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Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)
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Mar 31, 2021 08:13:09   #
akamerica
 
I am trying to solve my leadership "problems:"
I have on my computer drives - primary and backup - just over 65,000 pictures digitized from slides, prints, and progressive Nikon cameras to my current D850. (This compendium includes my grade school graduation.)
Admittedly I am an amateur with expensive equipment.
Current subscriber with Adobe Bridge, Lightroom, and Photoshop.
To save coping space in my brain that is somewhat fragmented I avoid having to create an app managed Catalog (required by Adobe) that adds a additional layer of worry and management. No way I am going to import 65,000 pictures and hope for the best. I understand this is necessary to maintain a "sidecar?" with the non-destructive edits of my JPG and RAW pictures.
I have limited myself to Adobe Raw for 99.9% post process.
My file organization is simple i.e. 2021-03-31 Trooper Dog at the Doggie Beach.
Making "destructive" edits to my RAW pictures is not a problem and to me a positive as I know that is the way they will present when copy pasted or viewed off my computer without the bother of exporting.
I have but not yet gotten into: NX Studio; Helicon Focus; Luminar AI Topaz DeNoise AI all waiting on free time from my way too busy retired status. (The problem expands to fill the time available to solve it.)

So, kind fellows I seek your suggestions for an editing program that does not require a catalog, makes destructive edits, and has an easy to follow workflow, and a readable layout that does not require squinting.

Thanks in advance. Art in SW Florida

Mar 31, 2021 08:18:34   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA
 
I don't use a cataloger either.
Windows Explorer is my "catalog".

Mar 31, 2021 08:20:19   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Determine if Catalog has an undo function to restore everything back to the original status. Then, as insurance, you could back up your collection before trying Catalog.
akamerica wrote:
I am trying to.
My leadership "problems:"
I have on my computer drives - primary and backup - just over 65,000 pictures digitized from slides, prints, and progressive Nikon cameras to my current D850.
Admittedly I am an amateur with expensive equipment.
Current subscriber with Adobe Bridge, Lightroom, and Photoshop.
To save coping space in my brain that is somewhat fragmented I avoid creating an app managed Catalog required by Adobe that adds a additional layer of worry and management. No way I am going to import 65,000 pictures and hope for the best.
I am trying to. br My leadership "problems:&q... (show quote)

 
 
Mar 31, 2021 08:20:23   #
Robg
 
What is your goal for having the Adobe software? What do you want to do with it?

Mar 31, 2021 08:29:33   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
For what it is worth, i've done exactly the same thing for 13 years now. Adobe is flexible enough to accommodate different workflows.

However, those edits in ACR are nondistructive.

Mar 31, 2021 09:13:59   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
akamerica wrote:
I am trying to.
My leadership "problems:"
I have on my computer drives - primary and backup - just over 65,000 pictures digitized from slides, prints, and progressive Nikon cameras to my current D850. (This compendium includes my grade school graduation.)
Admittedly I am an amateur with expensive equipment.
Current subscriber with Adobe Bridge, Lightroom, and Photoshop.
To save coping space in my brain that is somewhat fragmented I avoid creating an app managed Catalog required by Adobe that adds a additional layer of worry and management. No way I am going to import 65,000 pictures and hope for the best. I understand this is necessary to maintain a "sidecar?" with the non-destructive edits of my JPG and RAW pictures. I have limited myself to Adobe Raw for 99.9% post process.
My file organization is simple i.e. 2021-03-31 Trooper Dog at the Doggie Beach.
Making "destructive" edits to my RAW pictures is not a problem and to me a positive as I know that is the way they will present when copy pasted or viewed off my computer.
I am trying to. br My leadership "problems:&q... (show quote)


No such thing as destructive edits on raw files in raw converters. Even if you are editing a raster file (jpeg, psd, tiff, png), the original file is left intact, and only the exported file will have your new edits. In Lightroom, the raw and raster edits are stored in the catalog's preview database. Additionally you can set LR to store the edits in an xmp (sidecar) file. It is not automatic - by default the writing of metadata changes to xmp is not turned on.

The catalog is what sets LR apart from most other applications - it's implementation is flawless. The problem most people have with it is that it the try to approach it as if it were a file browser - like Bridge - which it is not.

Now, even creating a catalog and importing your existing images using the "Add" mode will leave all of your images in their current places, and only "add" them to the catalog. Therefore, as far as Bridge, ACR and anything else you want to use to edit your images - nothing has changed.

When you edit an image in LR, you are editing the preview image (or a copy of the raster image), you are not editing the original. If you are in LR and you have the subscription, when you use the Edit In command, it will create a duplicate raster image in the format of your choosing - and pass it along to Photoshop as a raster file AND add the raster file to the catalog. When you finish your editing of the raster file and save the changes in PS, the version of the raster file is updated in the catalog.

I know that by this point this all sounds daunting, but it really isn't.

My folder and file naming is a little more informative for those situations were I use other applications to edit the files.

I have a parent folder named Pics
Beneath it their is a list of folders that are organized by year.
Beneath each year there is a collection of folders that look like the following:

01.01 - small birds at the park - 01-05-21 This would be the folder name for the first time in January I took the camera out, what I shot, and the actual date. The first four numbers is an index of sorts that shows me the folder list for year in the sequence I took them.

Now, once you start using the LR catalog, you'll discover the one-to-many/many-to-one relationships you can set up with collections. I might have taken a picture of a Great Blue Heron on 1/5/21, but I have a virtual collection called waders, where I have all sorts of birds, including herons, egrets, cranes, storks etc. I have other collection of just herons, just egrets, just cranes, etc - so my GBH is part of the wader collection, but it is also part of the heron collection - without needing to create and manage any duplicate files.

These are just a couple of examples of how LR's catalog helps to organize things and ensure that you don't accidentally delete things.

If you decide to go down this path, keep one thing in mind. You are editing previews, not actual files, and these previews are based on where LR found them when it imported them. If you drop into Finder (on a Mac) or Windows Explorer and move things around, LR will not be able to find the moved/added/deleted files. So you'll need to update LR by opening the moved/deleted/added folder or folder containing the moved/deleted/added files, right click on the folder(s) or file(s) and select Find Missing Folder or Files - and everything will be back in sync.

You have absolutely nothing to worry about once you figure it out and start using it. Turn on automatically write changes to xmp in Catalog Settings (Ctrl+Alt+,), Metadata tab, so that if you decide to stop using LR for cataloging at least your raw file changes will be in the sidecar file. Changes to raster files will be in the duplicate created when you exported the raster file to disk.

If you don't have a headache after reading this you are a better person than I am. And I wrote it.

Mar 31, 2021 10:29:55   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
What is the simple approach? Using the Adobe software in the intended methods these industrial-grade and market defining tools were created.

What is the smart approach? Using the Adobe software in the intended methods these industrial-grade and market defining tools were created.

What would the simple and smartest approach? Import your images into the LR catalog, set the LR software to maintain XMP sidecar files and manage your images in the LR catalog leveraging keywords and entirely virtual Collections. Whether you edit entirely in LR, entirely in PS or between both, there Adobe gives you complete flexibility to decide how you want to do it.

What violates a KISS approach? Subscribing to industrial-grade software and then seeking to work around all the best features of the tool.

 
 
Mar 31, 2021 10:57:20   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
What is the simple approach? Using the Adobe software in the intended methods these industrial-grade and market defining tools were created.

What is the smart approach? Using the Adobe software in the intended methods these industrial-grade and market defining tools were created.

What would the simple and smartest approach? Import your images into the LR catalog, set the LR software to maintain XMP sidecar files and manage your images in the LR catalog leveraging the keyword and entirely virtual Collections. Whether you edit entirely in LR, entirely in PS or between both, there Adobe gives you complete flexibility to decide how you want to do it.

What violates a KISS approach? Subscribing to industrial-grade software and then seeking to work around all the best features of the tool.
What is the simple approach? Using the Adobe softw... (show quote)



Mar 31, 2021 10:58:01   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
Deleted

Mar 31, 2021 20:05:13   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
It sounds like you have a fear that somehow letting Lightroom Classic catalog your files is going to damage or hide your files in some manner. So first let us back up and dispel that myth.

Some quick truths: When you import into LrC gives YOU the option of organizing your files based on the metadata already present in your files. BUT you also can ADD them to a catalog and leave the exactly where they are. After Import LrC will never move or modify your current files or file structure unless you tell it to do so or allow it to modify the metadata in those files. So you can test drive LrC at no risk to your current originals. If you give up on it you can walk away and pretend you never tries. If you export your finished processing to before you go you will save the work you have done.

That said, I cannot imagine dealing with 6,500 pictures or even 650 without the searching/sorting capabilities of a database like LrC. Using Explorer or Finder to locate a particular picture is slow and tedious with small previews and no access to metadata like keywords. But a real bummer is lacking the ability to put a single picture in multiple folders. With the use of collections which look like folders but store small pointers to physical files rather than large copies of pictures one can mimic several hierarchies independent of the folder structure.

My KISS recommendations are to keep the your file structure simple and then leave it alone. Going forward I would import them into a year/month/date/file name based on the date shot and then add images to collections based on whatever structures you find useful. BTW you and use the structure you have now leaving it in place and mirroring the physical structure with collections. No need to try to revise it. The reason for the simple file structure is to avoid the temptation to revise it which lead to greif. Also that structure allows you to easily move the to different drives to off load them to external drives and to back them up by date.

Apr 1, 2021 06:37:29   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
akamerica wrote:
I am trying to solve my leadership "problems:"
I have on my computer drives - primary and backup - just over 65,000 pictures digitized from slides, prints, and progressive Nikon cameras to my current D850. (This compendium includes my grade school graduation.)
Admittedly I am an amateur with expensive equipment.
Current subscriber with Adobe Bridge, Lightroom, and Photoshop.
To save coping space in my brain that is somewhat fragmented I avoid having to create an app managed Catalog (required by Adobe) that adds a additional layer of worry and management. No way I am going to import 65,000 pictures and hope for the best. I understand this is necessary to maintain a "sidecar?" with the non-destructive edits of my JPG and RAW pictures.
I have limited myself to Adobe Raw for 99.9% post process.
My file organization is simple i.e. 2021-03-31 Trooper Dog at the Doggie Beach.
Making "destructive" edits to my RAW pictures is not a problem and to me a positive as I know that is the way they will present when copy pasted or viewed off my computer without the bother of exporting.
I have but not yet gotten into: NX Studio; Helicon Focus; Luminar AI Topaz DeNoise AI all waiting on free time from my way too busy retired status. (The problem expands to fill the time available to solve it.)

So, kind fellows I seek your suggestions for an editing program that does not require a catalog, makes destructive edits, and has an easy to follow workflow, and a readable layout that does not require squinting.

Thanks in advance. Art in SW Florida
I am trying to solve my leadership "problems:... (show quote)


I would try YouTube. The solution if offered would be easier to visualize.

 
 
Apr 1, 2021 07:11:22   #
tcthome Loc: Keansburg , NJ
 
.

If you don't have a headache after reading this you are a better person than I am. And I wrote it. [/quote]

This would of taken me all day to type. Nice work.

Apr 1, 2021 07:15:24   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
akamerica wrote:
So, kind fellows I seek your suggestions for an editing program that does not require a catalog, makes destructive edits, and has an easy to follow workflow, and a readable layout that does not require squinting.


The main thing I don't like about LR is the cataloging. I want to be able to move things around in Windows without have to get permission from LR. As far as I'm concerned, that's a major flaw.

Destructive edits seem like a non-concern because I always save the processed image with a different name, so the original image remains unchanged. There are many programs to choose from, and once you learn the work flow, and program is easy.

Affinity
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/software-review-affinity-photo-1-5-2
http://www.shutterbug.com/content/affinity-photo-software-review-has-photoshop-met-its-match#d1c5lY5EQ03QoLjh.97
http://www.diyphotography.net/affinity-photo-can-give-adobe-run-money/
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/affinity-photo-1.5,review-4257.html

Others
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-lightroom-alternatives
http://digital-photography-school.com/a-beginners-guide-to-choosing-the-right-post-production-software/
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/photo-editing
https://www.reviews.com/photo-editing-software/
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-photo-editing-software,review-1972.html
http://www.redmondpie.com/best-adobe-photoshop-alternatives-for-windows-and-mac-list Affinity
http://www.shutterbug.com/content/affinity-photo-software-review-has-photoshop-met-its-match#d1c5lY5EQ03QoLjh.97
http://www.diyphotography.net/affinity-photo-can-give-adobe-run-money/
https://photographypro.com/photo-editing/

Apr 1, 2021 07:18:18   #
tcthome Loc: Keansburg , NJ
 
If you don't want to take the advice already given to you, you can import only what you want to edit . The photo would still reside in the same location you imported it from. And if you would feel better , you could just export it as a tiff file if you think you might edit again at a later date & possibly use a different software. If you are just going to view it digitally , you can export it as a jpeg. Either way, I hope you have at least one copy residing someplace other than your computer. Good luck.

Apr 1, 2021 07:36:37   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 


When you understand LR maintains an absolute address to an image, you understand how you can move your images around outside LR, if determined to do it yourself. If you live at 123 Main St, that's where LR records your address. If you move to 9922 Broadway Ave, the OS doesn't leave a "forwarding address" at your old address at 123 Main. Nor does the OS automatically file a "change of address" to LR when you skedaddle in the middle of the night from Main to your new digs on Broadway.

If you let LR handle the move, that new address on Broadway is recorded into the LR catalog, replacing the old 123 Main St value. Or, you can handle the move yourself in the OS and then update the catalog manually, telling LR you and your image now live on Broadway. I do the latter all the time, because I understand the issue and the corrective actions.

The LR catalog also eliminates the copies of copies approach. The brilliance of eliminating 'copies of copies' should be immediately self-evident.

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