Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Nikon Z6 and Z7
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Jul 31, 2020 11:33:01   #
dukepresley
 
I don't have the array of your cameras; when I went to the Z6, I only had a D750 & a D300s. I got rid of all my Nikon lenses, but kept the Nikon 24-70 f2.8. The adapter works fine, but after using it a bit, I decided to trade the new Z lens for a 24-70 f/4 (Z) for travel. Unfortunately, the pandemic has canceled our 2 planned trips for 2020. When we can finally travel, I will pull the trigger.

When the rumored Z6 upgrade appears, I will look at it...only "itch" I need scratched is the single card slot on the current model...let me clarify... there may be other things I need, but I don't know enough about them to comment at this time.

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Jul 31, 2020 11:43:15   #
User ID
 
CO wrote:
I don't remember exactly what the settings were. We're talking about focusing though, not high ISO noise performance. The sensor has its native ISO and the signal is boosted when increasing ISO. I don't think the ISO settings affects focusing performance.


True that iso has no effect on af, but I think the reason for talking about the iso in use is that it’s a (very approximate) way of describing how dim the room is.

For instance I could say “my sensor is not too overly noisy at iso 50k but in those conditions my af just quits”. Not exact, but “iso 50k” kinda tells you I’m asking my af to work in some pretty dismal light !

In film days one might have said “in our new gym all I need is tri-x. In the old building I had to push process tmz”. Same idea as the iso question. It communicates fairly well.

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Jul 31, 2020 11:55:29   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
rehess wrote:
Which DSLR gets the most use, and why?

The Z7 is more like the D850 while the Z6 is more like the D500.


...dude, the Z6 is full frame and is not a good comparison to the D500. I have both, and the one that's most always with me is the Z6, I *really* like it.

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Jul 31, 2020 11:56:52   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas
 
tomcat wrote:
You just simply didn't try the Z7 long enough. I have a Z6 and shooting with it is a different paradigm than DSLRs. You have to WANT to learn it and WANT to use it before you can become a success with Nikon mirrorless. When I go out to shoot indoor volleyball and basketball, I grab my Z6 and the Z 85mm f/1.8 S lens, a spare battery, and nothing else. All my other gear stays home. There is nothing else that Nikon makes that shoots in ultra-high ISO like the Z6 does--nothing.

Regarding your comment about the previews in the EVF, I am not sure what you meant....my EVF always gives me the live shot that I am getting ready to snap, not a preview
You just simply didn't try the Z7 long enough. I... (show quote)


I used the Z7 for several hours. That's not quite the same as owning one, but because its interface is so close to that of the D850, it was plenty of time for a thorough checkout, since no real orientation was required. For $3500, it needed quite a lot more "zing" for me to have considered replacing or displacing my D850. The couple of benefits it offered were more than offset by the inherent disadvantages for me.

As for the EVF, I was referring to the ability to see the current display with exposure parameters applied before pressing the shutter release. That's just not something that I consider useful, although recent Nikon DSLRs provide the ability to do that using Live View and the rear display. Neither the EVF nor the rear monitor, while quite excellent for what they do, really have the dynamic range or the depth of color to be making critical decisions. We read cautions on this forum all the time against making critical review decisions based on the review of rear monitor images, and the EVF, with its even tinier dots, is even more limited.

Again...both the Z6 and Z7 are fine cameras. I have friends who shoot both of them. But neither provides meaningful advantage to me over my D850. And the low light/high ISO "improvements that they see are nonzero, but non-earth shattering also. I have yet to find something they can do that I cannot. The supposed "paper benefits" have not yet translated to new capabilities. And I still have my $3500. Finally...There are a lot of folks here with D500s that seem to need to be returned either to where they were purchased or to Nikon for repair. I do a lot of low light/night photography. Usually with the D850 now, sometimes with the D810 and D500. I find both of the older cameras very close to the D850 in actual performance. Sensor density of all three cameras is very close to the same. The BSI sensor of the D850 does provide a little more dynamic range, though.

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Jul 31, 2020 11:57:49   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
With the wrong camera, success is probably 99% luck. But with a mirrorless camera, it's 100% the photographer.

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Jul 31, 2020 12:08:48   #
tomcat
 
larryepage wrote:
I used the Z7 for several hours. That's not quite the same as owning one, but because its interface is so close to that of the D850, it was plenty of time for a thorough checkout, since no real orientation was required. For $3500, it needed quite a lot more "zing" for me to have considered replacing or displacing my D850. The couple of benefits it offered were more than offset by the inherent disadvantages for me.

As for the EVF, I was referring to the ability to see the current display with exposure parameters applied before pressing the shutter release. That's just not something that I consider useful, although recent Nikon DSLRs provide the ability to do that using Live View and the rear display. Neither the EVF nor the rear monitor, while quite excellent for what they do, really have the dynamic range or the depth of color to be making critical decisions. We read cautions on this forum all the time against making critical review decisions based on the review of rear monitor images, and the EVF, with its even tinier dots, is even more limited.

Again...both the Z6 and Z7 are fine cameras. I have friends who shoot both of them. But neither provides meaningful advantage over my D850. And the low light/high ISO "improvements that they see are nonzero, but non-earth shattering also. I have yet to find something they can do that I cannot. The supposed "paper benefits" have not yet translated to new capabilities. And I still have my $3500. Finally...There are a lot of folks here with D500s that seem to need to be returned either to where they were purchased or to Nikon for repair. I do a lot of low light/night photography. Usually with the D850 now, sometimes with the D810 and D500. I find both of the older cameras very close to the D850 in actual performance. Sensor density of all three cameras is very close to the same. The BSI sensor of the D850 does provide a little more dynamic range, though.
I used the Z7 for several hours. That's not quite ... (show quote)


Thanks for explaining that Larry. I will say that it took me a couple of sessions to get my Z6 settings where I needed them for indoor high school sports shots. I shoot at extremely low light where the ISO values will climb to be in the 18,000 or so range with an f/2.8 lens. None of them will work at that low light. So I use the Z 85mm f/1.8 S lens on my Z6 and get superb shots at ISO 10,000-12,000 range. The light is so dim that it barely meets the NC safety standards for lighting an occupied building and almost all high school gyms are the same. The schools don't have the money that the NBA does to give a daylight level of brightness---lol and sigh at the same time. The images I shoot at 85mm are noiseless, sharp, and the colors are great.

But now, I am shooting a lot of environmental landscapes and I struggle with the settings on the Z6. I just can't seem to master manual and keep the DR where I like. I am out of practice with sunshine and remembering to set fast shutter speeds and high f/stops to dial back the exposures--ha. So I (gasp gasp!!) switch to P a lot.

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Jul 31, 2020 12:19:26   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas
 
tomcat wrote:
Thanks for explaining that Larry. I will say that it took me a couple of sessions to get my Z6 settings where I needed them for indoor high school sports shots. I shoot at extremely low light where the ISO values will climb to be in the 18,000 or so range with an f/2.8 lens. None of them will work at that low light. So I use the Z 85mm f/1.8 S lens on my Z6 and get superb shots at ISO 10,000-12,000 range. The light is so dim that it barely meets the NC safety standards for lighting an occupied building and almost all high school gyms are the same. The schools don't have the money that the NBA does to give a daylight level of brightness---lol and sigh at the same time. The images I shoot at 85mm are noiseless, sharp, and the colors are great.

But now, I am shooting a lot of environmental landscapes and I struggle with the settings on the Z6. I just can't seem to master manual and keep the DR where I like. I am out of practice with sunshine and remembering to set fast shutter speeds and high f/stops to dial back the exposures--ha. So I (gasp gasp!!) switch to P a lot.
Thanks for explaining that Larry. I will say tha... (show quote)


I use Program mode quite a bit when appropriate, necessary, or (sometimes) just convenient. I am not ashamed. There is really no mystery to it...exposure follows a specific path of aperture and shutter changes as light levels change, For a given ISO, the same metered light level will result in the same exposure combination every time. Double check whether your manual discusses how it works and maybe even provides a graph of exposure vs. light level.

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Jul 31, 2020 12:57:26   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
tomcat wrote:
Thanks for explaining that Larry. I will say that it took me a couple of sessions to get my Z6 settings where I needed them for indoor high school sports shots. I shoot at extremely low light where the ISO values will climb to be in the 18,000 or so range with an f/2.8 lens. None of them will work at that low light. So I use the Z 85mm f/1.8 S lens on my Z6 and get superb shots at ISO 10,000-12,000 range. The light is so dim that it barely meets the NC safety standards for lighting an occupied building and almost all high school gyms are the same. The schools don't have the money that the NBA does to give a daylight level of brightness---lol and sigh at the same time. The images I shoot at 85mm are noiseless, sharp, and the colors are great.

But now, I am shooting a lot of environmental landscapes and I struggle with the settings on the Z6. I just can't seem to master manual and keep the DR where I like. I am out of practice with sunshine and remembering to set fast shutter speeds and high f/stops to dial back the exposures--ha. So I (gasp gasp!!) switch to P a lot.
Thanks for explaining that Larry. I will say tha... (show quote)


Haha...you're makin' me smile. It *is* a hard transition from dingy gym to sunshine! I use my Z6 as a walk-around camera with the 24-70 f4 and love it in that capacity, and I rarely get out of aperture priority. If I do, I'll *start* with where the camera puts me in A mode, then tweak from there in M...

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Jul 31, 2020 13:23:13   #
neillaubenthal
 
The first thing I would do is go read Steve Perry’s evaluation at backcountrygallery.com...he doesn’t think that Nikon mirrorless is there yet if you are primarily a wildlife and BIF shooter. Beyond that...I would stick with Nikon unless you’re a pro and can afford all new glass...for amateurs or advanced amateurs the cost of switching is high...thee are adapters it they’re more to carry and don’t always give full performance.

I am waiting another bit on mirrorless to see if the issues get solved by Nikon.

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Jul 31, 2020 14:16:37   #
dbfrancy
 
I was in a similar situation. I opted for the Z6 (better low light ISO capability). I have used the Z6 with my Nikon 27-70 and 200-500 lenses with excellent results. I really like this little camera.

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Jul 31, 2020 15:16:52   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
ELNikkor wrote:
Patience! The DSLR's will hold you until the next, (new improved!) versions of the Z6 and Z7 come out. Look for faster, more accurate human and animal eye-focus, 2 card slots, better follow-focus, H.265 video...


That would be the Z5, introduced last week.

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Jul 31, 2020 15:30:50   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
larryepage wrote:
I used the Z7 for several hours. That's not quite the same as owning one, but because its interface is so close to that of the D850, it was plenty of time for a thorough checkout, since no real orientation was required. For $3500, it needed quite a lot more "zing" for me to have considered replacing or displacing my D850. The couple of benefits it offered were more than offset by the inherent disadvantages for me.

As for the EVF, I was referring to the ability to see the current display with exposure parameters applied before pressing the shutter release. That's just not something that I consider useful, although recent Nikon DSLRs provide the ability to do that using Live View and the rear display. Neither the EVF nor the rear monitor, while quite excellent for what they do, really have the dynamic range or the depth of color to be making critical decisions. We read cautions on this forum all the time against making critical review decisions based on the review of rear monitor images, and the EVF, with its even tinier dots, is even more limited.

Again...both the Z6 and Z7 are fine cameras. I have friends who shoot both of them. But neither provides meaningful advantage to me over my D850. And the low light/high ISO "improvements that they see are nonzero, but non-earth shattering also. I have yet to find something they can do that I cannot. The supposed "paper benefits" have not yet translated to new capabilities. And I still have my $3500. Finally...There are a lot of folks here with D500s that seem to need to be returned either to where they were purchased or to Nikon for repair. I do a lot of low light/night photography. Usually with the D850 now, sometimes with the D810 and D500. I find both of the older cameras very close to the D850 in actual performance. Sensor density of all three cameras is very close to the same. The BSI sensor of the D850 does provide a little more dynamic range, though.
I used the Z7 for several hours. That's not quite ... (show quote)


I would agree that if I already had a D850 I probably wouldn’t have dropped another $3000 on a Z7. Going in knowing I was making that $3000 purchase on one or the other, the Z7 edged out the D850. I probably would be very happy with the D850, but I’m happy I chose the Z7. My D500 is still my go to for long range wildlife. I will disagree with your earlier statement about build quality. I think the build quality of the Z7 is every bit the equal of the D500. I just think that because it’s so much smaller and lighter it gives the impression the build isn’t as substantial.

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Jul 31, 2020 15:50:30   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I would agree that if I already had a D850 I probably wouldn’t have dropped another $3000 on a Z7. Going in knowing I was making that $3000 purchase on one or the other, the Z7 edged out the D850. I probably would be very happy with the D850, but I’m happy I chose the Z7. My D500 is still my go to for long range wildlife. I will disagree with your earlier statement about build quality. I think the build quality of the Z7 is every bit the equal of the D500. I just think that because it’s so much smaller and lighter it gives the impression the build isn’t as substantial.
I would agree that if I already had a D850 I proba... (show quote)


Thanks for the info on the build quality. I would always hope that Nikon would build good equipment. Initial impressions can sometimes be incorrect.

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Jul 31, 2020 17:51:30   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I would agree that if I already had a D850 I probably wouldn’t have dropped another $3000 on a Z7. Going in knowing I was making that $3000 purchase on one or the other, the Z7 edged out the D850. I probably would be very happy with the D850, but I’m happy I chose the Z7. My D500 is still my go to for long range wildlife. I will disagree with your earlier statement about build quality. I think the build quality of the Z7 is every bit the equal of the D500. I just think that because it’s so much smaller and lighter it gives the impression the build isn’t as substantial.
I would agree that if I already had a D850 I proba... (show quote)


That is true. More mass does not equate to more quality. There are many other variables involved.

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Jul 31, 2020 18:35:24   #
Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC
 
rehess wrote:
Which DSLR gets the most use, and why?

The Z7 is more like the D850 while the Z6 is more like the D500.


No, I have both D500 and Z6, nothing alike DX VS FX, 20MP vs 24MP, and the beat goes on.

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