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Monthly Masters' Critique - May 2021 - Sports Photography - Leiter's "Clay vs. Liston"
May 1, 2021 16:00:59   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
Introduction
Now that sports are beginning to open up after a year’s lockdown, we will this month look at sports photography and consider an iconic image that is on the top of every “best ever” list of sports photography: Neil Leifer’s shot of Muhammad Ali (then known as Cassius Clay) at the point of his victory over Sonny Liston.

Sports and action photography seem to depend on a complex mix of determination, luck, skill, and equipment. This image is no different. Leifer describes his most famous photograph like this: “Part of being a successful photographer is being lucky enough to be in the right spot at the right time like I was, but a more important part is not missing when you’re in that spot. I got very lucky at the Ali-Liston fight, but what I’m proudest of is that I didn’t miss.”

Take a good look at the image, and whether or not you have ever shot sports photos, share your reaction to it. Here are some questions to help you formulate a response. Answer any you wish, or simply share your opinion.

Questions for further thought:
1. What do you think about the composition? The angle? The “arrangement” of subjects? The expression captured on the subjects’ faces? The framing?
2. I’ve posted the color and monochrome versions. In every instance, I found the monochrome more tightly cropped. Why do you think that may be? Which do you find to be more effective? Why? How do you decide whether to present an image in color or monochrome with your own work?
3. Can sports photography be judged by the same criteria as other genres of photography? Why or why not?
4. This image was not a highly regarded image when it was first published. Only several years later did it come to be regarded as the most iconic sports photograph of all time. Why do you think it became more well regarded over time?
5. The concept of “decisive moment” is something we’ve discussed here and all over this and other forum spaces. Does this concept have more meaning for sports photography than other genres? Does this image illustrate the concept? Is that what Leiter means by "not missing"? Do you relate to the concept in your work?
6. If you have shot sports photos, for pay or for fun, whether at professional sports, your local high school, or your grandchild’s soccer field, please share one of your favorite images and tell us about it.

Links for further study
https://petapixel.com/2019/09/04/is-ali-vs-liston-the-greatest-sports-photo-of-the-century/
https://aboutphotography.blog/blog/2020/1/20/ali-vs-liston
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Leifer
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-was-the-greatest-in-one-of-sports-most-iconic-photos-too/
https://www.popphoto.com/american-photo/investigating-what-makes-sports-photo-excellent/
https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/greatest-sports-photos-1b9fb1db12514d57
https://slate.com/culture/2015/05/ali-liston-50th-anniversary-the-true-story-behind-neil-leifers-perfect-photo.html

fair use: https://slate.com/culture/2015/05/ali-liston-50th-anniversary-the-true-story-behind-neil-leifers-perfect-photo.html
fair use: https://slate.com/culture/2015/05/ali-li...
(Download)

fair use: https://cdn1.creativecirclemedia.com/sportshistory/original/20190131-053124-Ali-Liston.jpg
fair use: https://cdn1.creativecirclemedia.com/spo...

Reply
May 21, 2021 13:03:00   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
This photo is a prime example of the decisive moment, but more than that, it's not just any moment. Yes, it captures the expression, the mood and the atmosphere of the situation, as any good journalistic capture would be expected to do, but more than that, it captures a moment in time that might be described as one of Muhammad Ali's biggest steps towards becoming world famous and a prominent sports personality. It wasn't just a moment of victory, it was a pivotal moment in the history of boxing.

1. I would say the composition is 100% functional and that's what was needed. Artistic interpretation just doesn't come into it. The scene is laid out before us and there is nothing to get in the way of the portrayal of the storytelling. The most crucial element is the timing and the photographer nailed it.

2. I think the colour versions are more of an attempt to convey the atmosphere of the situation whereas the B&W versions go for a stark portrayal of the moment. Put more technically, the colour versions are portrayed more as a right brain perception whereas the B&Ws are more left brain oriented.

3. With sports photography, capturing the action is a key element so each shot will stand or fall depending on how well that objective was achieved. I can't think of any other genre where that applies as absolutely as it does in sport photography. Having said that, the photo under discussion is more about capturing an iconic moment rather than capturing action. A shot capturing the knockout punch would have been far more appropriate if a simple sports photo was what was required.

4. I think the true significance of this photo lies in the fact that it captures an iconic moment in the career of Muhammad Ali. That point wouldn't have been apparent at the time. The world of sport is probably full of shots of victors making all sorts of triumphant gestures, but few will have the historical significance that this shot has.

I don't have any "decisive moments" to share so I'll leave that to others. In my landscape photography I occasionally have to wait for a break in the clouds or for suitable lighting to present itself, and much of what I shoot is weather-dependent, but beyond that, timing is not a critical factor. And so far I haven't been present at any historically significant events, so my 15 minutes of fame will have to wait .

Reply
May 22, 2021 08:15:05   #
jburlinson Loc: Austin, TX
 
This is a fascinating example of "storytelling" by picture. But what is the story being told? Without familiarity with the specific circumstances of this fight, the story appears to be that of a superb athlete glorying in his supremacy in a physical contest at the highest level of sport. That story turns out to be false.

Ali is actually screaming at Liston, "Get up and fight, sucker!”, and he yelled "Nobody will believe this" as he was forced back to his corner by the ref. As he left the arena, Ali himself asked his retinue, "Did I hit him?" Liston went down in the first two minutes of the first round, and nearly everyone in the audience, including yours truly, glued to my TV set, was convinced it was a fake. Liston admitted it was phony years later, stating: "That guy [Ali] was crazy. I didn't want anything to do with him. And the Muslims were coming up. Who needed that? So I went down. I wasn't hit."

So the "real" story being told is nearly the opposite of what appears to be happening. The "decisive moment" is not the knockout. There was no knockout. If there is a "decisive moment" it is a moment of rage on the part of Ali that he has unwittingly become part of a con job. At the time, he was universally viewed as a cocky upstart, and he was desperate to prove himself to the world as "the greatest". He was mortified about the result.

I believe that's the reason it took a while before this image assumed its iconic status. Opinions changed as Ali began to achieve heroic status, while Liston transitioned from ultra-frightening thug to has-been pug pretty much overnight. As the event receded into the more and more remote past, it became possible to misread this image as the proverbial "thrill of victory, agony of defeat", when it was more appropriate to consider it the "agony of victory and the thrill of paycheck".

Reply
 
 
May 22, 2021 08:58:31   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
R.G. wrote:
This photo is a prime example of the decisive moment, but more than that, it's not just any moment. Yes, it captures the expression, the mood and the atmosphere of the situation, as any good journalistic capture would be expected to do, but more than that, it captures a moment in time that might be described as one of Muhammad Ali's biggest steps towards becoming world famous and a prominent sports personality. It wasn't just a moment of victory, it was a pivotal moment in the history of boxing.

1. I would say the composition is 100% functional and that's what was needed. Artistic interpretation just doesn't come into it. The scene is laid out before us and there is nothing to get in the way of the portrayal of the storytelling. The most crucial element is the timing and the photographer nailed it.

2. I think the colour versions are more of an attempt to convey the atmosphere of the situation whereas the B&W versions go for a stark portrayal of the moment. Put more technically, the colour versions are portrayed more as a right brain perception whereas the B&Ws are more left brain oriented.

3. With sports photography, capturing the action is a key element so each shot will stand or fall depending on how well that objective was achieved. I can't think of any other genre where that applies as absolutely as it does in sport photography. Having said that, the photo under discussion is more about capturing an iconic moment rather than capturing action. A shot capturing the knockout punch would have been far more appropriate if a simple sports photo was what was required.

4. I think the true significance of this photo lies in the fact that it captures an iconic moment in the career of Muhammad Ali. That point wouldn't have been apparent at the time. The world of sport is probably full of shots of victors making all sorts of triumphant gestures, but few will have the historical significance that this shot has.

I don't have any "decisive moments" to share so I'll leave that to others. In my landscape photography I occasionally have to wait for a break in the clouds or for suitable lighting to present itself, and much of what I shoot is weather-dependent, but beyond that, timing is not a critical factor. And so far I haven't been present at any historically significant events, so my 15 minutes of fame will have to wait .
This photo is a prime example of the decisive mome... (show quote)


Thanks for such a thorough review! I agree with you on the black and white which to me synthesizes the "moment" down to the essence. And as time went on and Ali became a more iconic figure in American sports, the photo assumed more importance and became more iconic itself.

I relate to your thoughts about landscape photography. Ever so often there is a shift in light, or an appearance of a passing creature that presents a decisive moment, but for the most part our choice of subject matter is quieter and more contemplative. I do get a bit of sports action at the little league field but it isn't quite the same.

Reply
May 22, 2021 09:03:48   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
jburlinson wrote:
This is a fascinating example of "storytelling" by picture. But what is the story being told? Without familiarity with the specific circumstances of this fight, the story appears to be that of a superb athlete glorying in his supremacy in a physical contest at the highest level of sport. That story turns out to be false.

Ali is actually screaming at Liston, "Get up and fight, sucker!”, and he yelled "Nobody will believe this" as he was forced back to his corner by the ref. As he left the arena, Ali himself asked his retinue, "Did I hit him?" Liston went down in the first two minutes of the first round, and nearly everyone in the audience, including yours truly, glued to my TV set, was convinced it was a fake. Liston admitted it was phony years later, stating: "That guy [Ali] was crazy. I didn't want anything to do with him. And the Muslims were coming up. Who needed that? So I went down. I wasn't hit."

So the "real" story being told is nearly the opposite of what appears to be happening. The "decisive moment" is not the knockout. There was no knockout. If there is a "decisive moment" it is a moment of rage on the part of Ali that he has unwittingly become part of a con job. At the time, he was universally viewed as a cocky upstart, and he was desperate to prove himself to the world as "the greatest". He was mortified about the result.

I believe that's the reason it took a while before this image assumed its iconic status. Opinions changed as Ali began to achieve heroic status, while Liston transitioned from ultra-frightening thug to has-been pug pretty much overnight. As the event receded into the more and more remote past, it became possible to misread this image as the proverbial "thrill of victory, agony of defeat", when it was more appropriate to consider it the "agony of victory and the thrill of paycheck".
This is a fascinating example of "storytellin... (show quote)


Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. IMHO, the story inside a photo usually has a footing in reality and a footing in the eyes of the beholder. That is part of the beauty of the art: allowing each viewer to find his own story within the image. And we can view the photo as an artistic endeavor without subscribing to the most currently promoted version of the story (which, as you've pointed out, can change over time).

Reply
May 31, 2021 07:08:38   #
fergmark Loc: norwalk connecticut
 
I don’t think I ever saw this photo. It is one of the most powerful shots I have ever seen, sports or otherwise. The night of this fight I recall as if it were yesterday. My folks were going out for the evening and I had plans for a really special evening listening to it camping out in their bed where the radio was. It just got started and it was over before I got settled in. I was in astonished disbelief. If I were to be in a position to have to choose one of the two photos It would be really difficult.

Reply
May 31, 2021 15:37:54   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
fergmark wrote:
I don’t think I ever saw this photo. It is one of the most powerful shots I have ever seen, sports or otherwise. The night of this fight I recall as if it were yesterday. My folks were going out for the evening and I had plans for a really special evening listening to it camping out in their bed where the radio was. It just got started and it was over before I got settled in. I was in astonished disbelief. If I were to be in a position to have to choose one of the two photos It would be really difficult.
I don’t think I ever saw this photo. It is one of ... (show quote)


Thanks for sharing your memory of the story told in the photo. Like many other images, it became more highly appreciated/valued quite some time after the fact. Perhaps the import of the event had to settle in, or perhaps the image was enhanced by the “story” of the main character, which developed over time. Interesting to consider.

Reply
 
 
Jun 10, 2021 14:56:57   #
cbtsam Loc: Monkton, MD
 
I don't know what you intended, but the color and B&W images are not "versions," but different images snapped at different moments and/or from slightly different perspectives. (1) Liston's right foot is almost invisible in the color image, and almost totally visible in the B&W. (2) Ali's right foot is just about invisible in the color image, and about half visible in the B&W. (3) The juncture of Ali's right bicep and tricep are clearly articulated in the B&W image, but not in the color. (4) There is some device on the corner pole; in the color image, it appears just above the top rope, but in the B&W it appears well above the same rope. (5) There is a cylinder of some kind behind the corner pole; in the color image, its top is just above the middle rope, but in the B&W, its top is nearly to the top rope. (6) In the color image, there is a bald man who looks like he has a twin lens reflex camera (or maybe it is something else entirely) and his head appears between Ali's legs; in the B&W, his head appears outside Ali's right leg. Most likely there are other discrepancies I have missed. I have no idea if Leifer took two shots, or one was taken by somebody else, but they are certainly not versions of the same image.

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 16:08:52   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
cbtsam wrote:
I don't know what you intended, but the color and B&W images are not "versions," but different images snapped at different moments and/or from slightly different perspectives. (1) Liston's right foot is almost invisible in the color image, and almost totally visible in the B&W. (2) Ali's right foot is just about invisible in the color image, and about half visible in the B&W. (3) The juncture of Ali's right bicep and tricep are clearly articulated in the B&W image, but not in the color. (4) There is some device on the corner pole; in the color image, it appears just above the top rope, but in the B&W it appears well above the same rope. (5) There is a cylinder of some kind behind the corner pole; in the color image, its top is just above the middle rope, but in the B&W, its top is nearly to the top rope. (6) In the color image, there is a bald man who looks like he has a twin lens reflex camera (or maybe it is something else entirely) and his head appears between Ali's legs; in the B&W, his head appears outside Ali's right leg. Most likely there are other discrepancies I have missed. I have no idea if Leifer took two shots, or one was taken by somebody else, but they are certainly not versions of the same image.
I don't know what you intended, but the color and ... (show quote)


Thanks for catching the indicators! Both are from Leiter's collections, so I assume one was shot just a moment after the other (maybe a burst series? not sure what his camera was capable of). Good photographer's eye you have!

I do still think they are similar enough in subject/action/story to give us the opportunity to compare color vs black and white. But that's an important distinction. I wonder if the folks whose resources I studied for this even realized it??

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 16:51:31   #
cbtsam Loc: Monkton, MD
 
Wow! I just went to your link, minniev { https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-was-the-greatest-in-one-of-sports-most-iconic-photos-too/ }, and found that the B&W image is attributed there to John Rooney, and that the guy whose head appears between Ali's legs in the color image was Leifer's superior at the time, Herb Sharfman, who had claimed his spot by the scorer's table by virtue of his seniority! And, yes, it was a Rollei. I'd guess Rooney was to Leifer's left, and was shorter (or just shot from a lower angle).

Regarding the color vs the B&W images, I find the cropping of the B&W superior in that it takes my eye back & forth between the two gladiators, while the cropping of the color image leads my eye to Ali alone in the center and upper third. I'd guess the color image became so iconic because, as has been suggested, Ali did, and its fame probably grew as Ali's did, so in the end nobody wanted to look at Liston anyway, they just wanted to look at Ali The Victorious. I'm not convinced that the color vs B&W dimension distinguishes them as much as the placement of the two men in the frame; in fact, if we cropped the color like the B&W is cropped, I think I'd prefer the color, because, all other things being equal, I'm a natural born sucker for "those nice bright colors!"

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 17:16:55   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
cbtsam wrote:
Wow! I just went to your link, minniev { https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-was-the-greatest-in-one-of-sports-most-iconic-photos-too/ }, and found that the B&W image is attributed there to John Rooney, and that the guy whose head appears between Ali's legs in the color image was Leifer's superior at the time, Herb Sharfman, who had claimed his spot by the scorer's table by virtue of his seniority! And, yes, it was a Rollei. I'd guess Rooney was to Leifer's left, and was shorter (or just shot from a lower angle).

Regarding the color vs the B&W images, I find the cropping of the B&W superior in that it takes my eye back & forth between the two gladiators, while the cropping of the color image leads my eye to Ali alone in the center and upper third. I'd guess the color image became so iconic because, as has been suggested, Ali did, and its fame probably grew as Ali's did, so in the end nobody wanted to look at Liston anyway, they just wanted to look at Ali The Victorious. I'm not convinced that the color vs B&W dimension distinguishes them as much as the placement of the two men in the frame; in fact, if we cropped the color like the B&W is cropped, I think I'd prefer the color, because, all other things being equal, I'm a natural born sucker for "those nice bright colors!"
Wow! I just went to your link, minniev { https://... (show quote)


That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Reply
 
 
Jun 10, 2021 17:27:46   #
srt101fan
 
Hi minniev, I saw R.G.'s post about the Monthly Master's Critique going on hold. I didn't comment much but always read your posts and the replies. You did an outstanding job in providing interesting and thought-provoking topics. Thank you very much for your efforts!

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 18:05:02   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
srt101fan wrote:
Hi minniev, I saw R.G.'s post about the Monthly Master's Critique going on hold. I didn't comment much but always read your posts and the replies. You did an outstanding job in providing interesting and thought-provoking topics. Thank you very much for your efforts!


Thanks so much for the kind words! I’d love to see someone else take it over for a while with some new ideas. I don’t mind helping but after 5 years my pond is fished out!

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