Do You Use Your Histogram
Jul 2, 2020 04:08:31 #
LewSpecker wrote:
White balance - this why we adjust our camera to the ambient light. Depending on the camera the WB sometime is over or underexposed, so we adjust the EV (exposure compensation). The best way to determine the amount of =/- EV is to take an image and look at the histogram. As the EV modifies the image the histogram will move right or left. If you read why there is a histogram, the purpose will be self evident.
Very funny. Or maybe it’s just that all entertainment is scarce during these covid19 months.
Jul 2, 2020 09:10:50 #
smussler wrote:
I understand Motion having nothing to do with Hist... (show quote)
I just re-read the original post....... His question has to do with the omission of motion in articles in the histogram....... And the reason is, motion has nothing to go with the histogram..... He wonders if this might cause frustration with newbees... At least that's the way I understand it.....
Jul 2, 2020 09:32:19 #
BooIsMyCat wrote:
NO, the OP was not given some bad info... you misread, or misunderstood my comment which I've tried to clarify multiple times.
Original post
BooIsMyCat wrote:
I have been reading up on the use of histograms and find one issue missing - motion.
Most articles end with something like: "Never use your LCD for exposure again!" or something to that effect but, can you expose your image using the histogram when your subject is moving? Sounds pretty obvious but, for beginning photographers, this glaring omission could frustrate the daylights out of the newbie.
Most articles end with something like: "Never use your LCD for exposure again!" or something to that effect but, can you expose your image using the histogram when your subject is moving? Sounds pretty obvious but, for beginning photographers, this glaring omission could frustrate the daylights out of the newbie.
You are correct, I did miss read... I thought you had read (which gives you info), hit it is you that actually is asking the question about motion.
The reason motion is omitted in articles about the histogram, is it has nothing to do with the histogram. This omission should not confuse nor frustrate anyone, since the histogram is a graph of exposure, and motion to not part of that equation.
Jul 2, 2020 10:00:27 #
My third or fourth re-reading of the OP adds a new thought that maybe clears things up:
Let’s put some emphasis on the OP’s remark that articles praising reliance on the histogram often end with a remark to “Never use your monitor to judge your exposure again”.
Then the OP brings up motion and shutter speed. And that led to all this argument.
Now I’ll reword the OP’s concern so we can all relax about it. Here it is:
(Rewording the OP) “Yes, the histogram is better than viewing the monitor image for AMOUNT of exposure. However do NOT suggest that the monitor image can be ignored as as guide to exposure settings BECAUSE one of those settings is SHUTTER speed and only the monitor image ... not the histogram ... will show the noobie the motion blur from an inadequate shutter speed.” (end of rewording)
I really think the OP’s concern is not a disagreement about the stated value of histograms but is a disagreement about those summary remarks in some articles saying “Never use your monitor image as an exposure guide again”.
There’s an important difference between saying “exposure settings” vs “exposure”. That difference might seem small but I believe that difference has generated this whole thread.
The histogram deals only with “exposure” while the monitor image can advise about exposure SETTINGS cuz settings control motion blur and DoF which the histogram does not show.
Let’s put some emphasis on the OP’s remark that articles praising reliance on the histogram often end with a remark to “Never use your monitor to judge your exposure again”.
Then the OP brings up motion and shutter speed. And that led to all this argument.
Now I’ll reword the OP’s concern so we can all relax about it. Here it is:
(Rewording the OP) “Yes, the histogram is better than viewing the monitor image for AMOUNT of exposure. However do NOT suggest that the monitor image can be ignored as as guide to exposure settings BECAUSE one of those settings is SHUTTER speed and only the monitor image ... not the histogram ... will show the noobie the motion blur from an inadequate shutter speed.” (end of rewording)
I really think the OP’s concern is not a disagreement about the stated value of histograms but is a disagreement about those summary remarks in some articles saying “Never use your monitor image as an exposure guide again”.
There’s an important difference between saying “exposure settings” vs “exposure”. That difference might seem small but I believe that difference has generated this whole thread.
The histogram deals only with “exposure” while the monitor image can advise about exposure SETTINGS cuz settings control motion blur and DoF which the histogram does not show.
Jul 2, 2020 23:04:13 #
smussler
Loc: Land O Lakes, FL - Formerly Miller Place, NY
User ID wrote:
My third or fourth re-reading of the OP adds a new... (show quote)
Interesting rewording, but what is the glaring omission that he refers to? That one should review the image if subject was in motion? But if one is reading articles about Histograms, that omission wouldn't and hasn't frustrated me in the least. Tricky exposure - first thing I look at is the "Blinkies".
What frustrates me is how useless reviewing the image is in the first place - it's too small. I've turned off auto review off to save battery life a bit. I'll give the images closer reviews later on my computer's monitor.
Jul 3, 2020 00:25:11 #
smussler wrote:
Interesting rewording, but what is the glaring omission that he refers to?
BooIsMyCat wrote:
I meant to imply that if a beginner read histogram articles on the internet, they might get confused trying to adjust their exposure if trying to use the histogram on a moving subject.... such as a BIF.
It can only be assumed that the OP considered it a "glaring omission" that articles he has watched/read about pre-capture histogram use did not ALSO mention other factors that affect captures of moving subjects.
Perhaps as one example, he considers that if they were monitoring and attempting to adjust the histogram whilst panning a BIF they may get "confused" and adjust the wrong setting, e.g. to push the histogram to the right they may adjust speed too far, thus getting blurred movement.
Unfortunately his posts are rather ambiguous
Jul 3, 2020 19:51:42 #
BooIsMyCat wrote:
I have been reading up on the use of histograms an... (show quote)
I do understand the value the "Histogram" contributes the confirmation of a good exposure, although I myself do seldom do I use it, maybe occasionally, but definitely not on a regular basis. Is that wrong, I will leave that to others with more experience than I presently possess.
Jul 4, 2020 04:29:41 #
mikegreenwald
Loc: Illinois
I find the on-camera histogram to be a valuable quick check on a well exposed image. If the histo is skewed strongly to either side, make a quick adjustment, and there will usually be an image that can easily be worked with. If there are spikes on one side or the other with sufficient evidence of exposure still showing all across the histogram, perhaps an HDR group is warranted.
Jul 4, 2020 08:27:53 #
BooIsMyCat
Loc: Somewhere
MOST of you COMPLETELY misread my post.
MY question was a one-line sentence at the end of the post. THAT'S ALL!
The opening comment was simply making note of what I thought was an odd omission to every histogram article I've read to date. That being that the histogram, if you choose to use it, works well with 'stationary subjects'. PERIOD!
Histogram for Beginners should (in my opinion) make this clear, as beginners, reading said article could very easily get confused trying to use the histogram all the time!
Those of you who have taught camera classes of any kind should be able to list off a dozen or more examples of silly newbie stories to support this.
This thread is like a bunch of old ladies at a social!
Unbelievable!
MY question was a one-line sentence at the end of the post. THAT'S ALL!
The opening comment was simply making note of what I thought was an odd omission to every histogram article I've read to date. That being that the histogram, if you choose to use it, works well with 'stationary subjects'. PERIOD!
Histogram for Beginners should (in my opinion) make this clear, as beginners, reading said article could very easily get confused trying to use the histogram all the time!
Those of you who have taught camera classes of any kind should be able to list off a dozen or more examples of silly newbie stories to support this.
This thread is like a bunch of old ladies at a social!
Unbelievable!
Jul 4, 2020 08:45:20 #
BooIsMyCat wrote:
MOST of you COMPLETELY misread my post. br br MY ... (show quote)
Unbelievable? I don't think so. The first thing you teach in photography is light or exposure. and that is exactly what the histogram is it is a visual of the exposure. exposure has absolutely nothing to do with motion they are completely different subjects and are taught at different times. So in my opinion you created the confusion. I and everyone else has mentioned this that exposure can be calculated with or without motion it makes no difference exposure is how much light it's the sensor. Exposure is controlled by the triangle, aperture, shutter speed, and I also. Motion stopping are blurry is done with shutter speed. There are two different subjects and taught at different times and differently.
Why do you think they are related and should be taught together. And why do you think motion is part of exposure.
Jul 4, 2020 09:39:22 #
cactuspic
Loc: Dallas, TX
I use and rely upon my histograms so that I can leave sufficient headroom when I focus stacking. There are two reason I have to leave some headroom (expose a little to the left) when I focus stack
The first reason has to do with the nature of a focus stack. A hot spot is at it’s absolute brightest when it is in focus. To effectively meter it, I would have to find the one frame where the hottest part of the image was in focus and spot meter. As a practical, It would be difficult to determine which hotspot at what depth would yield the brightest exposure.
To he second reason is that my favorite stacking method adds a little contrast to the completed image. I often use the Pmax method In Zerene. Often my brightest areas gain a stop to a stop and a half of brightness.
So I rely on my histogram so that I can leave enough headroom to ensure that highlights are not clipped in the final composite image.
Irwin
The first reason has to do with the nature of a focus stack. A hot spot is at it’s absolute brightest when it is in focus. To effectively meter it, I would have to find the one frame where the hottest part of the image was in focus and spot meter. As a practical, It would be difficult to determine which hotspot at what depth would yield the brightest exposure.
To he second reason is that my favorite stacking method adds a little contrast to the completed image. I often use the Pmax method In Zerene. Often my brightest areas gain a stop to a stop and a half of brightness.
So I rely on my histogram so that I can leave enough headroom to ensure that highlights are not clipped in the final composite image.
Irwin
Jul 4, 2020 15:59:21 #
I will use histogram in landscape to acheve my luminosity or I use it to confirm my setting after shooting
Jul 4, 2020 17:17:42 #
BooIsMyCat wrote:
MOST of you COMPLETELY misread my post.
MY question was a one-line sentence at the end of the post. THAT'S ALL!
MY question was a one-line sentence at the end of the post. THAT'S ALL!
But preceded by an ambiguous preamble that now appears to have nothing to do with the "question".
BooIsMyCat wrote:
The opening comment was simply making note of what I thought was an odd omission to every histogram article I've read to date. That being that the histogram, if you choose to use it, works well with 'stationary subjects'. PERIOD!
But within this you refer to "motion" and "moving subject" and these being "glaring omissions". And now even more ambiguity, "works well with 'stationary subjects'. PERIOD!". If you are suggesting by the use of the term "PERIOD" that use of the histogram can not work well with 'motion' involved in taking the capture that would not be correct in ALL situations.
BooIsMyCat wrote:
Histogram for Beginners should (in my opinion) make this clear, as beginners, reading said article could very easily get confused trying to use the histogram all the time!
But you fail to define or elaborate on how 'you' consider that "motion" could confuse the beginner attempting to use a histogram.
BooIsMyCat wrote:
Those of you who have taught camera classes of any kind should be able to list off a dozen or more examples of silly newbie stories to support this.
Some examples of the "silly newbie stories supporting this" in your preamble would have given more clarity to your post, but you omitted this. What may be obvious to you may not be obvious to others or even correct.
BooIsMyCat wrote:
This thread is like a bunch of old ladies at a social!
Unbelievable!
Unbelievable!
It's what happens when people are left guessing due to so much ambiguity in a poorly thought out initial post.
Jul 6, 2020 21:41:47 #
smussler
Loc: Land O Lakes, FL - Formerly Miller Place, NY
Grahame wrote:
It's what happens when people are left guessing due to so much ambiguity in a poorly thought out initial post.
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