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Can You Name Five Things That Could Have Effected the Depth of Field In The Attached Image?
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Apr 8, 2021 09:56:21   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
par4fore wrote:
Aperture
Focal length
Distance from camera focus point
Distance from subject to background
Photoshop


You nailed it - sensor size has nothing to do with depth of field - it is wrapped up in aperture, focal length and distances from camera to subject, subject to background, and implied, distance from camera to background. Using a crop sensor camera for a given composition only makes one move back OR use a wider lens, giving the illusion of greater depth of field when compared to the same in a full frame camera.

However, at the same camera to subject distance, aperture and focal length, the crop camera will have LESS depth of field, contrary to the widely held myth that it's the other way around.

What is missing is the way the image is viewed - a small 4"x6" print will be viewed at closer distances and flaws involving focus and detail capture will be more apparent than the same image printed at 40"x60" that is viewed at 10 ft distance. So, because of eyesight limitations, fine detail, focus and noise issues are harder to detect at greater distances, creating the illusion of greater depth of field.

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Apr 8, 2021 10:42:43   #
Photomac Loc: The Dalles, Or
 
Thanks for this erudite discussion. One factor not mentioned generally in creating DOF, is the use of color which is also a factor of atmosphere. Warms for the foreground and blue tones for background. Not related to a setting in camera, but none the less, important adjunct.

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Apr 8, 2021 10:50:53   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Gene51 wrote:
You nailed it - sensor size has nothing to do with depth of field - it is wrapped up in aperture, focal length and distances from camera to subject, subject to background, and implied, distance from camera to background. Using a crop sensor camera for a given composition only makes one move back OR use a wider lens, giving the illusion of greater depth of field when compared to the same in a full frame camera.

However, at the same camera to subject distance, aperture and focal length, the crop camera will have LESS depth of field, contrary to the widely held myth that it's the other way around.

What is missing is the way the image is viewed - a small 4"x6" print will be viewed at closer distances and flaws involving focus and detail capture will be more apparent than the same image printed at 40"x60" that is viewed at 10 ft distance. So, because of eyesight limitations, fine detail, focus and noise issues are harder to detect at greater distances, creating the illusion of greater depth of field.
You nailed it - sensor size has nothing to do with... (show quote)


I think Gene’s point is that the circle of confusion, which is a factor in the DOF equation, is related to more than JUST the camera format. Wiki sums it up very succinctly:

“In photography, the circle of confusion (CoC) is used to determine the depth of field, the part of an image that is acceptably sharp. A standard value of CoC is often associated with each image format, but the most appropriate value depends on visual acuity, viewing conditions, and the amount of enlargement”

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Apr 8, 2021 12:09:58   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
The most important thing to effect the depth of field is the photographer. The other things are controlled by the photographer and that could be the f stop, which will dictate the speed and the ISO and any other change dictates the changes in controls. The other thing that has a depth off field citation, to some degree is the lens focal length. Wider lenses tend to have larger in focus the longer lens and then that con be some what controlled as above.
People do the pictures the camera guesses for you.

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Apr 8, 2021 12:14:31   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
TriX wrote:
I think Gene’s point is that the circle of confusion, which is a factor in the DOF equation, is related to more than JUST the camera format. Wiki sums it up very succinctly:

“In photography, the circle of confusion (CoC) is used to determine the depth of field, the part of an image that is acceptably sharp. A standard value of CoC is often associated with each image format, but the most appropriate value depends on visual acuity, viewing conditions, and the amount of enlargement”


Couldn't have said it better myself -

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Apr 8, 2021 12:48:54   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
It wouldn't have worked for this image, but you can control DOF significantly by using focus stacking and adjusting the aperture and/or number of exposures stacked.

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Apr 8, 2021 15:07:52   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
dpullum wrote:
A bit off-topic regarding this excellent image, but somewhat related to DOF effects found in modern cameras:

My Panasonic TZ100 [and probably now also Canon and Sony] 1" sensor pocket 24/7 super zoom takes multishots "Post-focus" quickly so you can select focus and or combine.

These new modern cameras can also swallow swords, eat fire, and juggle kittens. What will come next?? ... Perhaps, we can stay at home and assign a photo-shoot and our drone will fly our camera there, make decisions, and complete the assignment, fly home and download to our computer which will use AI to peak the shots in post-processing... as we lounge in our reclining chair which also follows voice commands as does our ROKU TV control.

POSTFOCUS: "You can record bursts of photos with the same quality as a 4K photo while automatically changing the focus point ([Post Focus] recording). After recording, you can select a point on the screen to save a picture with that point as the focus point."
A bit off-topic regarding this excellent image, bu... (show quote)


Dear POSTFOCUS...

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Apr 8, 2021 15:12:06   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Shooter41 wrote:
Dear POSTFOCUS...


Dear POSTFOCUS...You appear to be a very well-read, intelligent photographer. Your well considered comments on combining multiple images to create a wider depth of field was one of the elements I listed in my five ways to effect depth of field. I award you with the "Golden Pixel Award," handshake from afar. Shooter41

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Apr 8, 2021 15:20:57   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
TriX wrote:
I think Gene’s point is that the circle of confusion, which is a factor in the DOF equation, is related to more than JUST the camera format. Wiki sums it up very succinctly:

“In photography, the circle of confusion (CoC) is used to determine the depth of field, the part of an image that is acceptably sharp. A standard value of CoC is often associated with each image format, but the most appropriate value depends on visual acuity, viewing conditions, and the amount of enlargement”


They missed the most important contribution to the circle of confusion: the component behind the viewfinder. (As noted by Picture Taker)

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Apr 8, 2021 15:26:43   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
IDguy wrote:
They missed the most important contribution to the circle of confusion: the component behind the viewfinder. (As noted by Picture Taker)


Dear IDguy...Your points made are well taken. I think we are up to about eight different things that can have an effect upon the Depth Of Field of a given image now. Thank you for your contribution.

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Apr 8, 2021 16:03:40   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Gene51 wrote:
You nailed it - sensor size has nothing to do with depth of field - it is wrapped up in aperture, focal length and distances from camera to subject, subject to background, and implied, distance from camera to background. Using a crop sensor camera for a given composition only makes one move back OR use a wider lens, giving the illusion of greater depth of field when compared to the same in a full frame camera.

However, at the same camera to subject distance, aperture and focal length, the crop camera will have LESS depth of field, contrary to the widely held myth that it's the other way around.

What is missing is the way the image is viewed - a small 4"x6" print will be viewed at closer distances and flaws involving focus and detail capture will be more apparent than the same image printed at 40"x60" that is viewed at 10 ft distance. So, because of eyesight limitations, fine detail, focus and noise issues are harder to detect at greater distances, creating the illusion of greater depth of field.
You nailed it - sensor size has nothing to do with... (show quote)


Dear Gene51...

As usual, you hit the ball out of the park. At this point in our friendly discussion, with your help along with other smart persons on UHH, I have made note of twelve things that can effect the illusion of the Depth Of Field in my specific image of the Starling.

(1) Aperature of the lens involved. (2) Focal length of the lens involved. (3) Distance from the camera sensor to the point of focus. (4) Distance from the camera to the background. (5) Whether using a full frame camera or a crop sensor camera. (6) The actual way you view the image. (7) Whether the image is colored or black and white. (8) The amount of enlargement the photographer did. (9) The ISO the image was recorded with. (10) Whether the photographer did focus stacking and changed the point of focus of the original image. (11) The specific photographer behind the view finder.

This discussion has been a lot of fun; taught me a lot, but possibly expanded my "Circle of Confusion!" (TEE HEE)

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Apr 8, 2021 17:03:41   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
IDguy wrote:
They missed the most important contribution to the circle of confusion: the component behind the viewfinder. (As noted by Picture Taker)


You mean like the visual acuity which was mentioned?

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Apr 8, 2021 17:09:15   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Shooter41 wrote:
Dear Gene51...

As usual, you hit the ball out of the park. At this point in our friendly discussion, with your help along with other smart persons on UHH, I have made note of twelve things that can effect the illusion of the Depth Of Field in my specific image of the Starling.

(1) Aperature of the lens involved. (2) Focal length of the lens involved. (3) Distance from the camera sensor to the point of focus. (4) Distance from the camera to the background. (5) Whether using a full frame camera or a crop sensor camera. (6) The actual way you view the image. (7) Whether the image is colored or black and white. (8) The amount of enlargement the photographer did. (9) The ISO the image was recorded with. (10) Whether the photographer did focus stacking and changed the point of focus of the original image. (11) The specific photographer behind the view finder. (12) The eyesight limitations of the viewer.

This discussion has been a lot of fun; taught me a lot, but possibly expanded my "Circle of Confusion!" (TEE HEE)
Dear Gene51... br br As usual, you hit the b... (show quote)

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Apr 8, 2021 21:08:50   #
Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
Shooter41 wrote:
While attempting to learn every way possible to control the Depth Of Field of an image, I took the attached picture of a Starling trying to get access to the beef suet in this bottom only feeder. I think I might have used five things to make the background in this image blurry to make the Starling stand out from the background. Earlier, I read somewhere that there are only three things that can have any effect on the Depth of Field of an image. Can anyone on UHH name five things that they think effects the Depth of Field of an image?
While attempting to learn every way possible to co... (show quote)


My damn cataracts. :( No worries. Surgery on Tuesday! Yay. Camera has had to sit dormant for the most part. I can barely type, post process, see through the viewfinder. Thank goodness for AF!!!

Great question. Thanks for taking the time.

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Apr 9, 2021 00:21:38   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Real Nikon Lover wrote:
My damn cataracts. :( No worries. Surgery on Tuesday! Yay. Camera has had to sit dormant for the most part. I can barely type, post process, see through the viewfinder. Thank goodness for AF!!!

Great question. Thanks for taking the time.


Dear Real Nikon Lover...Good luck on your surgery Tuesday. I had both eyes done about five years ago and it was an amazing improvement in my vision. Hope you can get back to shooting your Nikon soon! Shooter41

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