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What is match needle?
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Jun 8, 2021 13:34:06   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Virtually all cameras that allow users to control exposure settings have "match needle" metering. Even today.
...
...

Effectively, but I believe the reference was to the "physical matching" of the metering needle and the aperture circle in the viewfinder of the predecessor cameras.

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Jun 8, 2021 13:54:41   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
When I learned photography, we walked up hill both ways in the snow and said, 'thank you, can I have another.'

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Jun 8, 2021 14:04:26   #
User ID
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I know about a lot of different ways a manual metering system in a camera works. I thought I knew exactly what match needle means but then I see people define it differently that is why I asked. I asked also because the meter in the D5600 isn't match needle? I didn't think so but I think it's the improvement of the match needle.

You will encounter “match needle” describing any “align with the other marker” manual metering system.

Variations on the match needle include:
• match diode, with either two LEDs or one LED plus a needle
• match needle, with one or two needles
• match the mark, with one needle and a fixed mark
• centering a pointer on a scale marked from -2 to +2 (EV), nearly universal in digital cameras

If I’ve missed any I’m sure you’ve now got the general idea. All of the above can justifiably be called “match needle” cuz the term need not literally refer to a needle but is just a legacy term for “manually align the indicator”.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All an AE mode does for you is continually “match the needle” without your having to adjust the controls yourself. While thaz not always a great idea, in ordinary well lit conditions it works quite well enough for the Great Unwashed.

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Jun 8, 2021 14:11:09   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
User ID wrote:
You will encounter “match needle” describing any “align with the other marker” manual metering system.

Variations on the match needle include:
• match diode, with either two LEDs or one LED plus a needle
• match needle, with one or two needles
• match the mark, with one needle and a fixed mark
• centering a pointer on a scale marked from -2 to +2 (EV), nearly universal in digital cameras

If I’ve missed any I’m sure you’ve now got the general idea. All of the above can justifiably be called “match needle” cuz the term need not literally refer to a needle but is just a legacy term for “manually align the indicator”.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All an AE mode does for you is continually “match the needle” without your having to adjust the controls yourself. While thaz not always a great idea, in ordinary well lit conditions it works fairly well for most purposes.
You will encounter “match needle” describing any “... (show quote)


Match the metering needle with the aperture circle.

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Jun 8, 2021 14:31:32   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Give me example of a camera with match needle. I don't want to steal the thread but this member post this and I am wondering.

"sennamonster Joined: Feb 10, 2021 Posts: 26 Loc: fort wayne, IN

rmalarz wrote:
Are you sure you aren't making it more complicated than it really is? It's all rather simple, as far as exposure goes. The ISO indicates the sensitivity to light. The aperture controls how much light is passed through the lens, and shutter speed is how long the light is let through. It's just that simple.
--Bob


how i miss match needle"
Give me example of a camera with match needle. I d... (show quote)


I do understand your question. My Voightlander Vitomatic II has a literal match needle system. The ASA/DIN and aperture and shutter speed dials were sort of coaxially linked together to move a circular target to be centered, or "matched" over the meter needle. Later, the term got "genericised," like aspirin or xerox, to refer to a whole family of different kinds of matching techniques to achieve somewhat proper exposure.

My Voightlander's mechanism was viewed on the top of the camera body. On my SRT201, and later on my OM-1 and OM-2, a somewhat less literal system was actually visible through the viewfinder. And I still call the meter display that I see in the viewfinder of my D850 (when in manual mode) a match needle system, even though there is really no needle to be seen anywhere.

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Jun 8, 2021 14:36:23   #
BebuLamar
 
larryepage wrote:
I do understand your question. My Voightlander Vitomatic II has a literal match needle system. The ASA/DIN and aperture dials were sort of coaxial linked together to move a circular target to be centered, or "matched" over the meter needle. Later, the term got "genericised," like aspirin or xerox, to refer to a whole family of different kinds of matching techniques to achieve somewhat proper exposure.

My Voightlander's mechanism was viewed on the top of the camera body. On my SRT201, and later on my OM-1 and OM-2, a somewhat less literal system was actually visible through the viewfinder. And I still call the meter display that I see in the viewfinder of my D850 (when in manual mode) a match needle system, even though there is really no needle to be seen anywhere.
I do understand your question. My Voightlander Vit... (show quote)


As you can see the definition is so broad that the comment "How I miss match needle" makes me think that each of us has a different idea of what match needle is. Because as you said you consider the meter of the D850 as match needle then most cameras today have it how can it be missed?

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Jun 8, 2021 16:22:01   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Please read the post above as to which type you're referring to.


They all do essentially the same things. I had a Canon FX (meter cell on the side; meter on top), a Canon FTb (match needle meter in finder), a Nikkormat FTn (“center the finder needle in a notch”), a Nikon FTn (same scheme), Nikon FM (match LED with center mark), Yashica Mat 124G (center needle in circle), and on and on. They’re all the same to me.

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Jun 8, 2021 17:02:59   #
User ID
 
Longshadow wrote:
Match the metering needle with the aperture circle.

Maybe you coulda left that one for srt101fan. IIRC the SRT101 has the “lollipop” two needles system ;-)

But then again mebbe it was the FTb ?

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Jun 8, 2021 17:09:33   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
User ID wrote:
Maybe you coulda left that one for srt101fan. IIRC the SRT101 has the “lollipop” two needles system ;-)

But then again mebbe it was the FTb ?

FTb.

I have that and an AE1 still.
Don't use them though,
they're on display.

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Jun 8, 2021 17:11:44   #
User ID
 
BebuLamar wrote:
As you can see the definition is so broad that the comment "How I miss match needle" makes me think that each of us has a different idea of what match needle is. Because as you said you consider the meter of the D850 as match needle then most cameras today have it how can it be missed?

Thaz true.

Until I find out I’m wrong, I do have an M-mode with no form of match needle at all. So far, using only Leica mount lenses I have no version of match needle at all on the Z6. I can get a histogram in the viewfinder, and thaz my only “meter readout” ... and actually an excellent readout at that.

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Jun 8, 2021 17:39:25   #
BebuLamar
 
Longshadow wrote:
FTb.

I have that and an AE1 still.
Don't use them though,
they're on display.


Now that you remind me of the AE1 that one doesn't have match needle.

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Jun 8, 2021 18:22:19   #
User ID
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Now that you remind me of the AE1 that one doesn't have match needle.

Correct. The AE1 was always a miserable compromised product. It was quite an outstandingly third rate item in its day, and has not aged well. It also brought about the “n” changeover to the FD lens line, a sorry thing.

Longshaddow has one on display ? I’d use one for a doorstop except it’s too light.

The AE1 “manual metering” consists of reading the settings in AE mode and then manually setting the camera accordingly, just like if you had gotten those readings from a Lunasix or a Weston.

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Jun 8, 2021 18:44:31   #
no12mo
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Now that you remind me of the AE1 that one doesn't have match needle.



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Jun 8, 2021 19:03:03   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
User ID wrote:
...
...
Longshaddow has one on display ? I’d use one for a doorstop except it’s too light.
...
...


Used mine for many years without any problems.

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Jun 8, 2021 19:46:56   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
User ID wrote:
Correct. The AE1 was always a miserable compromised product. It was quite an outstandingly third rate item in its day, and has not aged well. It also brought about the “n” changeover to the FD lens line, a sorry thing.

Longshaddow has one on display ? I’d use one for a doorstop except it’s too light.

The AE1 “manual metering” consists of reading the settings in AE mode and then manually setting the camera accordingly, just like if you had gotten those readings from a Lunasix or a Weston.
Correct. The AE1 was always a miserable compromise... (show quote)


When I worked for a major semiconductor manufacturer, we made the chipset for the AE1. We were the sole source of, I believe, 5 integrated circuits that comprised the control system for the camera. The entire notion of using custom-designed integrated circuits in a consumer grade camera was a completely novel idea at the tine (late 1970s). So I guess it was sort of like the D100...great idea, relatively poor camera. Of course, it was never the idea or intent that anyone would use that camera manually...the A-1 and other much better models were already available for folks who wanted to do that. I looked at an AE1 to buy, but just felt that the build quality fell too short. Keep in mind also that neither Canon nor anyone else knew if anyone would even buy one.

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