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Neewer Pro 4 way?
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Jan 10, 2021 13:26:15   #
old poet
 
Is the Neewer Pro Four way slider from Amazon for $31.99 worth buying for trying out macro and photo stacking without a big investment? Or, would it just disappoint and not encourage the effort.

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Jan 10, 2021 13:38:22   #
rcarol
 
Les Brown wrote:
Is the Neewer Pro Four way slider from Amazon for $31.99 worth buying for trying out macro and photo stacking without a big investment? Or, would it just disappoint and not encourage the effort.


I don't have this specific slider but I did purchase an inexpensive slider similar to the one you reference. It has worked well for me.

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Jan 10, 2021 13:59:48   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Les Brown wrote:
Is the Neewer Pro Four way slider from Amazon for $31.99 worth buying for trying out macro and photo stacking without a big investment? Or, would it just disappoint and not encourage the effort.


Les, I stage focus stacking sessions nearly everyday for the past few years. I started out with a manual focus rail which do a great job with no reservations whatsoever.

I started with the "4-way" focus rail and I found it to have some disadvantages compared to other manual focus rail choices and I'll share my experiences of it with you and what they were:

1. If the camera is mounted on it the center of gravity is high. The lens extends past the camera (of course) so there is leverage of the gravity wanting to pull it downward. It's like using a crowbar to pull a nail. The slightest movement creates shake.

2. The 4-way focus rails use a 'rack and pinion' method of moving forward and back, left and right. As such the degree of movement is not as fine nor consistent as other choices of manual rails.

3. Much of the parts are plastic. There are some that are steel and frankly, they look the same on the online pictures so be sure to check before you buy.

4. They use a screw that puts pressure on a piece of plastic that presses against the slide. Over time the plastic brake shoe will 'break' and if the screw is threaded into plastic it wears out.

5. They mount with a 1/4-inch thread screw so when attached to your tripod mounting plate it is difficult to keep it square with the subject and the single point of mount acts like a pivot so it can move when handled. Again..it's that torque thing.

My advice is to get a "flat" metal screw driven manual focus rail and one that has a built-in ARCA Swiss dovetail so that it can mount directly into your mounting device such as the tripod.

Advantages are: All metal. Precision screw for ultra fine consistent movement. Low center of gravity. Firm mounting into the tripod. Last a lifetime.

Here's a Neewer model (x/y axis for focus stacking) for the same price:
https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Wormdrive-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting/dp/B07FSKRRX9/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2I46YQ6SJ05TF&dchild=1&keywords=focus+rail+for+macro+photography&qid=1610305082&sprefix=focus+rail%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-6

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Jan 10, 2021 14:53:30   #
old poet
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Les, I stage focus stacking sessions nearly everyday for the past few years. I started out with a manual focus rail which do a great job with no reservations whatsoever.

I started with the "4-way" focus rail and I found it to have some disadvantages compared to other manual focus rail choices and I'll share my experiences of it with you and what they were:

1. If the camera is mounted on it the center of gravity is high. The lens extends past the camera (of course) so there is leverage of the gravity wanting to pull it downward. It's like using a crowbar to pull a nail. The slightest movement creates shake.

2. The 4-way focus rails use a 'rack and pinion' method of moving forward and back, left and right. As such the degree of movement is not as fine nor consistent as other choices of manual rails.

3. Much of the parts are plastic. There are some that are steel and frankly, they look the same on the online pictures so be sure to check before you buy.

4. They use a screw that puts pressure on a piece of plastic that presses against the slide. Over time the plastic brake shoe will 'break' and if the screw is threaded into plastic it wears out.

5. They mount with a 1/4-inch thread screw so when attached to your tripod mounting plate it is difficult to keep it square with the subject and the single point of mount acts like a pivot so it can move when handled. Again..it's that torque thing.

My advice is to get a "flat" metal screw driven manual focus rail and one that has a built-in ARCA Swiss dovetail so that it can mount directly into your mounting device such as the tripod.

Advantages are: All metal. Precision screw for ultra fine consistent movement. Low center of gravity. Firm mounting into the tripod. Last a lifetime.

Here's a Neewer model (x/y axis for focus stacking) for the same price:
https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Wormdrive-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting/dp/B07FSKRRX9/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2I46YQ6SJ05TF&dchild=1&keywords=focus+rail+for+macro+photography&qid=1610305082&sprefix=focus+rail%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-6
Les, I stage focus stacking sessions nearly everyd... (show quote)

Thank you. I had some concern about the center of gravity, and I didn't see the need for four way movement.

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Jan 10, 2021 16:53:07   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Les Brown wrote:
Thank you. I had some concern about the center of gravity, and I didn't see the need for four way movement.


Les, my background is in mechanical system design so I tend to think of things that are in ways that are obedient to the Laws of Physics such as in this case. The camera attaches via the thread hole in its base. The end of the lens is several inches past that small anchor point. The slightest movement, including the pull of gravity, on the lens applies a large force on the anchor point.

In macro focus stacking ...any vibration or movement are highly undesirable and counterproductive to the quality of the desired result.

Next is the 'rack and pinion' track drive. When we count the number of teeth on the rack they are far, far less than the number of threads on the screw drive type focus rail. The finer the threads, the more resolute the increments of movement can be and the more repeatable they can be.

For example, I would imagine the knob of my manual focus rail as the face of a clock. When I put a fine mark on the knob I could then imagine it to be the second hand of the clock with 60-increments of movement to one full turn. If one full turn moved the camera mount 1/2-mm then each of the increments would equate to 0.0083mm. If it moved 1-mm then each of the 60 increments would move it 0.0167mm.

By putting a mark on the knob and imagining it to be the face of a clock each amount of turn can be repeated shot after shot of the number of images taken in the stack. This helps assure that there is no gaps in the processing of the stack of images with regard to sharpness.

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Jan 10, 2021 18:15:28   #
fjdarling Loc: Mesa, Arizona, USA
 
Les, I have that focusing rail and I agree with most of what Sippyjug said. The only difference is mine appears to be all metal except for the plastic knobs. At one time I removed the side-to-side rail and just used the front-to-back rail. While that was more stable, it did not help the coarse focusing characteristic or the balance issue - sagging at times due to loose tolerances between the sliding parts. The bottom line is, I bought it to dip my toe inexpensively into macro photography and it has worked acceptably for that purpose. Had I expected to spend lots of effort on macro photography or engage in focus stacking I would have bought one of higher quality and with screw-focusing rather than rack-and-pinion focusing. The Neewer is fine for flowers or other "larger" subjects. But the depth of field detail you see in Sippyjug's focus-stacked images of very small subjects are only possible with a better-designed rail and well-developed skill such as his.

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Jan 10, 2021 18:57:40   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
fjdarling wrote:
Les, I have that focusing rail and I agree with most of what Sippyjug said. The only difference is mine appears to be all metal except for the plastic knobs. At one time I removed the side-to-side rail and just used the front-to-back rail. While that was more stable, it did not help the coarse focusing characteristic or the balance issue - sagging at times due to loose tolerances between the sliding parts. The bottom line is, I bought it to dip my toe inexpensively into macro photography and it has worked acceptably for that purpose. Had I expected to spend lots of effort on macro photography or engage in focus stacking I would have bought one of higher quality and with screw-focusing rather than rack-and-pinion focusing. The Neewer is fine for flowers or other "larger" subjects. But the depth of field detail you see in Sippyjug's focus-stacked images of very small subjects are only possible with a better-designed rail and well-developed skill such as his.
Les, I have that focusing rail and I agree with mo... (show quote)


Thanks, and I agree with you and I used mine for quite some time and I still use it at times now except to move the subject rather than the camera for the results and process are the same regardless of which one moves. Many times it's easier to advance the subject for the vibrations are not transmitted to the camera. Move forward...wait a second or two...fire the camera with the remote shutter release. Repeat, repeat, repeat. The 4-way rail works perfect and it is easy to advance for sessions up to 2X where the depth of field is not measured in thousandths of a millimeter as it is at 5X.

With one that is made of metal such as yours I'm sure that the tolerances are far closer than with ones made of plastic such as mine.

By the way...If you don't have a software program that will allow you to see what your camera sees, adjust your camera settings and to actuate the shutter and review the shot and store it to your hard drive then this FREE...yes, FREE program is for you (and me). It's called Digicam and it is the best thing ever for connecting your camera to your PC and controlling it from the PC. I couldn't do without it..or at least want to.

http://digicamcontrol.com/#hero

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Jan 10, 2021 19:39:13   #
fjdarling Loc: Mesa, Arizona, USA
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Thanks, and I agree with you and I used mine for quite some time and I still use it at times now except to move the subject rather than the camera for the results and process are the same regardless of which one moves. Many times it's easier to advance the subject for the vibrations are not transmitted to the camera. Move forward...wait a second or two...fire the camera with the remote shutter release. Repeat, repeat, repeat. The 4-way rail works perfect and it is easy to advance for sessions up to 2X where the depth of field is not measured in thousandths of a millimeter as it is at 5X.

With one that is made of metal such as yours I'm sure that the tolerances are far closer than with ones made of plastic such as mine.

By the way...If you don't have a software program that will allow you to see what your camera sees, adjust your camera settings and to actuate the shutter and review the shot and store it to your hard drive then this FREE...yes, FREE program is for you (and me). It's called Digicam and it is the best thing ever for connecting your camera to your PC and controlling it from the PC. I couldn't do without it..or at least want to.

http://digicamcontrol.com/#hero
Thanks, and I agree with you and I used mine for q... (show quote)


Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.

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Jan 11, 2021 08:03:19   #
manofhg Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Les, I stage focus stacking sessions nearly everyday for the past few years. I started out with a manual focus rail which do a great job with no reservations whatsoever.

I started with the "4-way" focus rail and I found it to have some disadvantages compared to other manual focus rail choices and I'll share my experiences of it with you and what they were:

1. If the camera is mounted on it the center of gravity is high. The lens extends past the camera (of course) so there is leverage of the gravity wanting to pull it downward. It's like using a crowbar to pull a nail. The slightest movement creates shake.

2. The 4-way focus rails use a 'rack and pinion' method of moving forward and back, left and right. As such the degree of movement is not as fine nor consistent as other choices of manual rails.

3. Much of the parts are plastic. There are some that are steel and frankly, they look the same on the online pictures so be sure to check before you buy.

4. They use a screw that puts pressure on a piece of plastic that presses against the slide. Over time the plastic brake shoe will 'break' and if the screw is threaded into plastic it wears out.

5. They mount with a 1/4-inch thread screw so when attached to your tripod mounting plate it is difficult to keep it square with the subject and the single point of mount acts like a pivot so it can move when handled. Again..it's that torque thing.

My advice is to get a "flat" metal screw driven manual focus rail and one that has a built-in ARCA Swiss dovetail so that it can mount directly into your mounting device such as the tripod.

Advantages are: All metal. Precision screw for ultra fine consistent movement. Low center of gravity. Firm mounting into the tripod. Last a lifetime.

Here's a Neewer model (x/y axis for focus stacking) for the same price:
https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Wormdrive-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting/dp/B07FSKRRX9/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2I46YQ6SJ05TF&dchild=1&keywords=focus+rail+for+macro+photography&qid=1610305082&sprefix=focus+rail%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-6
Les, I stage focus stacking sessions nearly everyd... (show quote)


Though that 4-way may not be the best choice, it does have the ability to adjust right and left. Would stacking two of the Neewer model you linked work or would there be issues there as well? I would like the ability of moving the camera the small amounts that sometimes would be more difficult if you have to adjust the tripod or move the subject instead.

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Jan 11, 2021 09:20:59   #
indemand77 Loc: Fridley, MN
 
The only complaint I have is attaching the camera. It is not a quick mount and the knob is in an area that makes it more difficult. Other than that I have taken a number of shots with it and I'm satisfied. I like it better than what I was doing which was adjusting the lens focus for stacking. I seem to achieve more consistent results. Hope this helps.

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Jan 11, 2021 12:16:39   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
manofhg wrote:
Though that 4-way may not be the best choice, it does have the ability to adjust right and left. Would stacking two of the Neewer model you linked work or would there be issues there as well? I would like the ability of moving the camera the small amounts that sometimes would be more difficult if you have to adjust the tripod or move the subject instead.


Yes, they would work very well stacked and in fact there are many screw drive focus rails sold that way.

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Jan 11, 2021 14:19:59   #
manofhg Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Yes, they would work very well stacked and in fact there are many screw drive focus rails sold that way.


Thanks. When I viewed this thread this morning, I had just ordered the 4-way yesterday. I canceled that and now intend to order two of the Neewer model you linked to.

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Jan 11, 2021 17:58:42   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
manofhg wrote:
Thanks. When I viewed this thread this morning, I had just ordered the 4-way yesterday. I canceled that and now intend to order two of the Neewer model you linked to.


I'm happy to have shared my experiences with manual focus rails. I'm confident that you will enjoy having a screw driven rail and having two is ever so handy and it provides a lot of flexibility.

Even though I have a digital motorized rail now, I still keep the manual screw focus rail mounted on the camera. This allows me to move and fine tune the focus of the camera without driving the motor. I mount the other rail 'vertically' so that I can move the tiny subjects, like a fly, up and down in front of the camera. This gives me an X-axis, Y-axis and a Z-axis.


(Download)


(Download)

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Jan 11, 2021 18:54:06   #
manofhg Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
I'm happy to have shared my experiences with manual focus rails. I'm confident that you will enjoy having a screw driven rail and having two is ever so handy and it provides a lot of flexibility.

Even though I have a digital motorized rail now, I still keep the manual screw focus rail mounted on the camera. This allows me to move and fine tune the focus of the camera without driving the motor. I mount the other rail 'vertically' so that I can move the tiny subjects, like a fly, up and down in front of the camera. This gives me an X-axis, Y-axis and a Z-axis.
I'm happy to have shared my experiences with manua... (show quote)


Thanks for sharing your setup and the pictures are worth a thousand words.

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Jan 11, 2021 22:38:55   #
old poet
 
This is what I like about UHH. Great information, advice, great photos, humor and even occasional snarky comments that I ignore.Thanks to all for the macro info.

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