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Monitor issue
Jun 10, 2021 09:37:13   #
AndyT Loc: Hampstead, New Hampshire
 
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.


(Download)

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Jun 10, 2021 09:43:51   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca. For the last 50 years.
 
AndyT wrote:
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.
The very problem I'm about to describe might not b... (show quote)


What I see looks like a shadow in the background, of the vase, Which means you have another light coming from the right side creating a shadow. That's what it looks like to me cuz it is actually shaped just like the vase. You might get better answers more accurate if you tell us what you're set up was. What's the background, how far away, lighting, etc.

I'm just another amateur like you but that's what it looks like to me.

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Jun 10, 2021 10:17:34   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
I don't see it on my (2) 27" HP monitors

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Jun 10, 2021 10:23:41   #
Ysarex
 
AndyT wrote:
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.
The very problem I'm about to describe might not b... (show quote)


The retouching along the edge of the vase is clearly visible. Her laptop monitor is likely too dark and too high contrast and it hides the retouch work.

Before investing in a new monitor the begged question is what calibration device (example: https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorMunki-CMUNDIS-Accuracy-Calibration/dp/B0055MBQOM/ref=sr_1_7?crid=370UWBOKI767F&dchild=1&keywords=x-rite+i1display&qid=1623334701&sprefix=x-rite+%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-7) is she using to calibrate and profile her laptop display? If she buys a new external monitor what calibration device does she plan to use to calibrate and profile her new external monitor? Point being until a monitor is correctly calibrated and profiled it's not very useful to be concerned with how well it displays an image.

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Jun 10, 2021 10:26:07   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
AndyT wrote:
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.
The very problem I'm about to describe might not b... (show quote)


One thing that I had discovered also the hard way is what the contrast and black level is set for on your monitor. I to have shared images with friends and my friend would see edits, noise, and defects that I was not seeing because the black level on my monitor was set too high, meaning deeper blacks obscuring the issues visible in a less contrasting set up. Perhaps I can't explain it either.

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Jun 10, 2021 10:29:13   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
AndyT wrote:
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.
The very problem I'm about to describe might not b... (show quote)


A better monitor for your friend is probably the solution. The 'band' you describe is very subtle, but clearly visible when the image is viewed at the 1:1 pixel-level for that area. Your friend, anyone, should carefully review the cable connection options to assure the laptop can even be connected to an external monitor. A docking station may be needed to enable the ports for an external monitor.

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Jun 10, 2021 10:31:18   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
On my monitor I see the "shadow" of plants and vase just to the left of the vase and along the bottom of the lowest stem and bloom(?). I am also seeing speckles in the background below the lowest stem and bloom on the left side of the image, and seeing plant in shadow on the upper rt side of the frame and some above the plant in the middle of the frame. Personally, I'd retouch the entire background to black as the plant and vase in shadows is distracting to me, but that's a personal preference as the photographer might find the subtle distraction adds interest to the image. In any case, it's a very nice image. I like it.

3 things about monitors: 1) Older monitors are srgb and very old monitors might not even cover the srgb color space. Newer monitors cover wider color spaces like Adobergb, so you can see more colors. 2) Older monitors have less dynamic range, i.e. difference between black and white. So older monitors might not be able to achieve a good black. 3) Calibration is important, especially gamma, which is critical to seeing subtle differences in shadows and in highlights. My guess is your friend's laptop screen is not calibrated and/or isn't capable of showing subtle differences in shadow.

If your friend is going to add a monitor, she needs to make sure the graphics processor in the laptop is capable of driving it, i.e., right interface / connector, enough memory, and enough speed or it will be a frustrating experience. She might want to talk to customer support before buying.

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Jun 10, 2021 18:17:05   #
SonyA580 Loc: FL in the winter & MN in the summer
 
I see this type of thing all the time when using my 21" monitor to edit photos. My15" laptop screen can be tilted towards me to accentuate the highlights that the monitor can not show. The monitor is "calibrated" to the Costco printers and the images are slightly darker (more saturated) than what I see on the laptop (calibrating a laptop is like trying to calibrate a rifle on a moving target..., you never get the same reading twice. It depends on the "Tilt" of the screen). I always check the image on the laptop to see if there are artifacts not seen on the monitor before I save the shot.

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Jun 10, 2021 18:18:00   #
SonyA580 Loc: FL in the winter & MN in the summer
 
I see this type of thing all the time when using my 21" monitor to edit photos. My15" laptop screen can be tilted towards me to accentuate the highlights that the monitor can not show. The monitor is "calibrated" to the Costco printers and the images are slightly darker (more saturated) than what I see on the laptop (calibrating a laptop is like trying to calibrate a rifle on a moving target..., you never get the same reading twice. It depends on the "Tilt" of the screen). I always check the image on the laptop to see if there are artifacts not seen on the monitor before I save the shot.

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Jun 10, 2021 18:26:58   #
Hamltnblue Loc: Springfield PA
 
As noted, try adjusting the brightness of the monitor .
You can see the vase shadow as well as the remnants of a spider web on the bottom left flowers.

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Jun 11, 2021 06:59:51   #
sodapop Loc: Belcamp, MD
 
SonyA580 wrote:
I see this type of thing all the time when using my 21" monitor to edit photos. My15" laptop screen can be tilted towards me to accentuate the highlights that the monitor can not show. The monitor is "calibrated" to the Costco printers and the images are slightly darker (more saturated) than what I see on the laptop (calibrating a laptop is like trying to calibrate a rifle on a moving target..., you never get the same reading twice. It depends on the "Tilt" of the screen). I always check the image on the laptop to see if there are artifacts not seen on the monitor before I save the shot.
I see this type of thing all the time when using m... (show quote)


Good point. I have found that spot removal tools will not remove spots that are on the screen. LOL

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Jun 11, 2021 16:07:27   #
cbtsam Loc: Monkton, MD
 
Strodav wrote:
On my monitor I see the "shadow" of plants and vase just to the left of the vase and along the bottom of the lowest stem and bloom(?). I am also seeing speckles in the background below the lowest stem and bloom on the left side of the image, and seeing plant in shadow on the upper rt side of the frame and some above the plant in the middle of the frame. Personally, I'd retouch the entire background to black as the plant and vase in shadows is distracting to me, but that's a personal preference as the photographer might find the subtle distraction adds interest to the image. In any case, it's a very nice image. I like it.

3 things about monitors: 1) Older monitors are srgb and very old monitors might not even cover the srgb color space. Newer monitors cover wider color spaces like Adobergb, so you can see more colors. 2) Older monitors have less dynamic range, i.e. difference between black and white. So older monitors might not be able to achieve a good black. 3) Calibration is important, especially gamma, which is critical to seeing subtle differences in shadows and in highlights. My guess is your friend's laptop screen is not calibrated and/or isn't capable of showing subtle differences in shadow.

If your friend is going to add a monitor, she needs to make sure the graphics processor in the laptop is capable of driving it, i.e., right interface / connector, enough memory, and enough speed or it will be a frustrating experience. She might want to talk to customer support before buying.
On my monitor I see the "shadow" of plan... (show quote)


Are you seeing "speckles in the background below the lowest stem and bloom on the left side of the image" other than the cobwebs that I see there?

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Jun 11, 2021 16:13:35   #
profbowman Loc: Harrisonburg, VA, USA
 
AndyT wrote:
The very problem I'm about to describe might not be visible to all as monitors vary from one to another. My friend and I both have Elements 20 and send photos back and forth. She has a laptop (no, I can't tell you what it is) and it does not show things that mine does. I have an HP desktop, with an HP 2311x monitor, nothing fancy but I like it. We both run windows 10. The picture Im posting easily shows retouching along the vase. Its like a vertical band for lack of a better description right next to the vase. Her monitor doesnt show it at all, and wants to do the best retouching she can. She plans on buying an external monitor. We are both just advanced hobbyists, not pleasing paying clients, so she doesn't need anything very high end with a matching price tag. Is it just a laptop vs stand alone monitor issue, or should she be looking for something specific in her new monitor? Thanks very much.
Im enclosing the photo. You may have to view it in a darkened room in order to see it, but it's there.
The very problem I'm about to describe might not b... (show quote)


I do not see any retouching on my monitor, but I do need to share my central vision is bad. However, I don't believe it is retouching that you are seeing. Take a look at the image attached. All I did was take your image into IrfanViiew and dramatically up the brightness and reduced the contrast. Apparently, the vase was photographed against a brick or stone wall.

The age and quality of LED laptop displays can have varying spectra in the visible range. Quite often even current white LEDs have a spike in the blue region and then a trough somewhere between blue and green. This will affect what details can be seen on the screen of a laptop.

Also, as already noted by others, laptop screens have a lot of directionality associated with them so that one may see a dramatically different picture as the screen is bent more closed or more opened. --Richard



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Jun 12, 2021 03:00:58   #
Cheese
 
profbowman wrote:
I do not see any retouching on my monitor, but I do need to share my central vision is bad. However, I don't believe it is retouching that you are seeing. Take a look at the image attached. All I did was take your image into IrfanViiew and dramatically up the brightness and reduced the contrast. Apparently, the vase was photographed against a brick or stone wall.

The age and quality of LED laptop displays can have varying spectra in the visible range. Quite often even current white LEDs have a spike in the blue region and then a trough somewhere between blue and green. This will affect what details can be seen on the screen of a laptop.

Also, as already noted by others, laptop screens have a lot of directionality associated with them so that one may see a dramatically different picture as the screen is bent more closed or more opened. --Richard
I do not see any retouching on my monitor, but I d... (show quote)



Any chance there is another planter or vase peeking out from behind the vase in the photograph?

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