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A Follow Up to a Discussion Comparing RAW to JPG
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Apr 10, 2021 19:42:37   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
A while ago, I posted a link to a discussion regarding RAW and jpg. You can find it here - https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-691790-1.html .

It was pointed out that a slightly different comparison would have been appropriate. Initially, the compared jpg was derived from the RAW file. What happens if one does a RAW and jpg capture of the same scene. Then, compare those two images.

That has been done. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3fjCJG3ld0

--Bob

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Apr 10, 2021 20:44:30   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
He's off base. You don't shoot SOOC JPEG because you intend to post process. I'm raw only to the point of extreme. I have that luxury so I take it. Not everyone has that luxury and there are plenty of legitimate reasons to shoot SOOC JPEGs. I know a photographer who shoots pro football. He's good at it. He takes great photos. It's been nearly a decade since the people who write him checks let him know that all additional checks would require that his camera be wifi live to their desk during the game. They get photos of his posted online before half-time. Those photos don't get post processed they get posted. He has to be good enough to have his work published before he even gets to see it himself! Talk about stress in the workplace! I couldn't do it and my hat's off to a great photographer who only shoots JPEGs.

The bottom line problem with that video is he's taking something created for an intended purpose and mucking around with it in a way never intended and they complaining. That's bogus.

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Apr 10, 2021 20:48:03   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Personally, I think it's a great illustration of the advantages of capturing in RAW format. Like yourself, I'm RAW only.
--Bob
Ysarex wrote:
He's off base. You don't shoot SOOC JPEG because you intend to post process. I'm raw only to the point of extreme. I have that luxury so I take it. Not everyone has that luxury and there are plenty of legitimate reasons to shoot SOOC JPEGs. I know a photographer who shoots pro football. He's good at it. He takes great photos. It's been nearly a decade since the people who write him checks let him know that all additional checks would require that his camera be wifi live to their desk during the game. They get photos of his posted online before half-time. Those photos don't get post processed they get posted. He has to be good enough to have his work published before he even gets to see it himself! Talk about stress in the workplace! I couldn't do it and my hat's off to a great photographer who only shoots JPEGs.

The bottom line problem with that video is he's taking something created for an intended purpose and mucking around with it in a way never intended and they complaining. That's bogus.
He's off base. You don't shoot SOOC JPEG because y... (show quote)

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Apr 10, 2021 21:02:00   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rmalarz wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Personally, I think it's a great illustration of the advantages of capturing in RAW format. Like yourself, I'm RAW only.
--Bob


He's unfair to people who chose to shoot JPEG and understand what they're doing and why. He needs to better acknowledge that JPEG exists for an appropriate reason and does a great job in that role. It's ok if he wants to present a demo of why JPEGs can't stand up to heavy handed processing but he needs to present it that way while acknowledging why JPEGs have their place and that they're terrific at serving their intended function.

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Apr 11, 2021 11:18:22   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I have said in the past that this is a discussion that will never end. I hope everyone is aware that modern JPEG files are superior in all respects to those of only 5 years ago.

RAW data is very flexible but the operator needs to know editing because without the appropriate editing the resulting file will NEVER be similar to the original scene. Take a sunset picture in RAW data and tell me if it resembles in any way the original scene.
Original JPEG files and I mean files that have not been edited except for the camera settings in general have excellent quality. I know of a female wedding photographer that only shoots JPEG and she never had a client to complain of the poor quality of her images. It is true that a 16 bits data has more than an 8 bits but to begin with that 16 bits has to be converted to 8 bits to be printed. Did the data lost anything when converting from 16 to 8 bits? Surely did.

There is a place for both, RAW and JPEG.

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Apr 11, 2021 12:42:52   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
No, he's not. The entire video was to show the difference between RAW and jpg. Can people shoot suitable jpg images? Sure. But, that's not the point.
--Bob
Ysarex wrote:
He's unfair to people who chose to shoot JPEG and understand what they're doing and why. He needs to better acknowledge that JPEG exists for an appropriate reason and does a great job in that role. It's ok if he wants to present a demo of why JPEGs can't stand up to heavy handed processing but he needs to present it that way while acknowledging why JPEGs have their place and that they're terrific at serving their intended function.

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Apr 11, 2021 13:28:42   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rmalarz wrote:
No, he's not. The entire video was to show the difference between RAW and jpg. Can people shoot suitable jpg images? Sure.

In which case they're just as good as shooting raw.
rmalarz wrote:
But, that's not the point.
--Bob

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Apr 11, 2021 13:35:07   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
"In which case they're just as good as shooting raw."

Unfortunately, that's incorrect. In some cases, close but not as good.
--Bob

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Apr 11, 2021 13:37:14   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rmalarz wrote:
"In which case they're just as good as shooting raw."

Unfortunately, that's incorrect.
--Bob


Based on what?

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Apr 11, 2021 13:40:01   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Apparently, you need to acquaint yourself with the differences between shooting RAW and shooting jpg. For one, it's the amount of information captured.
--Bob
Ysarex wrote:
Based on what?

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Apr 11, 2021 13:50:59   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rmalarz wrote:
Apparently, you need to acquaint yourself with the differences between shooting RAW and shooting jpg. For one, it's the amount of information captured.
--Bob


You're missing the point just like the video author missed the point. You just said people can shoot suitable JPEG images.

Let's try again. The task is to shoot a product for internet advertising. The photo will go directly from the camera via wifi to automated sizing and directly to display on the internet. How is the amount of information in a raw file better for that?

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Apr 11, 2021 13:59:09   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
You are selecting a unique, specific situation on which to base your argument. Fine. Go right ahead. Now, if you really want to have a meaningful argument, why not argue with Blake.

I posted these links in order to provide useful information to those who may not realize the vast difference between the two formats. Posts, such as yours, do nothing more than obscure the information presented and lead to more confusion for those interested in learning.
--Bob
Ysarex wrote:
You're missing the point just like the video author missed the point. You just said people can shoot suitable JPEG images.

Let's try again. The task is to shoot a product for internet advertising. The photo will go directly from the camera via wifi to automated sizing and directly to display on the internet. How is the amount of information in a raw file better for that?

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Apr 11, 2021 14:12:10   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rmalarz wrote:
You are selecting a unique, specific situation on which to base your argument. Fine. Go right ahead. Now, if you really want to have a meaningful argument, why not argue with Blake.

But this is my point. I'm not trying to dismiss the differences between working with raw versus JPEG. But I am complaining about the way the video author went about it. He made a bunch of prior assumptions that on face value are wrong. Some people shoot JPEGs knowing full well that they will never see post processing -- that any post processing is not an option. They should shoot raw because it's better?

The only thing I'm asking for from the video is a more appropriate acknowledgement that SOOC JPEGs exist for darn good reasons and in those cases they're completely appropriate.

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Apr 11, 2021 14:15:46   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
"The only thing I'm asking for from the video is a more appropriate acknowledgment that SOOC JPEGs exist for darn good reasons and in those cases, they're completely appropriate."

And, that is something you'd need to take up with Blake. He's amenable, as indicated at the beginning of the second video.
--Bob
Ysarex wrote:
But this is my point. I'm not trying to dismiss the differences between working with raw versus JPEG. But I am complaining about the way the video author went about it. He made a bunch of prior assumptions that on face value are wrong. Some people shoot JPEGs knowing full well that they will never see post processing -- that any post processing is not an option. They should shoot raw because it's better?

The only thing I'm asking for from the video is a more appropriate acknowledgement that SOOC JPEGs exist for darn good reasons and in those cases they're completely appropriate.
But this is my point. I'm not trying to dismiss th... (show quote)

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Apr 11, 2021 15:46:21   #
glennk
 
Bob,

Thanks for the post. I hadn't seen Blake's video (yet). I'm going to take some RAW + JPEG shots and play with results like B did and see how it may impact my processing...

Glenn

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