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High quality Magenta filter vs uniWB? (Bob again)
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Apr 1, 2021 14:08:48   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Beside the 'intermission'.

I have been thinking about your answer. You are correct as the effect will be different depending on the opposite color and a few other things. Setting the magenta bias in the sensor on the other hand might be a different kettle.

To be tested.


There's easier ways to set up unity WB than the method described by Guillermo Luijk.

https://blog.kasson.com/using-in-caera-histograms-for-ettr/8-a-one-step-uniwb-procedure/
https://blog.kasson.com/using-in-caera-histograms-for-ettr/are-there-shortcuts-to-uniwb/

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Apr 1, 2021 14:11:09   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
Which is linked from the first article using the term "expose to the right."

Maybe one of you would like to address the use of UniWB based on your own knowledge and experience, if you have any.

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Apr 1, 2021 14:19:43   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
There's easier ways to set up unity WB than the method described by Guillermo Luijk.

https://blog.kasson.com/using-in-caera-histograms-for-ettr/8-a-one-step-uniwb-procedure/

I'm afraid you just went way over the OP's head with that one.

Why not try something simpler like looking for the UniWB settings for your own camera model determined by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Then you can address the questions I have been asking all along.

When is ETTR really necessary? If so, how does UniWB make it any easier to use ETTR?

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Apr 1, 2021 14:40:18   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 

I know how to create, setup and use uniWB. I had some issues with the Nikon D850 and D500 but that is solved now. Bob gave me the key to the kingdom a little more than two years ago.

I have been looking at colors in depth, and I am wondering if using Magenta is not a better or at least equivalent solution than using green. Magenta controls the green so...

Green uniWB adds the second G to gain a better histogram (green) and Magenta removes the second G also creating a better histogram. That is what I am thinking anyway.

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Apr 1, 2021 16:13:56   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
I know how to create, setup and use uniWB. I had some issues with the Nikon D850 and D500 but that is solved now. ...

So you know how to set up UniWB in your camera.

I looked at Kasson's "one-step" process and I can understand why you would shy away from it. It's not simple and it is certainly not a one-step procedure.

Kasson failed to mention that that all three images must be exposed with the same manual exposure settings otherwise the raw stuff won't line up.

For anyone in a masochistic frame of mind here are the three target images.

You still can't explain how UniWB is any better than spot metering the highlights like Bob does. It's certainly not easier.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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Apr 1, 2021 16:41:43   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You are engaging with someone who has no clue and just likes to read himself. Most folks have given up him. I have long done so long ago.


Scotty has yet to realize that there are many of us that (a) know how to and why we use ETTR, (b) have an in depth understanding of digitizing and DR, and (c) don’t enjoy or are interested in wasting time with an ENDLESS argument. Count me among them - I no longer respond.

A civil and friendly technical discussion is interesting/welcome up to a point, but it can become boorish when carried on ad infinitum and one participant is sure they have ALL the answers and nothing to learn from others, especially those that have the credentials and/or body of work to demonstrate their expertise.

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Apr 1, 2021 16:45:41   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
RGG, the idea of uniwb places a uniqueness on each camera. There is no "standard" WB setting that will work across the board. Using a filter, such as you suggest, will not provide the unique settings required on a per camera basis.
--Bob
Rongnongno wrote:
Difference?

Magenta filter reduces the green and equalize RGB toward a unitary value app.
uniWB equalize RGBG to 1.

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Apr 1, 2021 16:47:13   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 

--Bob
TriX wrote:
Scotty has yet to realize that there are many of us that (a) know how to and why we use ETTR, (b) have an in depth understanding of digitizing and DR, and (c) don’t enjoy or are interested in wasting time with an ENDLESS argument. Count me among them - I no longer respond.

A civil and friendly technical discussion is interesting/welcome up to a point, but it can become boorish when carried on ad infinitum and one participant is sure they have ALL the answers and nothing to learn from others, especially those that have the credentials and/or body of work to demonstrate their expertise.
Scotty has yet to realize that there are many of u... (show quote)

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Apr 1, 2021 16:54:07   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
rmalarz wrote:
RGG, the idea of uniwb places a uniqueness on each camera. There is no "standard" WB setting that will work across the board. Using a filter, such as you suggest, will not provide the unique settings required on a per camera basis.
--Bob

In camera custom WB...

I have been looking at colors in depth, and I am wondering if using Magenta is not a better or at least equivalent solution than using green. Magenta controls the green so...

Green uniWB adds the second G to gain a better histogram (green) R=G=B=G=1
and Magenta removes the second G also creating a better histogram. That is what I am thinking anyway. R=1, G=.5, B=1 G=.5 so R=G+G=B=1, no green or Magenta tint.

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Apr 1, 2021 17:49:17   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
TriX wrote:
Scotty has yet to realize that there are many of us that (a) know how to and why we use ETTR, (b) have an in depth understanding of digitizing and DR, and (c) don’t enjoy or are interested in wasting time with an ENDLESS argument. Count me among them - I no longer respond. ....

You are missing the point.

I know that many of us know how to use ETTR including Bob. But that's not really what I am talking about.

The question here is UniWB and whether it is any better than simply using the camera's spot meter, like Bob does, or by using the Blinkies and Zebras as most of us do or even watching the JPEG histograms which is what many consider to be the way to determine if an exposure is to the right or not.

What I am ribbing both Bob and RGG about is the futility of using UniWB in the pursuit of ETTR. It just does not add any value. It just not any better than the other methods.

I'm just taking the mick out of them because they are taking themselves too seriously

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Apr 1, 2021 18:13:39   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
selmslie wrote:
.../...

You are too feeble-minded to even grasp that not one cares about your deluded repetitive attempts.

The only thing you have achieved is to raise the contempt from those who have tried to interact with you.

Only insane folks try again and again the same thing with the same result. Your posts over the years are always the same, display the same short-sightedness and utter lack of breaking out of your circular reasoning.

This is all you will get from me.

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Apr 1, 2021 18:25:14   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You are too feeble-minded to even grasp that not one cares about your deluded repetitive attempts.

The only thing you have achieved is to raise the contempt from those who have tried to interact with you.

Only insane folks try again and again the same thing with the same result. Your posts over the years are always the same, display the same short-sightedness and utter lack of breaking out of your circular reasoning.

This is all you will get from me.

I think you can see that I have been respectful an not lost control of my emotions during this discussion.

That’s more than I can say about your responses.

If you really want to learn how all of this works you need to look at the raw files. I can lead you to the water but I can’t make you drink it.

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Apr 1, 2021 18:30:03   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Bob and all other middy interested in this weird idea can find a recreated discussion in the uHH forum where some folks are simply banned.

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Apr 1, 2021 18:32:47   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Bob and all other middy interested in this weird idea can find a recreated discussion in the uHH forum where some folks are simply banned.

Next time you have a question for Bob, send him a PM. That way you won’t make a spectacle of yourself.

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Apr 2, 2021 07:53:56   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Bob and all other middy interested in this weird idea can find a recreated discussion in the uHH forum where some folks are simply banned.


There are several; which one did you have in mind?

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