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Farewell to SLRs
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Feb 24, 2021 05:13:24   #
User ID
 
It’s most curious that so many who scoff at the widespread shift to fully live view cameras will tend to point out that they haven’t yet seen any significant gains in image quality from live view systems as compared to SLRs. Is this ordinary short sightedness or is it an intentional classic straw man thing ? I haven’t yet heard of anyone adopting live view primarily for its image quality.

Feb 24, 2021 05:37:23   #
Wallen
 
My personal opinion; There is really nothing electronically speaking that a mirrorless can do which can not be applied to the live view of a DSLR.
Manufacturers are just churning things for higher sales and cheaper production.

Feb 24, 2021 05:56:41   #
User ID
 
Wallen wrote:
My personal opinion; There is really nothing electronically speaking that a mirrorless can do which can not be applied to the live view of a DSLR.
Manufacturers are just churning things for higher sales and cheaper production.

Not letting the marketing department sell you something you really don’t need ? I’ll admit to having gear I don’t need. None of it is top shelf, so it’s not boosting my status before my peers either. It wasn’t even the latest tech when acquired, so not it’s about buckling under to hype and gassy marketeering.

””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

But yet I have gear I don’t really need ... although thaz not saying it’s not seeing regular use. But *need* ? Not need. I already had serviceable gear. My latest unneeded adoption is actually an SLR, and it’s not for sports or bifs. Also NOT for nostalgia :-)

 
 
Feb 24, 2021 06:15:44   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Wallen wrote:
My personal opinion; There is really nothing electronically speaking that a mirrorless can do which can not be applied to the live view of a DSLR.
Manufacturers are just churning things for higher sales and cheaper production.


If dedicated DSLR owners changed to EVF, they might miss the "clunk, click every trip" which goes with mirror-slap.

Feb 24, 2021 06:17:11   #
dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida
 
I love my superzoom 1" sensor cameras vs my DSLR, many do based on the weight of DSLR and Mirror cameras. Add to that, the cost of glass and it pushes toward the Superzooms.

We must remember that image quality while desirable is lower on the totem compared to composition and storytelling.

You will know the end of the big cameras has come when they are in the checkout isle of Walmart ... As Seen on TV

Feb 24, 2021 06:20:32   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
User ID wrote:
It’s most curious that so many who scoff at the widespread shift to fully live view cameras will tend to point out that they haven’t yet seen any significant gains in image quality from live view systems as compared to SLRs. Is this ordinary short sightedness or is it an intentional classic straw man thing ? I haven’t yet heard of anyone adopting live view primarily for its image quality.


It's an interesting question.

Conventional DSLRs rely on two methods for focusing - PDAF which is faster, but less accurate, and CDAF which is dead accurate, but lacks the performance. PDAF uses an optical viewfinder, CDAF uses Live View. CDAF has the advantage of showing light levels, overexposure, and histograms in real time BEFORE the shutter button is pressed, PDAF provides the same info but only after the image is recorded. CDAF cameras have undergone considerable in the autofocus area - there are many mirrorless cameras that seriously outperform DSLRs - Olympus, Canon, Sony etc all have blindingly fast and accurate AF, and sensitive enough to function in really low light. Another advantage seems to be higher AF point count - the most recent Sony A7R4 features hybrid AF - with 567 point focal plane PDAF adn 425 point CDAF. Without a mechanical system to move a mirror out of the light path to the sensor and fully electronic shutters, fast frame rates are possible. Of course, battery life on live-view only cameras tends to be 25% to 50% of what is possible with standard batteries on a DSLR.

So, I agree with you that in general usage, no one is likely to be able to tell the difference in a picture taken with a DSLR vs a Mirrorless camera - but some of the tech involved in mirrorless cameras might provide capture for some images that a DSLR might miss with its slower, less accurate focusing.

Using a DSLR in Live View mode for active subjects while possible is really not practical.

I am still on the fence - but recent improvements in electronic shutters - specifically addressing the "rolling shutter" issue - when completely addressed, will likely win me over.

Feb 24, 2021 06:35:40   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
User ID wrote:
It’s most curious that so many who scoff at the widespread shift to fully live view cameras will tend to point out that they haven’t yet seen any significant gains in image quality from live view systems as compared to SLRs. Is this ordinary short sightedness or is it an intentional classic straw man thing ? I haven’t yet heard of anyone adopting live view primarily for its image quality.


Live view is a term usually used when the rear screen is used for viewing. Mirrorless is a term used for mirrorless camera's. I am sure you are referring to mirrorless camera's?
I currently own both DSLR's and mirrorless camera's, the biggest advantages of mirrorless are that I can see exactly what the exposure is going to be BEFORE I trip the shutter, I no longer need to FINE TURN any lens, and I can shoot at 20 frames a second and soon 30 frames per second.
As far as image quality goes, yes, you can get outstanding image quality from either. Though image quality is more a function of the photographer than the camera.

 
 
Feb 24, 2021 06:39:31   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I'm not dedicated to any particular form of camera, nor noise they make. I've been shooting mirrorless since 1969, or earlier perhaps 1953. That along with *SLR cameras. It's the choice of the appropriate tool for what I need.
--Bob
Delderby wrote:
If dedicated DSLR owners changed to EVF, they might miss the "clunk, click every trip" which goes with mirror-slap.

Feb 24, 2021 06:54:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
One can sooner stop the sun from rising than deny the arrival of mirrorless cameras.

Feb 24, 2021 07:13:58   #
larryepage
 
User ID wrote:
It’s most curious that so many who scoff at the widespread shift to fully live view cameras will tend to point out that they haven’t yet seen any significant gains in image quality from live view systems as compared to SLRs. Is this ordinary short sightedness or is it an intentional classic straw man thing ? I haven’t yet heard of anyone adopting live view primarily for its image quality.


No. I think it's just the idiotic notion that as soon as a new version of something is introduced, all the versions that came before are suddenly worthless garbage.

Here is a non-photographic example. In May of 2019, I bought a new vehicle made by an American manufacturer. Of course, my inbox was immediately flooded with emails from them about all sorts of things. The goal was to make sure I felt good about spending all that money. Before long, the tone of those emails shifted to trying to convince me to "trade up" to the "redesigned" 2020 version of the same model in order to experience all the advantages it offers. Are there improvements? Possibly, although none that are obvious to me. What is true is that the 2020 model is significantly smaller. This is a big deal, because the 2019 is just barely big enough.

So as far as I can tell, the only ones who would benefit if I did trade would be the manufacturer and the dealer. Not interested.

Cameras are exactly the same. There are probably some photographers who would benefit from the switch. There are probably more who have the illusion that they would benefit. My own sense of reality tells me I am fine staying where I am and either hanging on to my money or using it for something else.

Let's face it. Most "photographers" need a lot more than a new camera to improve. Personally, I need vision that is not declining because of glaucoma. Some on this site need expanded imagination. Some need a better realization of what might be interesting to others. Some need a better understanding of basic principles. Some do need a camera that is easier to use and to apply those fundamentals. Very few really have a specific need to get rid of a mirror.

Feb 24, 2021 07:18:27   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
One can sooner stop the sun from rising than deny the arrival of mirrorless cameras.


Well to test that, I will try in order from least difficult to most difficult.
As soon as I stop the sun from rising, I will report back with my plans to stop the mirrorless camera.
......
DAMN! That thing is hot! Maybe I need oven mitts!
OK. This afternoon I will run to BB&B for some kick-a** mitts! I will try again tomorrow morning.
Please stay tuned.

 
 
Feb 24, 2021 07:22:47   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
There is only you and your camera. Could it be the mirror that is the weakest link in the chain?

Feb 24, 2021 07:32:44   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
There is only you and your camera. Could it be the mirror that is the weakest link in the chain?


YEAH! I will blame all my crappy shots on the mirror! Thank you for this! Wait until I tell my wife that she is not really that fat, it is just the camera mirror screwing up the picture!
YEAH! We will see who gets slapped, the mirror or me!

Feb 24, 2021 07:33:49   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
One can sooner stop the sun from rising than deny the arrival of mirrorless cameras.


Your quote is about 100+ years late.

Feb 24, 2021 07:50:36   #
hj Loc: Florida
 
dpullum wrote:
I love my superzoom 1" sensor cameras vs my DSLR, many do based on the weight of DSLR and Mirror cameras. Add to that, the cost of glass and it pushes toward the Superzooms.

We must remember that image quality while desirable is lower on the totem compared to composition and storytelling.

You will know the end of the big cameras has come when they are in the checkout isle of Walmart ... As Seen on TV


Tell us what 1" sensor superzoom camera you are using. Thanks.

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