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Possibly some helpful info for SOOC photographers...
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Jul 11, 2021 09:43:13   #
controversy Loc: Wuhan, China
 
Several comments to an earlier post suggest that some UHH followers do not know about or understand there are user-configured controls in their cameras that define how the camera will process the native internal raw file to produce a JPEG.

Every JPEG created by your camera will have a Picture Style/Control applied to it -- either the original factory default settings, the last settings you selected and forgot about, or the settings you just chose for the image you are capturing.

Canon Picture Styles and Nkon Picture Controls are preset yet adjustable parameters that determine how your camera will process and render its JPEG images. Picture Styles/Controls are applied to JPEG (still) and video files during exposure. They are permanent to the extent that the rendering is "baked in" and cannot be undone.

Using them allows you to adjust for a variety of final image parameters. Standard, Neutral, Vivid, Portrait and Landscape, for example, allow for adjustments to clarity, sharpening, contrast, brightness, saturation, and hue (coloration). Monochrome allows for adjustments to sharpening, contrast, brightness, filter effects and toning.

Picture Styles/Controls can also be applied to RAW files, either during or after exposure. For RAW files the Picture Style/Control affects only how images are rendered on the camera’s LED display. The closer the Picture Style/Control is to your intended rendering, the more accurate your image preview will be. For example, if you intend to convert RAW images to black and white, the Monochrome Picture Style will provide a preview of the image in black and white while retaining all original color information in the RAW file. (Monochrome JPEG or video images can not be reconverted back to color.)

Any Picture Styles/Controls applied to RAW files can later be changed or modified using post-processing software. When applied during post-processing with the Canon Digital Photo Professional (DPP) or Nikon Studio raw developer you can apply any Picture Style/Control you like, whenever and as often as you like. The Picture Style/Control you choose will not become a permanent part of the rendering until you export the RAW file as a JPEG or TIFF.

The following links are to videos that further clarify, explain, and demonstrate how and why you should be using Picture Styles/Controls if you are a JPEG shooter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4yxzWjpcLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xknLxl_nqwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvuQLQHPaRE

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Jul 11, 2021 09:47:39   #
BebuLamar
 
Haha! I believe people who say they shoot SOOC don't want to know about this.

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Jul 11, 2021 09:53:11   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Page 3 of your prior post spoke to these camera options:

There's a few things you should consider for SOOC success shooting in JPEG.

1. Know you camera. And, make the camera easy to use.

Consider shooting in Aperture priority in Auto ISO. Then, review your lenses and decide which is appropriate: f/5 and be there, f/4 and be there or f/2 and be there. If you're not familiar with these apertures, take the capable lens and aperture and shoot just that one aperture for an entire day (3+ hours at least). See what you like / don't like.

In these modern times, try to use a VR-enabled lens.

Use a default +0.3 Exposure Compensation (EC). If you're shooting outside direct light, consider a default +0.7.

2. Update your Nikon Picture Control

I think Nikon's Vivid overdoes it. Try it, see if you like Vivid. If not, try updating Standard so Sharpening is maybe 6.0, Clarity is +1, Contrast is +1, and Saturation is +1. Shoot with this updated 'standard' picture control or rename to your own custom name.

3. Preset your AF point

You mentioned not being able to fiddle with your camera fast enough. One area to save time is decide where the focus should be and have the AF point or group / zone in that position before raising your camera. Assuming a landscape orientation, pre-position the AF off center on the upper 1/3 to the left or right of the center line through the frame. Position your body and raise the camera so the subject falls naturally at your pre-positioned AF point. As you shoot and compose and encounter new situations, just move that pre-positioned AF point / group back and forth across the top of the landscape frame between those two off-center positions.

4. Use the quickest and surest AF

Set your camera to AF-C continuous focus. Move the AF to a Back-Button-Focus (BBF) or leave on the shutter. Either way, have the camera in 'focus mode' as soon as you get the viewfinder to your eye. As soon as you have the framing / zoom, release the shutter in a low-speed continuous burst for 3- to 5-frames.

5 Use the sRGB colorspace

If you really don't want to process your images and want results 'ready for posting', be sure to use the universal online colorspace: sRGB.

Coming back to knowing your camera, know how to make every adjustment above. Check the manual if you don't know how. Practice being able to adjust the settings without looking at the camera, either while held to your eye or held down from your face while you track the action and just manipulate the camera with your hands without having to look down for more than a glace. Get a feel for the 'clicks' of the dials so you just count clicks in the correct direction knowing you're making the proper / desired adjustment.

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Jul 11, 2021 09:57:26   #
controversy Loc: Wuhan, China
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Page 3 of your prior post spoke to these camera options:

There's a few things you should consider for SOOC success shooting in JPEG.


Your remarks make sense to me - thanks for sharing your ideas.

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Jul 11, 2021 10:48:34   #
controversy Loc: Wuhan, China
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Haha! I believe people who say they shoot SOOC don't want to know about this.


What?! Are you suggesting there are people who use their expensive, sophisticated, configurable photographic instruments as simple point-and-shoot cameras and consider the JPEG images they produce as SOOC photography successes?

That can't be true -- tell me it ain't so!

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Jul 11, 2021 12:18:57   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
When you add links to the original posts the thread should be posted in the Links and Resources section. Ultimately it will probably wind up there. So, if you can't find it here in the discussion section, look there.

---

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Jul 11, 2021 12:39:32   #
BebuLamar
 
controversy wrote:
What?! Are you suggesting there are people who use their expensive, sophisticated, configurable photographic instruments as simple point-and-shoot cameras and consider the JPEG images they produce as SOOC photography successes?

That can't be true -- tell me it ain't so!


They didn't want to make those adjustments in the RAW converter which is a lot easier and they would have plenty of time to do and can undo it if they made the wrong adjustments and you think they want to bother with the menu to pick the best settings?
Think about the reason why they didn't want to shoot raw to begin with.
In the other thread I think you tried to pull our legs saying you have problem with SOOC but I don't think you really do that and if you do you don't have that much of a problem. It's the people like you who know how to make all those settings to produce good SOOC that want to do it afterward.
And for Point and Shoot do you know that today the definition isn't a camera that you can just point and shoot as almost all you can do that. It meant a compact camera.

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Jul 11, 2021 12:50:50   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
BebuLamar wrote:
They didn't want to make those adjustments in the RAW converter which is a lot easier and they would have plenty of time to do and can undo it if they made the wrong adjustments and you think they want to bother with the menu to pick the best settings?
Think about the reason why they didn't want to shoot raw to begin with.


I'm one of those "they" that you are talking about. Why don't you tell me why I don't want to shoot RAW? And you can look at some of my posts and tell me what I'm missing by shooting jpeg.

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Jul 11, 2021 12:54:14   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Haha! I believe people who say they shoot SOOC don't want to know about this.


SOOC just means the settings are entered before the shot taken & applied in camera not that the default camera settings are used.
Choosing a Vivid rendering is similar to deciding to use Velvia film. A creative decision made before clicking the shutter.

Most who claim to shoot SOOC will make use of controls like this as well as the cameras contrast/sharpness settings. Many others will use their cameras on default settings but they're less likely to be enthusiasts and may not have a clue what SOOC means.

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Jul 11, 2021 13:00:57   #
BebuLamar
 
Retired CPO wrote:
I'm one of those "they" that you are talking about. Why don't you tell me why I don't want to shoot RAW? And you can look at some of my posts and tell me what I'm missing by shooting jpeg.


I don't want to tell you anything. I wanted to tell the OP that what he said helps nobody.

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Jul 11, 2021 13:12:04   #
User ID
 
Retired CPO wrote:
I'm one of those "they" that you are talking about. Why don't you tell me why I don't want to shoot RAW? And you can look at some of my posts and tell me what I'm missing by shooting jpeg.

The reason you ask such a thing is the same reason you are satisfied with, and proud of (?), your sooc files. Untapped potential is not readily visible. If you eat at fast food joints all the time you’re bound to wonder why folks go to proper restaurants or perhaps to diners.

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Jul 11, 2021 13:26:01   #
controversy Loc: Wuhan, China
 
Retired CPO wrote:
I'm one of those "they" that you are talking about. Why don't you tell me why I don't want to shoot RAW? And you can look at some of my posts and tell me what I'm missing by shooting jpeg.


If you *really* want to know what you're missing don't bother with asking us amateurs. You should submit a few of your very best images to a stock photography site and see if they will accept them. Most of those sites are very direct in their critiques regarding the technical aspects of the image, the subject, and the composition.

Places like Fotolia, Getty Images, Alarmy, Stocksy, and many more. Just Google "stock photography site."

Seems like you made a bold challenge to BebuLamar -- can you step up to this bold challenge?

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Jul 11, 2021 13:53:05   #
BebuLamar
 
Sorry admin killed your thread by moving it to links and resources.

Reply
Jul 11, 2021 17:01:15   #
Ysarex
 
controversy wrote:
Several comments to an earlier post suggest that some UHH followers do not know about or understand there are user-configured controls in their cameras that define how the camera will process the native internal raw file to produce a JPEG.

Every JPEG created by your camera will have a Picture Style/Control applied to it -- either the original factory default settings, the last settings you selected and forgot about, or the settings you just chose for the image you are capturing.

Canon Picture Styles and Nkon Picture Controls are preset yet adjustable parameters that determine how your camera will process and render its JPEG images. Picture Styles/Controls are applied to JPEG (still) and video files during exposure. They are permanent to the extent that the rendering is "baked in" and cannot be undone.

Using them allows you to adjust for a variety of final image parameters. Standard, Neutral, Vivid, Portrait and Landscape, for example, allow for adjustments to clarity, sharpening, contrast, brightness, saturation, and hue (coloration). Monochrome allows for adjustments to sharpening, contrast, brightness, filter effects and toning.

Picture Styles/Controls can also be applied to RAW files, either during or after exposure. For RAW files the Picture Style/Control affects only how images are rendered on the camera’s LED display. The closer the Picture Style/Control is to your intended rendering, the more accurate your image preview will be. For example, if you intend to convert RAW images to black and white, the Monochrome Picture Style will provide a preview of the image in black and white while retaining all original color information in the RAW file. (Monochrome JPEG or video images can not be reconverted back to color.)

Any Picture Styles/Controls applied to RAW files can later be changed or modified using post-processing software. When applied during post-processing with the Canon Digital Photo Professional (DPP) or Nikon Studio raw developer you can apply any Picture Style/Control you like, whenever and as often as you like. The Picture Style/Control you choose will not become a permanent part of the rendering until you export the RAW file as a JPEG or TIFF.

The following links are to videos that further clarify, explain, and demonstrate how and why you should be using Picture Styles/Controls if you are a JPEG shooter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4yxzWjpcLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xknLxl_nqwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvuQLQHPaRE
Several comments to an earlier post suggest that s... (show quote)


The unsurmountable problem with all of the above is that most of us are not taking photos in controlled studio conditions where we can prep the subject, build the set and control the lighting. Outside the studio it is almost a guarantee that what we find that we want to photograph will present a subject characteristic or lighting contrast condition that the camera's picture controls can't address and then all of the above comes crashing down.

I'm sitting here this afternoon processing a fairly large collection of photos -- 1060 to be precise. I'm 756 photos done with 304 to go (taking a couple of days). So far I haven't encountered one single photo out of 756 that hasn't been made a better image by applying selective local adjustments to the image. NOT ONE! 304 to go and odds are very high that all 1060 photos will be improved by some type of local adjustment that can't be accomplished with the camera picture controls. That'll be 100%.

This isn't about knowing what to do to get the image right in camera. It's about getting it best in camera is usually not possible. Let's look at an example from the set I'm working on now -- illustration below -- a pink anemonee which I found in direct sunlight. The direct sunlight on the flower is fine, in fact I like it. But that same direct sunlight is also shining on the background. Now the SOOC JPEG shooters will just set up the portable light stand they always carry with them and pull a shim and clamps out of their camera bag and shim that sunlight off the background, yeah right -- works with mountain landscapes too. At best the SOOC JPEG shooter is going to get the photo you see on the left. None of the picture controls in the camera can do anything about how bright the background is relative to the subject. The left photo isn't awful but the photo on the right is better with the background subdued. Do we want best or not? I want best and in the case of this photo and the other 755 I just processed best can't be done using the camera's picture controls and generating an SOOC JPEG.

If the odds are that high against you getting a best result with the camera picture controls SOOC then why bother at all? It takes time and effort to screw around with something that probably won't work anyway. Doesn't sound too smart does it. The only way it makes sense is you're willing to settle for less than best.


(Download)

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Jul 11, 2021 19:14:19   #
controversy Loc: Wuhan, China
 
Ysarex wrote:
The unsurmountable problem with all of the above is that most of us are not taking photos in controlled studio conditions where we can prep the subject, build the set and control the lighting. Outside the studio it is almost a guarantee that what we find that we want to photograph will present a subject characteristic or lighting contrast condition that the camera's picture controls can't address and then all of the above comes crashing down.


Thanks for your comments.

It's refreshing to hear from someone who actually gets it and understands what is truly required to create a quality photograph and "get it right."

It's amazing to read the proclamations of righteous indignity from those who *clearly* have no real understanding of how their cameras work, what is actually required to create a quality photograph, and are so outspoken in defending their ignorance -- even after the simple facts are shown to them they continue to defend the indefensible. Somehow the limitations of what an unaided camera can actually capture don't exist in their world - physics and science don't apply to their cameras.

What's most laughable is to hear them defend their ignorance of photography by pointing to the images they have posted -- simple uncorrected images reminiscent of vacations and backyard bird snapshots. Clearly, there's nothing wrong with snapshots but one should never confuse them with intelligently composed. executed, and corrected photographs. Snapshot shooters should just accept their limitations and stay out of discussions about photography.

As someone said, "the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it's limits."

A tip of the hat to you, sir!

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