 24, 2021 08:47:43 #
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing a background / foreground to create a new image and whether the 'new' image should be allowable in a club competition?
I don't currently have a view either way, but I feel Pandora's Box has been opened. If I were to shoot a fox in my garden, then a Badger a few minutes later would you be able to tell if I shott the 'background' independently - then pasted a fox or a badger onto it. Editing is only going one way at the moment.
I would expect, in the case of a competition entry all components of the final image to be the work of one author.
I don't currently have a view either way, but I feel Pandora's Box has been opened. If I were to shoot a fox in my garden, then a Badger a few minutes later would you be able to tell if I shott the 'background' independently - then pasted a fox or a badger onto it. Editing is only going one way at the moment.
I would expect, in the case of a competition entry all components of the final image to be the work of one author.
Sep 24, 2021 08:52:22 #
John N wrote:
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
It really depends on the competition. Some allow "creative license" others want only unaltered jpegs straight from the camera. Most expect that some light processing, like removal of debris recorded in the photo, as well as something that is referred to as "border patrol" to look at each border to see if it "makes sense" - like having things at the edges that should either be left out entirely or included entirely, and so forth. Those kinds of alterations do not substantively change the image, but make its message or "story" (god I hate that term), clearer and without visual distraction.
Sep 24, 2021 09:04:29 #
Gene51 wrote:
It really depends on the competition. Some allow &... (show quote)
Depends on the rules of the competition. If they don't want "tweaked images" they should say so.
Sep 24, 2021 09:10:06 #
John N wrote:
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
Did you shoot both the Background and Foreground / Subject?
Sep 24, 2021 09:14:50 #
I prefer "straight" photography. No adding what wasn't there at the time the photograph was taken. However, I also enjoy doing work similar to Jerry Uelsmann's creations. They fall into a different category.
To answer your question, I probably could tell.
--Bob
To answer your question, I probably could tell.
--Bob
John N wrote:
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
Sep 24, 2021 09:17:42 #
maxlieberman
Loc: 19027
In our club, we have a specific contest category for images that have been manipulated beyond cropping, sharpening, and other simple adjustments.
Sep 24, 2021 09:38:35 #
I'm one of those purists who doesn't add things, normally. I'm not above deleting a person or a stray bit of mess around the base of a cactus that I didn't see when I was there. I don't know how to change something as huge as the sky and I'm not sure I would do that. When I see a photo of an animal set in a beautiful surroundings, I really admire the ability of the photographer to find and photograph that. Then, when I learn it has been manipulated to that, I'm really disappointed. It's still a beautiful image, but I'm more impressed with photographic skills than I am with computer skills. In your case, it would depend on the rules established by the competition itself. Some have none. Some are very specific. One exhibit I entered didn't state such a rule, but they did disqualify an entry because it was determined to be a composite. They explained that their group's basic premise would not allow that. If you know the group well, you probably know their disposition and should likely abide by it.
Sep 24, 2021 10:29:25 #
John N wrote:
beI'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
A lot of the sky replacements look fake. You really need to use this properly. I refuse to alter the backgroung and let the bokeh remain in the photo especially in wildlife. I wish they hadn't made it so easy . Now half the photo's are manipulated
Sep 24, 2021 10:44:53 #
John N wrote:
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
One of my favorite parts of photography is replacing the backgrounds, or manipulating the BG to enhance the subject.
As far as contests, well obviously it depends on the contest. If it's a high school photo club teaching camera use only, then no editing allowed. If it's a high school club teaching photo editing, then editing required.
Whatever the rules, they must be specified before the contest, not after.
Sep 24, 2021 10:54:48 #
The competition organisers should be clear on the intent. If the intent is to make it a photography oriented competition then the posted entries should all be purely photographs (with traditional photo editing being acceptable). If the intent is to make it more creativity oriented then there shouldn't be any restrictions regarding what's real and what's created.
In other words is the focus on photography or creativity? A different remit means different rules are required. (SOOC purists should form their own little clique and not try to impose their sense of propriety on the rest of us).
In other words is the focus on photography or creativity? A different remit means different rules are required. (SOOC purists should form their own little clique and not try to impose their sense of propriety on the rest of us).
Sep 24, 2021 14:51:04 #
As others have expressed better than I'm about to, competitions will have general guidelines or specific rules. People simply need to find the group and/or competition that suits their own interests.
Seems on UHH there's a lot of false-teeth gnashing over nada
Seems on UHH there's a lot of false-teeth gnashing over nada
Sep 25, 2021 06:42:16 #
Sep 25, 2021 07:09:56 #
billnikon
Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
John N wrote:
I'm interested to hear members views on replacing ... (show quote)
This topic refuses to die, it just keeps on gasping for breath.
Does an artist have a disclaimer under their paintings on changes and techniques they needed to finish their canvas?
As to competition, most well run competitions will spell out perimeters on using post. Some say that post is a separate entry. Some competitions spell out what can be submitted and what will not.
If nothing is mentioned all bets are off.
Are you a member of the club? if so, what is there stand on this issue? All clubs have their own rules concerning manipulating prints. If I am going to enter a competition, I check the rules with a fine tooth comb before I enter an image.
Personally, what ever I do to an image to enhance it is my business, and no one elses.
Sep 25, 2021 07:31:56 #
Unless the picture is being used as evidence, making it look better is what processing is all about.
Sep 25, 2021 08:03:02 #
We all are different and we all have our own opinions. It is obvious, as has already been discussed, that in a competition the rules have to be checked first before entering. They could or could not accept manipulations of an image beyond the obvious.
In my case I find that I can use sky replacement, not background replacement in some of my images to enhance them. At present I do not have software to do that. My editor is Affinity Photo that offers a way to select the sky to replace it but it is a tedious process. Luminar from what I have read does a great job. If attention is paid to the lighting conditions replacement of the sky can look quite natural.
"Unless the picture is being used as evidence, making it look better is what processing is all about."
I agree with Jerry. I remember when photographers did not want to accept in camera metering.
In my case I find that I can use sky replacement, not background replacement in some of my images to enhance them. At present I do not have software to do that. My editor is Affinity Photo that offers a way to select the sky to replace it but it is a tedious process. Luminar from what I have read does a great job. If attention is paid to the lighting conditions replacement of the sky can look quite natural.
"Unless the picture is being used as evidence, making it look better is what processing is all about."
I agree with Jerry. I remember when photographers did not want to accept in camera metering.
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