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Noise . . . almost perfect except
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Oct 17, 2020 10:48:01   #
jonjacobik Loc: Quincy, MA
 
A dark overcast day. Sony 7AR4 set to 1/2000, 200mm F5.6 (Sony 200-600) auto iso @ 12800.

Timing is everything and timing was just about perfect for this confrontation between a downy and sparrow.

The noise unavoidable but can it be corrected. I’ve tried Photoshop and Topaz denoise with almost no effect. This OOC image just won’t correct. Any ideas how I can smooth out that background? BTW, shot was through a glass door.

Image, uncorrected, resized, jpg from raw file.


(Download)

Oct 17, 2020 10:59:52   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Because you are asking about denoising an image I am posting this as an example for you to evaluate. I used my favorite editing program which is Affinity Photo but Topaz Denoise is superior. You should have excellent results, assuming you know how to use the program.
As you can see noise is correctable.


(Download)

Oct 17, 2020 11:09:52   #
LEWHITE7747 Loc: 33773
 
Very nice correction--a lot of megapixels to work with! Iso was a little high, but the denoise took care of it..

 
 
Oct 17, 2020 11:19:18   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
If holding on to sharpness for the birds is a priority the best answer is to select the background and work on it separately.

Oct 17, 2020 11:20:51   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
OK, you have a very good photograph and captured some excellent action. Why focus the discussion on noise?

In film we have grain. The faster the film, the more apparent the grain. It's part of photography. The unfortunate aspect of digital is that the electrical engineering term 'noise' was used. There's nothing wrong with noise/grain. It's part of the image. So there is no need to "correct" it.
--Bob
jonjacobik wrote:
A dark overcast day. Sony 7AR4 set to 1/2000, 200mm F5.6 (Sony 200-600) auto iso @ 12800.

Timing is everything and timing was just about perfect for this confrontation between a downy and sparrow.

The noise unavoidable but can it be corrected. I’ve tried Photoshop and Topaz denoise with almost no effect. This OOC image just won’t correct. Any ideas how I can smooth out that background? BTW, shot was through a glass door.

Image, uncorrected, resized, jpg from raw file.

Oct 17, 2020 11:35:29   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
jonjacobik wrote:
.../...

And that destroyed the image.

Now it looks over processed and unnatural. Sorry but noise IS part of am image, like it or not. Over correcting for no reason other than" So-and-so says it will look better is never a good idea.

A good start turned into a miss.

Oct 17, 2020 11:38:25   #
Dave.Largent Loc: Puyallup, Washington
 
jonjacobik,
I used Lightroom to see what it would do and it seems to have done a fair job of reducing the noise.

Here is a shot of the final (I used the auto correct in addition to the noise reduction which warmed it up a little).

The second shot I cropped in.

The other shot shows a before and after zoomed in so you can better compare the noise in the two views and includes the settings of the noise reduction.

Very good shot.

Dave
Noise reduction in Lightroom.
Noise reduction in Lightroom....
(Download)
Cropped to show just the birds.
Cropped to show just the birds....
(Download)
Before and After Noise Reduction. The panel on the right is the Detail panel with the noise reduction changes I made.
Before and After Noise Reduction. The panel on the...
(Download)

 
 
Oct 17, 2020 11:46:34   #
Ourspolair
 
As someone else said, if you can make a mask and denoise just the background, it would be fine. The over-smoothing caused by the de-noising algorithm completely changes all of the texture in the feathers. Let's be reasonable, you are using 12800 ISO - you should be very happy with the small amount of noise that you are getting at this ultra-high ISO. It is about the same as you would have got from a 400ASA 120-size film (if there had been enough light to use it) and it was tough to push that to 1600.

Oct 17, 2020 12:11:24   #
LEWHITE7747 Loc: 33773
 
Lightroom did improve the images--The high iso caused some problems and the high megapixels has a lower dynamic range. Nice job.

Oct 17, 2020 12:27:07   #
SalvageDiver Loc: Huntington Beach CA
 
jonjacobik wrote:
A dark overcast day. Sony 7AR4 set to 1/2000, 200mm F5.6 (Sony 200-600) auto iso @ 12800.

Timing is everything and timing was just about perfect for this confrontation between a downy and sparrow.

The noise unavoidable but can it be corrected. I’ve tried Photoshop and Topaz denoise with almost no effect. This OOC image just won’t correct. Any ideas how I can smooth out that background? BTW, shot was through a glass door.

Image, uncorrected, resized, jpg from raw file.


I'm puzzled, because I used Topaz Denoise at it's absolute minimum level and it removed all the noise. I used ver 2.2.12 with the following settings:

Remove Noise = 1 (default=15)
Sharpen = 15 (default=15)
LowLightMode = off

Setting 'Remove Noise' above anything more than '1' didn't have any apparent effect since the setting of 1 appeared to remove all the noise.
Topaz Denoise set at 'Remove Noise = 1'
Topaz Denoise set at 'Remove Noise = 1'...
(Download)
Comparison of Original vs Denoised at 400%
Comparison of Original vs Denoised at 400%...
(Download)

Oct 17, 2020 12:32:37   #
jonjacobik Loc: Quincy, MA
 
Thanks everyone.
I tried your solutions and found - Affinity worked the easiest. The Luminance slider on the denoise filter smoothed the background easily.
Lightroom also had a luminance slider - odd though I couldn't find the equivalent in PS although despeckle in PS worked though not as well as LR.
Topaz Denoise - my go to software for noise, just didn't help this image.

As for opinion that noise or grain is part of the photo - I agree, but I may enter this our camera club competitions and untreated noise always gets a ding by judges.

 
 
Oct 17, 2020 12:40:41   #
jonjacobik Loc: Quincy, MA
 
In Topaz Denoise I used the latest version - 2.3.2 and you are right, the image was perfect when I used your settings - however on my copy the preview didn't show the correction. Once I saved the image the corrections were made.
I just installed the update today . . . I think a call to Topaz is in order.

Thanks.

Jon



Oct 17, 2020 14:01:27   #
SalvageDiver Loc: Huntington Beach CA
 
jonjacobik wrote:
In Topaz Denoise I used the latest version - 2.3.2 and you are right, the image was perfect when I used your settings - however on my copy the preview didn't show the correction. Once I saved the image the corrections were made.
I just installed the update today . . . I think a call to Topaz is in order.

Thanks.

Jon


You might want to check if 'Auto-update Preview' is checked. If it's not checked, then you need to click on the 'Update' button to update the preview to see the effect of your settings.


(Download)

Oct 18, 2020 06:18:50   #
tcthome Loc: Keansburg , NJ
 
Why I agree with a lot of the comments, What version of Topaz Labs Denoise AI are you using. The member joer uses the Sony 7r4 also. The link below he used 20,000 ISO. He turns out some incredibly sharp small bird pics. Why I didn't download your pic to work on, I have my camera set to max auto ISO of 3200. Ijust purchase Topaz Denoise AI about a month ago & it does a great job. There have been a couple of pics that came out better with LR6 using a brush to get rid of the noise adjusting exposure, smoothness , clarity etc. If I had PS I would mask out the birds & add a noise reduction & blur & try a separate noise reduction on the birds or nothing at all.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-663613-1.html

Oct 18, 2020 08:35:47   #
bleirer
 
jonjacobik wrote:
Thanks everyone.
I tried your solutions and found - Affinity worked the easiest. The Luminance slider on the denoise filter smoothed the background easily.
Lightroom also had a luminance slider - odd though I couldn't find the equivalent in PS although despeckle in PS worked though not as well as LR.
Topaz Denoise - my go to software for noise, just didn't help this image.

As for opinion that noise or grain is part of the photo - I agree, but I may enter this our camera club competitions and untreated noise always gets a ding by judges.
Thanks everyone. br I tried your solutions and fo... (show quote)


Photoshop has plenty of noise oprions. Look in the filter menu. For one you can use the Adobe camera raw filter which is identical to Lightroom. Also there are several reduce noise filters. If you convert the layer to smart object first the results are reversible.

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