Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Sensor size question
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 next>>
Jan 13, 2021 07:32:36   #
TerryVS
 
User ID wrote:
Very tidy. Yet of no actual help for the intimidated masses. Nothing deficient concerning your math. But clearly, the real solution is to eliminate the math.

It just doesn’t matter how logical your explanation may be. It contains words such as “calculation, multiply, divisible, equivalent, and inverse”. IOW, dead in the water.


So as someone that's never used a DX lens on my DX body I have a question. Is a 10mm DX lens on a DX body the same field of view as a 15 mm FX lens on a FX body?

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 07:39:16   #
BebuLamar
 
TerryVS wrote:
So as someone that's never used a DX lens on my DX body I have a question. Is a 10mm DX lens on a DX body the same field of view as a 15 mm FX lens on a FX body?


Yes!

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 09:01:48   #
rv8striker Loc: St. Louis, MO area
 
[quote=CHG_CANON]The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of the lens is the focal length of the lens, expressed in millimeters, regardless of the sensor size. The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera. The 100mm focal-length image is cropped by the camera sensor, the lens doesn't change.



Wow, now I’m confused. Is it possible I’m misunderstanding your sentence: “The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera” Should it not read “On a crop sensor camera, not full frame?” placing a 100mm lens on full frame camera = 100mm, 100mm on crop censor= 150mm or am I missing something?

| Reply
 
 
Jan 13, 2021 09:21:59   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
The focal length of the lens does not change. The size of the image it projects on the sensor changes. Or one could say that the size of the image that the sensor receives changes. I’m not sure which one is more technically accurate but at least the focal length doesn’t change just because the sensor size changes.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 09:22:12   #
BebuLamar
 
[quote=rv8striker]
CHG_CANON wrote:
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of the lens is the focal length of the lens, expressed in millimeters, regardless of the sensor size. The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera. The 100mm focal-length image is cropped by the camera sensor, the lens doesn't change.



Wow, now I’m confused. Is it possible I’m misunderstanding your sentence: “The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera” Should it not read “On a crop sensor camera, not full frame?” placing a 100mm lens on full frame camera = 100mm, 100mm on crop censor= 150mm or am I missing something?
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of... (show quote)


Paul was correct. Putting a lens on cameras wit different sensor size would change the field of view but not the focal length. 100mm is still 100mm.
In your case if you never use a 35mm camera or an FX camera then you should forget about the crop factor altogether.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 09:37:51   #
MadMikeOne Loc: Southern New Jersey Shore
 
CO wrote:
Nikon has a lens simulator online:
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/simulator/

I selected a full frame 50mm lens, and used the simulator to see the view on a full frame D750 and cropped sensor D5000 series.


Thanks for the link. I had absolutely no idea this tool existed.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 09:58:52   #
rv8striker Loc: St. Louis, MO area
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Paul was correct. Putting a lens on cameras wit different sensor size would change the field of view but not the focal length. 100mm is still 100mm.
In your case if you never use a 35mm camera or an FX camera then you should forget about the crop factor altogether.


Duh…field of view is the key, I knew that. Next time I’ll have my second cup of coffee before posting. Thanks for clearing that up.

| Reply
 
 
Jan 13, 2021 10:13:02   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
I think everyone has you covered on the crop factor info - I'll say this about camera longevity... I still shoot my Nikon D90's, a 12 yr old Canon P&S, I can make my Minolta 7000 work when I get the desire, and I have plenty of lenses for all, old Fuji & Nikon superzooms, etc. If you take good care of that 5600 it should be making great shots for many years to come... Have fun!!

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 10:33:16   #
bleirer
 
[quote=rv8striker]
CHG_CANON wrote:
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of the lens is the focal length of the lens, expressed in millimeters, regardless of the sensor size. The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera. The 100mm focal-length image is cropped by the camera sensor, the lens doesn't change.



Wow, now I’m confused. Is it possible I’m misunderstanding your sentence: “The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera” Should it not read “On a crop sensor camera, not full frame?” placing a 100mm lens on full frame camera = 100mm, 100mm on crop censor= 150mm or am I missing something?
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of... (show quote)


I think you are both right just stating it different ways. A 100mm lens is a 100mm lens no matter what body it is on, but to get the same field of view a crop camera would have a 100mm lens but a full frame camera would have a 150mm lens. So a 100 mm lens on a crop camera is 'equivalent' to a 150mm lens on a full frame. When you look through the viewfinder you see what you see and adjust accordingly.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 11:10:03   #
Abo Loc: Victoria Australia
 
User ID wrote:
A simple approach is to ignore all references to “crop factor” and never think in that mode.

Just accept the FL marked on the lens. It represents some specific view. If you choose to know a little something about the numeric markings, just know that “normal” is 30 to 35mm for any APSC camera. Knowing that much you can wing it about any longer or shorter FLs.

——————————————————

——————————————————


Consider how the “crop factor” arose. Everyone who used 24x36 film or sensors already knew what the view looks like for any FL. It was almost instinct. It was not intellect or formula.
“Crop factor” was a formulaic crutch for those users to help them adjust to early DSLRs which were NOT the familiar 24x36 format.

The crop factor is obsolete. Today the smaller format is ubiquitous. The time for numeric translation is past. Just get to know the view based on marked FL. Be just like the millions of 24x36 users. You are one of the millions of 18x36 users. What worked for decades of 24x36 users will work for you.

Did 24x36 users burden themselves by thinking that they were operating with a 1.8x crop factor ? Never crossed their minds ... but technically that was the conversion factor from the rollfilm that was ubiquitous before 24x36 (35mm film) displaced rollfilm. No one thought about any “crop factor”, so why should you ? What’s it get you ?

For any camera, FL indicates a view, arithmetic does not.
A simple approach is to ignore all references to “... (show quote)


John7199,

User ID is a great source of information, but John you must know
how to interpret his posts.

Fortunately that's very simple, all you have to do to interpret
what he writes, is know the exact opposite
of what he says is true... In a nut shell, he's less than a talentless
hack with the IQ of a fence post.

On the other hand, CHG Canon knows cameras very well,
and his explanations of "Crop Factor" are spot on."
And Thomas902 is a fine artist... a Photographer with a capitol "P" imho; his comments
are spot on too. It's worth digesting what they both say.

The diagram below represents an FX and a DX sensor and their physical dimensions.

The part of the view you see in their respective frames is approximately what each sensor
will capture with the same lens swapped from an FX camera to a DX camera.

Ironically, I shot the image with a cell phone lol.


(Download)

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 11:45:26   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
John7199 wrote:
OK Beating a dead horse, but I'm an old codger.

Proud owner of a Nikon D5600, which I just heard Nikon is discontinuing.
When buying lens I know the certain lens will not operate at the stated focal length as others. Because of sensor size a 150mm will operate as a ??mm.

Please explain in non technical parlance. Also is there a formula to use?

This time I'll keep the answer. Thanks John


The lens is still 150mm and has the same magnification as a 150mm lens on any other camera, regardless of sensor or film size. HOWEVER, due to the 1.5x "crop factor" (a misnomer, but common parlance), it provides the same FIELD OF VIEW on your camera as a 225mm lens you might use on a full frame camera. Changing the sensor size merely changes the surface area available for the lens in use to project an image onto. The smaller the surface area, the closer the view of the subject when you enlarge the image. In digital photography, a full frame sensor has a "crop factor" of 1.0.

Reducing sensor size narrows the field of view. Increasing sensor size widens the field of view. To compensate for the change, you can back up when using a smaller sensor, or move forward when using a larger sensor, OR, you can change the focal lengths used on each platform. Note that moving forward or backward WILL change the perspective (the relative closeness or distance between the subject and the background objects in the photo.

There are depth of field effects involved in switching focal lengths to cover different size sensors, too. Generally, f/4 at 25mm on Micro 4/3, f/5.6 at 38mm on APS-C/DX, and f/8 at 50mm on full frame all yield roughly the same depth of field, with the same field of view, from the same distance.

| Reply
 
 
Jan 13, 2021 11:56:26   #
bleirer
 
Abo wrote:
John7199,

User ID is a great source of information, but John you must know
how to interpret his posts.

Fortunately that's very simple, all you have to do to interpret
what he writes, is know the exact opposite
of what he says is true... In a nut shell, he's less than a talentless
hack with the IQ of a fence post.

On the other hand, CHG Canon knows cameras very well,
and his explanations of "Crop Factor" are spot on."
And Thomas902 is a fine artist... a Photographer with a capitol "P" imho; his comments
are spot on too. It's worth digesting what they both say.

The diagram below represents an FX and a DX sensor and their physical dimensions.

The part of the view you see in their respective frames is approximately what each sensor
will capture with the same lens swapped from an FX camera to a DX camera.

Ironically, I shot the image with a cell phone lol.
John7199, br br User ID is a great source of info... (show quote)


This one I did report to admin. What is so hard about being civil?

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 11:56:44   #
WJShaheen Loc: Gold Canyon, AZ
 
Abo wrote:
John7199,

User ID is a great source of information, but John you must know
how to interpret his posts.

Fortunately that's very simple, all you have to do to interpret
what he writes, is know the exact opposite
of what he says is true... In a nut shell, he's less than a talentless
hack with the IQ of a fence post.

On the other hand, CHG Canon knows cameras very well,
and his explanations of "Crop Factor" are spot on."
And Thomas902 is a fine artist... a Photographer with a capitol "P" imho; his comments
are spot on too. It's worth digesting what they both say.

The diagram below represents an FX and a DX sensor and their physical dimensions.

The part of the view you see in their respective frames is approximately what each sensor
will capture with the same lens swapped from an FX camera to a DX camera.

Ironically, I shot the image with a cell phone lol.
John7199, br br User ID is a great source of info... (show quote)


Great illustration. Says it all.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 12:00:22   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of the lens is the focal length of the lens, expressed in millimeters, regardless of the sensor size. The crop factor impacts the field of view where a 100mm lens, for example, will result in the equivalent field of view of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera. The 100mm focal-length image is cropped by the camera sensor, the lens doesn't change.

Digital camera models are manufactured for about 2-years, in this fast-paced industry. Being discontinued has no impact on your camera. Over time, say another 2- to 5-years after the model is no longer being made / sold, support will end such that Nikon (Canon, etc) will not maintain model-specific parts for repair work. But, as a modern industry-standard 24MP digital camera, you easily can expect 10+ years of usage from this advanced DSLR model.
The Nikon crop factor is 1.5x. The focal length of... (show quote)


CHG_CANON, when one thinks about it, every year an automobile is discontinued. Seldom is a model year of an automobile exactly the same as the next for there is always something that makes it different in some way. It's called, "Marketing". Some brands drive the marketing trend and others follow the marketing trend with "their version" of the product.

Consumability is a major factor in one of the driving forces in buying. An item that is consumed must be replenished. An item that is durable may only be bought once in an owner's lifetime. Businesses must then find ways to entice customers to buy which is often done by the old tagline "New and Improved..!"

Those of us in sales and marketing know that it is important to understand why people buy which are:

1. - To fulfill basic needs (such as food, shelter, etc.).
2. - Convenience like a wash machine rather than going to the river wash clothes.
3. - Replacement of an item deemed to be important to replace.
4. - Scarcity. Remember the recent toilet paper shortage that drove people to buy some when they found it.
5. - Prestige. The "look what I got" symbol of status and pride of ownership of something that others don't have.
6. - Emotional fulfillment. The want of something do to all of the self talk, the little voice in our mind.
7. - Low Price / Great Value. The old, Now's the time to buy.
8. - Peer Pressure. Everyone else is getting one, I need one too.
9. - Fear. The need to be safe in some way.
10 - Indulgence. - That self reward.

| Reply
Jan 13, 2021 12:36:06   #
User ID
 
TerryVS wrote:
So as someone that's never used a DX lens on my DX body I have a question. Is a 10mm DX lens on a DX body the same field of view as a 15 mm FX lens on a FX body?


I had already replied to that question in my words that you have quoted. But to simplify further, here’s a redundant reply:

Your 10mm lens is very wide. If you buy a bigger camera you would need a bigger lens to do a similar job. Likewise, if you buy a smaller camera you would need a smaller lens for the same purpose.

| Reply
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 next>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2021 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.