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Mirrorless Camera or DSLR
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Feb 18, 2021 14:41:51   #
rondmallett Loc: Colorado, near Wyoming
 
I see a smallish trend in UHI to technical performance over creativity.
Ansel Adams built his own boxes, and would still be a trend-setter
were he to use an old Brownie. More than one person has said to me,
you sure must have a nice camera to get those great shots.
I started with an old one-sheet, one-shot Graflex, but still got pro
quality shots published in the Denver Post (for whom I wrote and clicked).
It's the artists eyes and skills that count... not so much the machine.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 14:52:46   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
MadMikeOne wrote:
Interesting observations. I've only just begun to seriously consider going mirrorless via Nikon (I'm a died-in-the-wool Nikon gal), and two of your observations as to the con's of mirrorless are what most concern me. I've been doing lots of on-line research, and those are the 2 negatives that keep pulling me back. I understand there is a black-out period between shots, and I think that that would be problematic for me since my main subjects are wildlife, birds, and BIF. I couple of weeks, I'll be out on a workshop with an award-winning professional wildlife photographer who has very recently switched to mirrorless (the Nikon Z6 ii, I believe), and he has kindly offered to swap my D500 for his mirrorless so I can get some hands-on with him by my side to walk/talk me through my concerns.
Interesting observations. I've only just begun to ... (show quote)


Wait a minute, there is NO blackout with mirrorless cameras! Use the electronic shutter and there is no shutter shock or mirror shock (no mirror to shock) or noise, either. Look at the Sony A9 II or A1 if you are concerned about finder latency.

I am an ex-Nikon, ex-Canon user of Panasonic Lumix Micro 4/3 gear, solely because it took those brands almost ten years to get up to speed on serious mirrorless systems. I kept waiting, and gave up in 2015.

I'm not missing a thing about Canikon, but then, I have very specific applications that the Lumix GH4 handles without issues. (I don't photograph sports and wildlife, and the largest prints I make are usually 20x16.)

Lumix gear is my favorite for hybrid use (stills plus video in the same body). Many of my needs include both video and stills of the same content. Panasonic Lumix now make four full frame bodies and share the Leica L-Mount lens system with Leica and Sigma, in addition to sharing the Micro 4/3 system with Olympus and many third parties.

Mirrorless is not for everyone, just yet, but it is the future of advanced photography. There are too many advantages to ignore, and the disadvantages are fading away quickly with each new generation of cameras.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 14:57:15   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
MadMikeOne wrote:
Interesting observations. I've only just begun to seriously consider going mirrorless via Nikon (I'm a died-in-the-wool Nikon gal), and two of your observations as to the con's of mirrorless are what most concern me. I've been doing lots of on-line research, and those are the 2 negatives that keep pulling me back. I understand there is a black-out period between shots, and I think that that would be problematic for me since my main subjects are wildlife, birds, and BIF. I couple of weeks, I'll be out on a workshop with an award-winning professional wildlife photographer who has very recently switched to mirrorless (the Nikon Z6 ii, I believe), and he has kindly offered to swap my D500 for his mirrorless so I can get some hands-on with him by my side to walk/talk me through my concerns.
Interesting observations. I've only just begun to ... (show quote)


The blackout problem is no different than the blackout problem with an SLR. You don't see anything through an OVF when the mirror lifts up. So you're already used to that. Mirrorless blackout is the same time length -- the exposure, and maybe a smidge less as the camera electronics probably recover a little faster than the time the mirror takes to reset. I have a Z7 and the blackout is barely noticeable.

One of my dislikes concerning the EVF is usually rated as a plus by most people; in the EVF you're seeing a software processed image. I'd rather see what I'm photographing without any interpretation from anybody. I do like the fact that the EVF gives me a live histogram before I take the photo. Because I use a number of manually focused lenses I really like the magnification focus assist. Overall I'm still glad I made the switch.

Buy extra batteries and keep them charged.

Reply
 
 
Feb 18, 2021 15:12:25   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
rondmallett wrote:
I see a smallish trend in UHI to technical performance over creativity.
Ansel Adams built his own boxes, and would still be a trend-setter
were he to use an old Brownie. More than one person has said to me,
you sure must have a nice camera to get those great shots.
I started with an old one-sheet, one-shot Graflex, but still got pro
quality shots published in the Denver Post (for whom I wrote and clicked).
It's the artists eyes and skills that count... not so much the machine.


I get so tired of this _______________ response.

The question is about the tech. It's OK to look at the tech and ask how well it supports doing our work. Take a look at this guy's photographs (Kristofer Rowe): https://www.google.com/search?q=kristofer+rowe+photography&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjj6YzLnPTuAhWBE80KHXFLCfsQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Kristofer+rowe&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgBMgIIADIECAAQGDIECAAQGDoGCAAQBxAeUIlVWM5aYN5xaABwAHgAgAFOiAHsApIBATWYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=WscuYOPUGIGntAbxlqXYDw&bih=958&biw=1773&client=opera#imgrc=RkbWSeQ1WFItaM

Now break out your single shot Graflex and show us how well you can capture a fishing Osprey.

Kris manages his amazing photos not only because of his skill and perseverance but also because of the amazing assist he now gets from modern phase detect auto-focus systems. Before that hardware existed photos like his were extremely rare and nobody shot them with a bleep bleepin' Graflex. Having the right tool does matter.

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Feb 18, 2021 15:23:44   #
Capn_Dave
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
The OP DID say they "researched BOTH" so, don't you think "First off why don't you look at reviews? A blind hog can find an acorn once in awhile " is a bit harsh?


You do realize I was replying to billnikon's post and not Barbara the OP. Note your quote above. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Also billnikon threw in Sony the OP (Barbara) did not mention Sony.

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Feb 18, 2021 15:35:20   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
A good photograph has the most pixels.
A good photographer has a mirrorless camera.

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Feb 18, 2021 15:38:00   #
Capn_Dave
 
Ysarex wrote:
The blackout problem is no different than the blackout problem with an SLR. You don't see anything through an OVF when the mirror lifts up. So you're already used to that. Mirrorless blackout is the same time length -- the exposure, and maybe a smidge less as the camera electronics probably recover a little faster than the time the mirror takes to reset. I have a Z7 and the blackout is barely noticeable.

One of my dislikes concerning the EVF is usually rated as a plus by most people; in the EVF you're seeing a software processed image. I'd rather see what I'm photographing without any interpretation from anybody. I do like the fact that the EVF gives me a live histogram before I take the photo. Because I use a number of manually focused lenses I really like the magnification focus assist. Overall I'm still glad I made the switch.

Buy extra batteries and keep them charged.
The blackout problem is no different than the blac... (show quote)


You do realize there is no mirror to flip up. Probably why they are called mirrorless. The Canons have two shutters an electronic one and a horizontal one. While looking through the EVF (Electronic View Finder) ther is no black out. You will also notice there is no DOF (Depth of Field) button when you look through the EVF, you see what the camera sees, including the exposure. Another nice feature. I had a camera with an EVF a number of years ago, the Sony Mavica, it was no camera for any experienced photographer. In fact it turned me off of digital cameras for a long time. As tech improved so did the cameras.

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Feb 18, 2021 16:16:29   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
Capn_Dave wrote:
You do realize I was replying to billnikon's post and not Barbara the OP. Note your quote above. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Also billnikon threw in Sony the OP (Barbara) did not mention Sony.


Nope, didn't see that. I apologize.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 16:41:48   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
A good photograph has the most pixels.
A good photographer has a mirrorless camera.


No, the BEST Photographer has a Mirrorless camera, HUGE grin!!!
I am living proof that you can't buy a great photo.. . sigh.
Ya just gotta . . .
Smile,
JimmyT Sends

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Feb 18, 2021 16:43:40   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Capn_Dave wrote:
You do realize there is no mirror to flip up.

Yep, I have five of them and there's no mirror in any of them.
And of course I didn't say there was now did I.
Capn_Dave wrote:
Probably why they are called mirrorless. The Canons have two shutters an electronic one and a horizontal one. While looking through the EVF (Electronic View Finder) ther is no black out.

The person I responded to is looking specifically at a Nikon and I have a Z7. My Z7 blacks out with every exposure when the mechanical shutter is used.
Capn_Dave wrote:
You will also notice there is no DOF (Depth of Field) button when you look through the EVF, you see what the camera sees, including the exposure. Another nice feature.

Or not. That's one of the main reasons I don't like the EVFs.
Capn_Dave wrote:
I had a camera with an EVF a number of years ago, the Sony Mavica, it was no camera for any experienced photographer. In fact it turned me off of digital cameras for a long time. As tech improved so did the cameras.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 17:06:11   #
MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City
 
burkphoto wrote:
Wait a minute, there is NO blackout with mirrorless cameras! Use the electronic shutter and there is no shutter shock or mirror shock (no mirror to shock) or noise, either. Look at the Sony A9 II or A1 if you are concerned about finder latency.

I am an ex-Nikon, ex-Canon user of Panasonic Lumix Micro 4/3 gear, solely because it took those brands almost ten years to get up to speed on serious mirrorless systems. I kept waiting, and gave up in 2015.

I'm not missing a thing about Canikon, but then, I have very specific applications that the Lumix GH4 handles without issues. (I don't photograph sports and wildlife, and the largest prints I make are usually 20x16.)

Lumix gear is my favorite for hybrid use (stills plus video in the same body). Many of my needs include both video and stills of the same content. Panasonic Lumix now make four full frame bodies and share the Leica L-Mount lens system with Leica and Sigma, in addition to sharing the Micro 4/3 system with Olympus and many third parties.

Mirrorless is not for everyone, just yet, but it is the future of advanced photography. There are too many advantages to ignore, and the disadvantages are fading away quickly with each new generation of cameras.
Wait a minute, there is NO blackout with mirrorles... (show quote)


Thanks, Bill. I may have misunderstood about the blackout. It's something that I'll be able to see, or not, for myself on my workshop. If memory serves, the blackout issue was definitely something that that particular photographer mentioned as a concern, so I'll go back and re-watch his podcast on the Z6 ii.

As far as switching away from Nikon - that is not something that is going to happen in the near future. I am first and foremost a wildlife photographer.

Reply
 
 
Feb 18, 2021 17:18:21   #
MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City
 
Ysarex wrote:
The blackout problem is no different than the blackout problem with an SLR. You don't see anything through an OVF when the mirror lifts up. So you're already used to that. Mirrorless blackout is the same time length -- the exposure, and maybe a smidge less as the camera electronics probably recover a little faster than the time the mirror takes to reset. I have a Z7 and the blackout is barely noticeable.

One of my dislikes concerning the EVF is usually rated as a plus by most people; in the EVF you're seeing a software processed image. I'd rather see what I'm photographing without any interpretation from anybody. I do like the fact that the EVF gives me a live histogram before I take the photo. Because I use a number of manually focused lenses I really like the magnification focus assist. Overall I'm still glad I made the switch.

Buy extra batteries and keep them charged.
The blackout problem is no different than the blac... (show quote)


In about 3 weeks, I'll have the chance to try out a Z6 ii while shooting next to a real expert who shoots the same subjects (wildlife and birds) that I do. I'll be able to see for myself. From what I've read, there is serious difference of opinion about mirrorless based on subject matter. What is acceptable to a landscape photographer can be a non-starter for wildlife photographer.

As far as batteries go - I always have at 3 extras with me on EVERY shoot. Plus, I have a grip on both of my Nikons, so there's another back-up right there.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 17:24:36   #
MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City
 
burkphoto wrote:
Wait a minute, there is NO blackout with mirrorless cameras! Use the electronic shutter and there is no shutter shock or mirror shock (no mirror to shock) or noise, either. Look at the Sony A9 II or A1 if you are concerned about finder latency.

I am an ex-Nikon, ex-Canon user of Panasonic Lumix Micro 4/3 gear, solely because it took those brands almost ten years to get up to speed on serious mirrorless systems. I kept waiting, and gave up in 2015.

I'm not missing a thing about Canikon, but then, I have very specific applications that the Lumix GH4 handles without issues. (I don't photograph sports and wildlife, and the largest prints I make are usually 20x16.)

Lumix gear is my favorite for hybrid use (stills plus video in the same body). Many of my needs include both video and stills of the same content. Panasonic Lumix now make four full frame bodies and share the Leica L-Mount lens system with Leica and Sigma, in addition to sharing the Micro 4/3 system with Olympus and many third parties.

Mirrorless is not for everyone, just yet, but it is the future of advanced photography. There are too many advantages to ignore, and the disadvantages are fading away quickly with each new generation of cameras.
Wait a minute, there is NO blackout with mirrorles... (show quote)


Just came cross this. I ALWAYS shoot at high fps.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51198738

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 17:31:30   #
MikeT9
 
I’m sorry but what a twat. The eye af on my Canon R5 leaves my 1DXII in the dust. Mirrorless will sooner or later see the demise of DSLR’s and I can see why. So please stop your whingeing and just face the future.

Reply
Feb 18, 2021 17:44:30   #
John Hicks Loc: Sible Hedinham North Essex England
 
What ever camera you buy, if you don't get the one your heart is set on you will never be completely happy .

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