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Do You Use Your Histogram
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Jun 29, 2020 17:09:23   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Blinkies indicate potentially overexposed or near overexposure in the camera processed jpg. The RAW file contains more data that is potentially available through processing. Here are some examples I posted in another section on UHH. You can see where the SOOC image appears to have been overexposed. In reality, the RAW files contained considerable information.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648979-1.html
--Bob
BooIsMyCat wrote:
Can you expand on that?
Blinkies are not so important on areas of little concern and don't they only indicate over-exposure?

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Jun 29, 2020 17:36:25   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
rmalarz wrote:
Blinkies indicate potentially overexposed or near overexposure in the camera processed jpg. The RAW file contains more data that is potentially available through processing. Here are some examples I posted in another section on UHH. You can see where the SOOC image appears to have been overexposed. In reality, the RAW files contained considerable information.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648979-1.html
--Bob


I've tried the zone system and find that I prefer to work with other methods. With the advances in LR and PS along with ON1 and other post-processing software, one can do wonders with the darks, mid-tones, and lights w/o using the zone system.

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Jun 29, 2020 17:39:59   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
jimbuckley wrote:
The time when I most often use the histogram is when I don't want to blow the highlights AND anticipate that I will have to be opening some deep shadows in post. In this case, I'm pushing the histogram all the way (but not past) the right end.


It is my understanding that when shooting jpg, you push the histogram to 'almost' touching the right side but, when shooting raw, you can push the histogram a tad bit more but, don't over-do it.

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Jun 29, 2020 18:03:41   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
Can you expand on that?
Blinkies are not so important on areas of little concern and don't they only indicate over-exposure?


Hey Boo, you mentioned on page 1 about using ETTR. I won't repeat the entire content of two of my prior posts, but my approach is to look quickly at a test image (or few) to see the location of potential over-exposure based on the location of the blinking highlight warnings.

The several example images in both linked discussions show ETTR in practice, with both the original image and the processed result provided.

ETTR in Practice

ETTR in Practice II

I don't care about the shape nor location of the histogram graph. Rather, I care that I've pushed my exposure slightly over the edge or that I pull-back by 1/3 to 2/3rd of a stop to the left, shooting in RAW. In my processing, I adjust the exposure to be the desired result. I'm shooting RAW, I'm already committed to processing each and every image.

A portrait likely shouldn't have any blinking warnings where a landscape with some distant clouds blinking are two examples of how I reference the highlight warnings and made adjustments. The goal being to capture the brightest exposure into the RAW file for processing, without losing data due to blown highlights in critical aspects of the composition. The "II" post includes a detailed example of the ability to recover highlights even where the blinkies might say they have been lost.

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Jun 29, 2020 18:07:29   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
It is my understanding that when shooting jpg, you push the histogram to 'almost' touching the right side but, when shooting raw, you can push the histogram a tad bit more but, don't over-do it.


Exactly 'right' on this idea of pushing the exposure to the right. See the examples in the links just provided in my earlier reply. The risk of blinking and non-recoverable highlights in JPEG is real, but still some blinking even in JPEG does not necessarily mean a ruined image. It really depends on the context of where in the composition those highlight warnings occur in both file type, just especially more so in JPEG.

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Jun 29, 2020 18:20:29   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Hey Boo, you mentioned on page 1 about using ETTR. I won't repeat the entire content of two of my prior posts, but my approach is to look quickly at a test image (or few) to see the location of potential over-exposure based on the location of the blinking highlight warnings.

The several example images in both linked discussions show ETTR in practice, with both the original image and the processed result provided.

ETTR in Practice

ETTR in Practice II

I don't care about the shape nor location of the histogram graph. Rather, I care that I've pushed my exposure slightly over the edge or that I pull-back by 1/3 to 2/3rd of a stop to the left, shooting in RAW. In my processing, I adjust the exposure to be the desired result. I'm shooting RAW, I'm already committed to processing each and every image.

A portrait likely shouldn't have any blinking warnings where a landscape with some distant clouds blinking are two examples of how I reference the highlight warnings and made adjustments. The goal being to capture the brightest exposure into the RAW file for processing, without losing data due to blown highlights in critical aspects of the composition. The "II" post includes a detailed example of the ability to recover highlights even where the blinkies might say they have been lost.
Hey Boo, you mentioned on page 1 about using ETTR.... (show quote)


Thank you for the links. I think I skimmed them prior to this but now that I've posted this question here, I'll have to go back and read them again. I'm always open to learning how to improve my photography.

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Jun 29, 2020 18:20:47   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
I have been reading up on the use of histograms and find one issue missing - motion.

Most articles end with something like: "Never use your LCD for exposure again!" or something to that effect but, can you expose your image using the histogram when your subject is moving? Sounds pretty obvious but, for beginning photographers, this glaring omission could frustrate the daylights out of the newbie.

Do you use your histogram in your photography or is it a tool that is overlooked and left alone in the Menu section of your camera?
I have been reading up on the use of histograms an... (show quote)


I use all the information I can find before, during and after taking a picture to maximize the information recorded by the camera. That includes the histogram. The camera histogram is somewhat useful to get a good ballpark exposure setting. The more you use it the more accurately you can use the information provided in it to nail highlight exposure without over exposure.

Movement has nothing to do with exposure, other than deciding you want/don't want blur - then it affects shutter speed directly, and to keep the exposure value consistent, it will affect aperture and ISO as well.

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Jun 29, 2020 19:12:32   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
Gene51 wrote:
I use all the information I can find before, during and after taking a picture to maximize the information recorded by the camera. That includes the histogram. The camera histogram is somewhat useful to get a good ballpark exposure setting. The more you use it the more accurately you can use the information provided in it to nail highlight exposure without over exposure.

Movement has nothing to do with exposure, other than deciding you want/don't want blur - then it affects shutter speed directly, and to keep the exposure value consistent, it will affect aperture and ISO as well.
I use all the information I can find before, durin... (show quote)


Outside of the comment on movement, I think your response is the best one yet.

As for movement, I was trying to say that if a newbie read articles on using the histogram, then tried to adjust exposure on a moving subject, using the histogram, they would get lost. It would be a quick learning experience though. I guess I should have left that out but, I'd bet there has been more than one newbie who tried this.

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Jun 29, 2020 20:24:55   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
... Do you use your histogram in your photography or is it a tool that is overlooked and left alone in the Menu section of your camera?

I never look at the camera's histogram because it only represents the distribution of tones for the entire image. It's tied to the camera's JPEG, not the raw file.

The highlight warnings are more useful because they tell me where in the image the highlights might be getting blown out in the raw file.

But you need to know when your camera's highlight warnings start to flash. Depending on your camera and how you have it set up they might show up between 0 and 1½ stops before the raw file reaches its maximum value. For example, my Fuji flashes when the raw file highlights are blown, my Sony about 1½ stops earlier and my Nikons somewhere in between. And that doesn't change with the ISO setting.

If your camera has Zebra warnings it's even more useful since you can see them before you trip the shutter.

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Jun 29, 2020 20:53:47   #
User ID
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
Outside of the comment on movement, I think your response is the best one yet.

As for movement, I was trying to say that if a newbie read articles on using the histogram, then tried to adjust exposure on a moving subject, using the histogram, they would get lost. It would be a quick learning experience though. I guess I should have left that out but, I'd bet there has been more than one newbie who tried this.

Movement has no problematic effect on the histogram. The graph wriggles and pulses some, but nothing that should confuse the user. Movement just sorta animates the graph and makes it look more alive.

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Jun 29, 2020 21:15:18   #
Charles 46277 Loc: Fulton County, KY
 
Vietnam Vet wrote:
When it's too bright to see/trust the screen I take a a few pictures and set the exposure using the histogram.


Vet, in olden times we had cameras with pop-up shades for the ground glass screen--for instance, on Crown Graphics and on twin-lens reflex cameras; on big view cameras we used a focusing cloth. I realize that for taking the pictures today we have a shaded (small) viewfinder--but this does not help us see the screen for review. Must we go back to the big cloth again?

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Jun 29, 2020 21:20:19   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Charles 46277 wrote:
Vet, in olden times we had cameras with pop-up shades for the ground glass screen--for instance, on Crown Graphics and on twin-lens reflex cameras; on big view cameras we used a focusing cloth. I realize that for taking the pictures today we have a shaded (small) viewfinder--but this does not help us see the screen for review. Must we go back to the big cloth again?


Not if you have an eye level viewfinder, especially if it is an evf.
I do not use the screen on the back of the camera for reviewing images, mostly, sometimes, only for checking the histogram and menu choices.

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Jun 29, 2020 21:33:40   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
rmalarz wrote:
Rarely, if ever, use the in-camera histogram. I use the histogram in the very first steps of processing.
--Bob


👍👍 Me too.

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Jun 29, 2020 22:08:30   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I was using one of those black cloths just this last weekend.
--Bob
Charles 46277 wrote:
Vet, in olden times we had cameras with pop-up shades for the ground glass screen--for instance, on Crown Graphics and on twin-lens reflex cameras; on big view cameras we used a focusing cloth. I realize that for taking the pictures today we have a shaded (small) viewfinder--but this does not help us see the screen for review. Must we go back to the big cloth again?

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Jun 29, 2020 22:17:18   #
jimbuckley Loc: Arizona
 
BooIsMyCat wrote:
It is my understanding that when shooting jpg, you push the histogram to 'almost' touching the right side but, when shooting raw, you can push the histogram a tad bit more but, don't over-do it.


Just a little more, yes!

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