Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Nikon Z6 and Z7
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Jul 30, 2020 13:53:05   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas
 
RahulKhosla wrote:
I have a lot of Nikon gear, so am pretty deeply "invested" in that brand. None of the three bodies I have (D5/850/500) are mirrorless and I have been thinking about adding a mirrorless body to the arsenal to get faster shutter speed and AF esp for BIF and wildlife action as well as for better video capabilities. I have heard a lot about the wonders of Sony and other mirrorless bodies and lenses - however, going outside the Nikon range would mean interoperability problems. What would you wise people advise?
a) stick with Nikon?
b) if yes, which one?
c) if not, what would you recommend and how would compatibility / interoperability be solved?
d) should I just shut up and stick with DSLR's ?!!
I have a lot of Nikon gear, so am pretty deeply &q... (show quote)


I don't have a D5, but I do have a D850 and D500. I was in my local camera store a while ago and they had an unsold Z7 that they let me take a deep look at and take for a short spin around the block. Now please keep in mind that I was not in the market for a new camera (I'm still not), but even giving the Z7 the benefit of the doubt, it failed to make enough of an impression to make me consider buying or trading (my D810) for one.

The EVF is very popular here, but it failed to demonstrate itself to me as "better" than the optical viewfinder in my cameras. I don't shoot based on a "corrected preview," but one is already available to me on my rear display if I should need it. Construction did not provide the same confident "feel" as any of my other cameras, even going back to the D300. The user interface (menus & buttons) is very similar to that of the D850. Sometimes, just for fun, I like to shoot in square format (24x24) using the two DX lenses that I have. As far as I can tell there is no option to do that on the Z7...it changes to DX format automatically and forcibly, and I could not find a way to override that action. I did not have the camera long enough to evaluate battery life, but extrapolating from what I could observe indicated that it was going to be disappointing.

Overall, my assessment was that the Z7 would give me maybe 80% of what I already had with my D850. Since I tend to use a broad range of my cameras' functions, this was just a deal-killer for me. IBIS would be nice, but it does not serve a need that I have...the few lenses I have that need stabilization have VR, and I've never seen any evidence that I'm missing it on the other lenses, most of which are shorter lenses anyway. It also seems that Nikon is pursuing a new pricing strategy on the lenses, with equivalent S lenses being quite a bit more expensive than their F mount equivalents. The shorter flange distance means that the lenses have to be slightly longer, and the claimed extra performance from the new designs does not address a problem that I have found to be significantly real.

Don't get me wrong, though. I think the Z7 and Z6 are both very nice cameras. But their relative value depends completely on where a photographer is coming from. Either would be a great upgrade from a D7500 or even a D600. A Z7 might even be a nice change from a D750, but the cost penalty would be hard to justify. I personally would question the benefits of either camera over the D780, but can't say, because I've not used one. But I do not see a Z7 as an upgrade from a D850, and the Z6 would definitely be a step back, except maybe for video capability.

People who use their cameras differently from me could clearly come to a significantly different conclusion. I'm convinced that many here just use their cameras as boxes with sensors, shutters, and a place to stick a lens on one side. Nothing wrong with that either, but those folks will definitely come to a different conclusion from someone who routinely uses most or many of their camera's functions routinely.

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Jul 30, 2020 13:55:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
There are three responses to a great image: yes, no, or they must have used a mirrorless camera.

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Jul 30, 2020 15:28:55   #
User ID
 
RahulKhosla wrote:
Totally understood.... I’m in the same boat. I’d rather get a good mirror less that ensures I use my collection of excellent Nikon glass. I’ve no desire or need to buy more glass.

This is a naive question but would my Nikon glass easily work ( and well) on a non Nikon mirrorless camera ?

Don’t even ponder putting Nikon lenses on other makes of live view bodies now that the Z-series is available.

As I posted about my interest in a Z6, I’m good with the minor compromise of using Canon lenses on Sonys. Minor to me is a deal breaker to someone else. I’m happy enough with the EF-on-Sony operation to have no great interest in Canon R-series current models.

OTOH the degree of compromise involving Nikon lenses on Sonys DOES leave me verrrry interested in the Z6 with Nikon’s FTZ converter.

Sony’s own LAEA converters work perfectly with my old Maxxum lenses so I expect Nikon’s FTZ to be excellent with Nikon G and Ai lenses. IOW I trust OEM converters. My EF-on-Sony stuff is forced to use 3rd party converters which work well enuf but it’s less than ideal.

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Jul 30, 2020 17:14:19   #
2Much Loc: WA
 
User ID wrote:
...OTOH the degree of compromise involving Nikon lenses on Sonys DOES leave me verrrry interested in the Z6 with Nikon’s FTZ converter...


By all accounts compatible F-mount lenses work perfectly well with the Z cameras and FTZ, and as you say could give you the benefit of improved camera features while maintaining the performance you've come to expect from your lenses. And that's a good thing!

However, I think CHG CANON has a valid point. I've not seen a Z anything in the flesh (helps prevent GAS) and am unlikely to exceed the capabilities of my DSLRs for some time to come. But I have seen photos taken with the Z cameras using native Z lenses, and find their level of sharpness and natural looking detail to be uniformly stunning. I can't assert that it's true, but to my eyes they appear to be a genuine step up in image quality.

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Jul 30, 2020 22:34:46   #
RahulKhosla
 
JD750 wrote:
What do you mean by “quicker” shutter speed?

Ok The AF is the source of much debate on the Z-line. Performance is a combination of lens and cam body do you have to consider that.

Sony has been kicking butt with mirrorless auto focus. Nikon waited too long to enter the mirrorless market so they are having to catch up. But they are closing the gap quickly!


Sorry - instead of “quicker speed” I should have said higher frames per second.

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Jul 30, 2020 22:40:31   #
Wes Loc: Dallas
 
This is a pretty good examination of the new Z5 and the Z6 which I have.

These are the best mirrorless cameras you can buy right now
https://www.techradar.com/in/news/nikon-z5-vs-z6-8-key-differences-you-need-to-know

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Jul 30, 2020 22:47:20   #
RahulKhosla
 
CO wrote:
The AF performance of the Z6 and Z7 can't match the AF performance of the D5, D500, and D850. I have a D500 and rented the Z6 for two weeks. I did side by side shooting with both every day. The Z6 would often hunt to achieve focus in even slightly dim light. I activated the low-light focusing feature but that didn't help. The D500 would achieve focus on the same subject immediately. The D500 is superior for continuous tracking also. I'm waiting until Nikon's second or third generation Z series come out to look again.

All of these cameras have a fastest shutter speed of 1/8000 second. You wouldn't gain anything there.
The AF performance of the Z6 and Z7 can't match th... (show quote)


Thanks this is very useful. I love my DSLRs and have no intention of disposing them. I should have said I’m looking for higher FPS instead of saying I’m looking for higher shutter speed. If this is only achievable via a mirror less, then either I stick to Nikon and buy a Z series mirror less (so that I don’t have to buy more lenses) or I invest in the best mirrorless regardless of brand. So my original question stands - which mirror less camera today would you say is the top performer in terms of AF and FPS.

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Jul 30, 2020 22:53:02   #
RahulKhosla
 
User ID wrote:
Nothing really wrong there ... but you’re really being too limited in outlook with your constant drumming about the lenses. For all of us who are verrrrry happy with our lenses there is tremendous benefit in a compatible live view body. Adios SLRs. No regrets.

Just stepping up to improved AF and MF accuracy, silent shutter, total image preview (etc etc) is the attraction for plenty of users. New lenses as well ? Not an attraction, even a deterrent if they were mandatory like back when the SRT and CFD mounts died.

IOW if the Z and R series never happened, we would be quite fed up with our SLRs but have NO complaints about our lenses. Natcherly, we seek to replace ONLY the component that troubles us.

Relief from such troubles is now here and relief is welcome. Further miracles were not prayed for, and do not concern those of us very happy to just have relief.

Z and R kits with SLR lenses are not half a loaf. They are a whole pizza ! You seem to insist we all need two pizzas, with the works, plus salad, lest we starve and waste away.
Nothing really wrong there ... but you’re really b... (show quote)


It’s people like you and the condescending way you speak that makes relative photography novices like me hesitate to join and participate in forums such as these. Who gave you the license to decide what anyone else’s priorities or preferences should be ? It’s not difficult to focus on the question and answer it in a way that simply educates the enquirer.

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Jul 30, 2020 22:54:31   #
RahulKhosla
 
Wes wrote:
This is a pretty good examination of the new Z5 and the Z6 which I have.

These are the best mirrorless cameras you can buy right now
https://www.techradar.com/in/news/nikon-z5-vs-z6-8-key-differences-you-need-to-know


Thank you Wes

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Jul 30, 2020 22:57:47   #
RahulKhosla
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
There are three responses to a great image: yes, no, or they must have used a mirrorless camera.


🤣😊

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Jul 30, 2020 22:59:49   #
RahulKhosla
 
Very useful information, Larry. Thanks.

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Jul 31, 2020 06:35:16   #
starlifter Loc: Towson, MD
 
I wish I had the money to worry about things like this. Decisions, decisions.

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Jul 31, 2020 07:02:57   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Where are the rent them and try them out responses... Or buy from a place like B&H where they have a good return policy if you are not satisfied. The rest is just talk and opinion...

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Jul 31, 2020 07:17:09   #
Walkabout08
 
I upgraded to the z7 from my d7200. I had been wanting to buy a full frame camera for some time and the improved S lenses were the tipping point for me. Not having a closet full of Full frame DSLR lenses made it easy and painless financially. I sold all the crop lenses and the d7200 and have no regrets. As a rank and file hobbyist I am so glad I waited for these new mirrorless cameras. Now if only Nikon would issue the long promised S 70-200 .......

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Jul 31, 2020 07:24:10   #
User ID
 
2Much wrote:
By all accounts compatible F-mount lenses work perfectly well with the Z cameras and FTZ, and as you say could give you the benefit of improved camera features while maintaining the performance you've come to expect from your lenses. And that's a good thing!

However, I think CHG CANON has a valid point. I've not seen a Z anything in the flesh (helps prevent GAS) and am unlikely to exceed the capabilities of my DSLRs for some time to come. But I have seen photos taken with the Z cameras using native Z lenses, and find their level of sharpness and natural looking detail to be uniformly stunning. I can't assert that it's true, but to my eyes they appear to be a genuine step up in image quality.
By all accounts compatible F-mount lenses work per... (show quote)


Though it’s tiresome to endlessly hear wannabe gurus parroting words of wisdom, let’s consider one of their most well worn sage advisories: “Great lenses don’t make great photographs, great photographers make them”.

Being a “great enough” photographer I am not limited by neglecting to continually chase after every improvement wrought by lens makers. So new lenses are off the table, no matter how “stunning”. All the previous improvements have also been declared “stunning”. Just how stunned do you need to be ?

OTOH I know how I operate my cameras and when I see a possibility to enhance my way of operating, I find that to be worthwhile, or at least verrrry tempting. Likewise, I can be tempted by operational features of lenses, their non-optical aspects such as improved OIS or adding auto-iris to TS lenses.

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