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Help with noise
Jan 11, 2021 08:17:20   #
Jklovell
 
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?





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Jan 11, 2021 08:29:36   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
In this case, these camera settings likely would address your concern: f/5.6, 1/500th sec, Auto ISO.

The settings for aperture and shutter speed gain several stops of exposure while lowering the ISO, thus reducing noise.

Others here may offer better advice from their experience.
Jklovell wrote:
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?
I have several of these images of an eagle flying ... (show quote)

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Jan 11, 2021 08:34:45   #
NCMtnMan Loc: N. Fork New River, Ashe Co., NC
 
If your system is capable of running it, try downloading and running a 30 day trial of Topaz Denoise AI. You don't have to sign up with a credit card to try it.

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Jan 11, 2021 12:24:55   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
anotherview wrote:
In this case, these camera settings likely would address your concern: f/5.6, 1/500th sec, Auto ISO......


The BIF shooters usually recommend shutter speeds faster than 1/1000 sec. but since this is a large bird, 1/1000 would probably be OK. We're well into the territory of unavoidable compromise, and noise seems to be the biggest issue, so slight motion blur at the wingtips is probably a lesser compromise (some actually see it as desirable). Otherwise I agree with your assessment and suggestion that a lower ISO is the best answer.

It sounds like these are crops of crops, so there's a limit to what can be achieved.

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Jan 11, 2021 16:33:11   #
Jklovell
 
NCMtnMan wrote:
If your system is capable of running it, try downloading and running a 30 day trial of Topaz Denoise AI. You don't have to sign up with a credit card to try it.


Thank you. I’ve heard good things. I didn’t realize there was a trial version.

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Jan 11, 2021 19:23:08   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Let me add that you can also move your camera to track this big bird in flight. Doing so may allow an even slower shutter speed, like 1/250sec. Best to experiment with tweaking your settings.
anotherview wrote:
In this case, these camera settings likely would address your concern: f/5.6, 1/500th sec, Auto ISO.

The settings for aperture and shutter speed gain several stops of exposure while lowering the ISO, thus reducing noise.

Others here may offer better advice from their experience.

Reply
Jan 12, 2021 06:10:39   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
I second the suggestion to try Denoise AI. I have found it amazing for even very noisy images, and it includes a very effective sharpening tool as well.

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Jan 12, 2021 06:20:04   #
ClarkJohnson Loc: Fort Myers, FL and Cohasset, MA
 
I would not go for a slower shutter speed, but f13 might be a bit extreme for aperture. Try opening up to f8 or so to bring down the ISO (on auto?). Wider apertures will also isolate the subject more, if you are looking for that effect.

I use Topaz DeNoise AI on almost all my images. Highly recommended. It works well, as was mentioned, IF YOUR SYSTEM CAN HANDLE IT. Topaz products require robust video cards and video memory capacity that may not be available on some systems. Hopefully you will not run into problems.

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Jan 12, 2021 12:44:15   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
Jklovell wrote:
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?
I have several of these images of an eagle flying ... (show quote)


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Good Luck on your photo journey.

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Jan 12, 2021 15:14:39   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Jklovell wrote:
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?
I have several of these images of an eagle flying ... (show quote)

Give Topaz DeNoise AI a try. I've found it has worked wonders with some of my noisier pix.

bwa


(Download)



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Jan 12, 2021 17:28:22   #
goldstar46 Loc: Tampa, Fl
 
Jklovell wrote:
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?
I have several of these images of an eagle flying ... (show quote)

========================================================

J.K. May I offer the following?

When I go 'bird shooting' with my Canon and a 100/400, I choose a lower f/stop, then a 'fixed shutter speed' such as your 1/1600, depending on the bird at hand, and then I let the ISO 'float'... Many times, I will choose a f/stop just 1 stop above the minimum of the given lens I am shooting.... Yes, Yes, I know... Every lens has it's 'optimum sweet spot' and I understand that... but hear me out.

For shots such as this, your f/stop could be set further down, say f/6.7 (or lower) and that would allow your ISO to be up-scaled giving the shutter speeds remains @ 1/1600? Here is the logic behind that.

With this shot you have, I am going to 'make a general assumption' that your distance to the subject is 500ft... I know it could be further, but we will assume that for now...

Using a 'Depth of Field' calculator, and plugging in the numbers of f/6.7, 100-400mm lens @ 400mm, your given angle of view will give you a depth of fields of 199ft... that would 80ft in front of the subject and 118ft to the rear of the subject... and ... OF Course, you 'objective' is to be actually 'in focus' somewhere on the bird...

Given all of the above, and with an Auto ISO, the ISO range is going to be much lower than your given amount, and therefore, the 'Noise' will be reduced...

For the calculations I have given, please see the attached JPG, which can be calculated for any of the numbers using the URL Link below...

https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof

Hope this is helpful in some way...

Cheers
GeoVz

PS... Given all of the above, yes you want to consider all elements of what would improve your photography but, having said that I would suggest that starting with a better image out of the camera would be the first solution and then add denoise programs on top of that

... After the above, you can also continue with the 'refinement' of your product with any of the many 'de-noise' programs on the market... Yes, there are some good one.

####


(Download)

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Jan 20, 2021 20:03:50   #
67skylark27 Loc: Pulaski, WI
 
ClarkJohnson wrote:
I would not go for a slower shutter speed, but f13 might be a bit extreme for aperture. Try opening up to f8 or so to bring down the ISO (on auto?). Wider apertures will also isolate the subject more, if you are looking for that effect.

I use Topaz DeNoise AI on almost all my images. Highly recommended. It works well, as was mentioned, IF YOUR SYSTEM CAN HANDLE IT. Topaz products require robust video cards and video memory capacity that may not be available on some systems. Hopefully you will not run into problems.
I would not go for a slower shutter speed, but f13... (show quote)


I agree - f13 is robbing you of a lower iso - and yes use auto iso. Also, the available light in the first photo is not ideal for getting detail in birds, unless you are really close and can fill the frame. White sky is very difficult to have the camera meter the exposure correctly. Steve Perry of Backcountry Gallery has great tips on all of that, he's the best.

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Jan 23, 2021 14:37:00   #
DanielB Loc: San Diego, Ca
 
Jklovell wrote:
I have several of these images of an eagle flying clutching a crappie he just caught. All were captured with a Sony A7r3, Sony 100-400mm GM, crop mode, f13, ISO 2000, at 1/1600sec. And these are cropped about 2/3 of the original. I was pleased with all but the noise. I’ve seen pictures of eagles where you can see the dust on the wings. I certainly don’t expect to bring these up to that level, but I would like to see them much less grainy and sharper. I’ve run through LR, and maxed that out. Would it be worth fooling with anymore or should I go back to the river and try again?
I have several of these images of an eagle flying ... (show quote)


It's hard for us to see the noise you speak of with the size images here. Click store original next time so we can see the larger version of the image. There are several good software choices for noise reduction, even Lightroom will do a decent job. I have been using Nik by DXO since the original came out. I just added Topaz to my collection and it's turning out to be quite good also. I have attached comparison images. All cropped to 100%. Shot on Canon R5 with EF 100-400 f4-5.6L at 300mm. ISO-1600.

For me Topaz is the best because it reduces noise and does a great job at preserving detail - even enhancing it.

Hope this helps.
Oringinal with some Lightroom sharpening.
Oringinal with some Lightroom sharpening....
(Download)
With Nik by DXO
With Nik by DXO...
(Download)
Topaz De Noise AI
Topaz De Noise AI...
(Download)

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Feb 28, 2021 17:55:40   #
sudamar Loc: Southern Indiana
 
Does Topez do a better job than Affinity as far as noise and other adjustments?

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Mar 4, 2021 11:06:31   #
DanielB Loc: San Diego, Ca
 
sudamar wrote:
Does Topez do a better job than Affinity as far as noise and other adjustments?


I have not found better. Nik is really good but Topaz AI is phenomenal.

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