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Mar 5, 2020 09:19:55   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/cipa-report-indicates-camera-sales-are-struggling-more-than-ever?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=14683&utm_content=04+March+2020+DCW+Newsletter+&utm_term=4026664&m_i=SdQggnAW14hnyDn4r9MjxKgiQErJ0FUdfjq807zU_ncNmOCp1p5OjJyj5K_0WVlFikqPhXbSYWWmfFKq%2B6FmzoAk4M0shN&M_BT=8107633616232

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Mar 5, 2020 09:37:35   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
I can sympathize. I think that those who own good cameras are still using them, but you don't buy a new $1,000 camera every year. Many cameras sell in the $2,000 range, and that's a lot of money for most people. Unfortunately, businesses rely on repeat sales. It doesn't matter how many cameras Nikon sold in 2019 if they don't sell any in 2020.

Unlike cars and other necessities, expensive cameras are a luxury.

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Mar 5, 2020 10:08:43   #
Bill 45
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I can sympathize. I think that those who own good cameras are still using them, but you don't buy a new $1,000 camera every year. Many cameras sell in the $2,000 range, and that's a lot of money for most people. Unfortunately, businesses rely on repeat sales. It doesn't matter how many cameras Nikon sold in 2019 if they don't sell any in 2020.

Unlike cars and other necessities, expensive cameras are a luxury.


You are right on the money.

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Mar 5, 2020 10:39:48   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the sales for each camera brand. How does Canon compare to Nikon to Sony, to Fuji, to Pentax and to all others available. Also how do the numbers fit into the category of photographer? Amateur, semi professional and full time professional or even by income level. Lots of variables out there to look at.

I consider myself a semi-professional and use a mid level camera, i.e. not entry level but not profesional level and not full frame. My first DSLR came out in 2005 and I obtained it around 2006. It had 6 Mp. I upgraded in 2011 with a 12 Mp model that came out in 2010 (actually have two of that model) amd just a few months ago upgraded to a 24 Mp model introduced in 2016 but is still in production. I upgraded for the improved resolution and for a few added improvements in the camera controls and other features.

Also, as a retiree and on a fixed income, I look for bargains and reasonable prices. As jerryc41 posted, "...you don't buy a new $1,000,camera every year." True, I've spent a few hundred after several years for upgrades and am quite happy with the improvements in my photography. Likewise I am careful with when and how much I spend to upgrade my pp software, I do not pay a monthly fee to use the cloud. I find it a lot less expensive to pay $60 to $75 for a stand alone program every two to four years than spend a monthly fee (around $10.00 a month) for the cloud in that same period. I haven't seen that much change in the programs in the interim that makes it worth the added monthly fee for the so-called "upgrades" or "updates."

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Mar 5, 2020 12:21:44   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the sales for each camera brand. How does Canon compare to Nikon to Sony, to Fuji, to Pentax and to all others available. Also how do the numbers fit into the category of photographer? Amateur, semi professional and full time professional or even by income level. Lots of variables out there to look at.

I consider myself a semi-professional and use a mid level camera, i.e. not entry level but not profesional level and not full frame. My first DSLR came out in 2005 and I obtained it around 2006. It had 6 Mp. I upgraded in 2011 with a 12 Mp model that came out in 2010 (actually have two of that model) amd just a few months ago upgraded to a 24 Mp model introduced in 2016 but is still in production. I upgraded for the improved resolution and for a few added improvements in the camera controls and other features.

Also, as a retiree and on a fixed income, I look for bargains and reasonable prices. As jerryc41 posted, "...you don't buy a new $1,000,camera every year." True, I've spent a few hundred after several years for upgrades and am quite happy with the improvements in my photography. Likewise I am careful with when and how much I spend to upgrade my pp software, I do not pay a monthly fee to use the cloud. I find it a lot less expensive to pay $60 to $75 for a stand alone program every two to four years than spend a monthly fee (around $10.00 a month) for the cloud in that same period. I haven't seen that much change in the programs in the interim that makes it worth the added monthly fee for the so-called "upgrades" or "updates."
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the... (show quote)

"It would be interesting to see a comparison of the sales for each camera brand. How does Canon compare to Nikon to Sony, to Fuji, to Pentax and to all others available. Also how do the numbers fit into the category of photographer? Amateur, semi professional and full time professional or even by income level. Lots of variables out there to look at."
Google your question.

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Mar 5, 2020 17:19:18   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the sales for each camera brand. How does Canon compare to Nikon to Sony, to Fuji, to Pentax and to all others available.


From what I've seen here and elsewhere, Canon is the monster when it comes to camera sales, but I also heard that Sony has been the number 1 seller lately.

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Mar 6, 2020 08:11:16   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I can sympathize. I think that those who own good cameras are still using them, but you don't buy a new $1,000 camera every year. Many cameras sell in the $2,000 range, and that's a lot of money for most people. Unfortunately, businesses rely on repeat sales. It doesn't matter how many cameras Nikon sold in 2019 if they don't sell any in 2020.

Unlike cars and other necessities, expensive cameras are a luxury.



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Mar 6, 2020 09:33:50   #
FiddleMaker Loc: Merrimac, MA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
From what I've seen here and elsewhere, Canon is the monster when it comes to camera sales, but I also heard that Sony has been the number 1 seller lately.

But I am reading that Sony doesn't have the ergonomics that Canon and Nikon have. Just for kicks I need to handle a D850 to see what they are like. I have a D750.

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Mar 6, 2020 09:41:21   #
whfowle Loc: Tampa first, now Albuquerque
 
As the era of the iPhone continues, people who use pro level digital cameras will come to see what I am already experiencing with the film cameras. Most film cameras for sale are used and the ones that have electronics seem to be the first to break down. In many cases, these cannot be repaired because the companies no longer make parts. While we all marvel at the power of the best digital cameras, companies that manufacture them cannot sustain operations unless they can sell consumer grade cameras in large numbers.

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Mar 6, 2020 10:09:35   #
John Maher Loc: Northern Virginia
 
There have been several excellent entries addressing how culture and the camera market have changed.

In this "instant gratification" culture, the cell phone has become the most-used device not only as a phone, but for Facebook, Tweets, e-mail, and computer ("There's an app for that"). The improved sensor technology, zoom lens performance, and automation has integrated photos and videos into this most convenient, always present tool. Millennials cannot even turn it off, much less live without it. The demand for a dedicated camera, even a bridge camera has greatly diminished. Like it or not, most users may be less informed and totally dependent upon their device for the correct answer and are less likely to recognize any error. Many cannot function without it (e.g., calculator for math). This is a culture change.

There are still many who take the time to exploit the advantages of a DSLR. And the span of today's DSLR capabilities are greater than most specific users. This makes it difficult for manufacturers to introduce an upgrade with enough significance to warrant frequent upgrades. This is not just for photos, but for video as well -- remember the camcorders? There have been accounts on UHH of professional photographers who have had their old cameras refurbished rather than buy up because the old one meets or exceeds all their requirements and they are familiar/comfortable with it. How many users actually need more sensor resolution? Images are so big now that many have storage issues. It makes more sense to buy glass that can move to a new body -- someday -- maybe.

The market has diminished and sales are down but I believe the addition of new users continues, though at a slower pace. In other words, the number of DSLR users continues to grow, some buying used cameras, but the demand for new DSLRs has slowed. Some current users upgrade to a used camera. However, this reduced demand for new is something manufacturers must address, regardless of the reasons.

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Mar 6, 2020 11:04:11   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
These comments represent only my opinion. It is an opinion and it does not necessarily mean I am right.

The market is super saturated with cameras, new and used. Useless to say that each camera generation comes with some improvements and new technologies and in many cases those changes are enough to prompt many people to buy a new camera.
Yes, cameras are now expensive and professional cameras have a premium price that not all of us can afford. The second hand market is saturated with cameras and the majority are in excellent conditions and capable of shooting awesome images. I can understand that someone could need a better AF or a faster firing rate, perhaps a lighter camera and maybe a sharper lens. Sharpness depends more on us than the camera or lens. Do your part and your gear will do its part.

All of my cameras are old. Because I primarily shoot landscapes all of them do a great job. I have lenses as old as 1967 and I still use them to my satisfaction. Will I be better off with a new camera with new features? Yes if those features are a plus to my photography but I feel that what I have right now is more than enough for my photography style. I bet how many others feel like I do. I am not the best person for camera or lens manufacturers because I keep my old gear for a long time.

Today the technology is pretty advanced. We have editors we never dreamed of and cameras are better than ever. It is very difficult to buy a camera that will fail to do the job right. Lenses are better than ever. Technology is pretty saturated right now and the "pixels race" could have ended or it is near the end for dSLR bodies. The more pixels are packed in a sensor the more the manufacturing issues. I have said in many occasions that 24 Mp are more than enough for a majority of us. Cameras like the Nikon D3 and D700 are very capable of beautiful enlargements full of details and they only have 12 Mp. If all these facts have affected the market I do not really know.

The cameras in cell phone are also responsible. I see in a group more people shooting with their cell phones than with other cameras.
As I said, this is only my opinion.

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Mar 6, 2020 21:49:37   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I can sympathize. I think that those who own good cameras are still using them, but you don't buy a new $1,000 camera every year. Many cameras sell in the $2,000 range, and that's a lot of money for most people. Unfortunately, businesses rely on repeat sales. It doesn't matter how many cameras Nikon sold in 2019 if they don't sell any in 2020.

Unlike cars and other necessities, expensive cameras are a luxury.


They are a luxury made so well that few wear out. All of mine work as well as the day they were purchased. The new camera market is highly dependent on current users tiring of their “toys” as opposed to getting new users to the hobby. IMO

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Mar 7, 2020 06:25:19   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
John Maher wrote:
There have been several excellent entries addressing how culture and the camera market have changed.

In this "instant gratification" culture, the cell phone has become the most-used device not only as a phone, but for Facebook, Tweets, e-mail, and computer ("There's an app for that"). The improved sensor technology, zoom lens performance, and automation has integrated photos and videos into this most convenient, always present tool. Millennials cannot even turn it off, much less live without it. The demand for a dedicated camera, even a bridge camera has greatly diminished. Like it or not, most users may be less informed and totally dependent upon their device for the correct answer and are less likely to recognize any error. Many cannot function without it (e.g., calculator for math). This is a culture change.

There are still many who take the time to exploit the advantages of a DSLR. And the span of today's DSLR capabilities are greater than most specific users. This makes it difficult for manufacturers to introduce an upgrade with enough significance to warrant frequent upgrades. This is not just for photos, but for video as well -- remember the camcorders? There have been accounts on UHH of professional photographers who have had their old cameras refurbished rather than buy up because the old one meets or exceeds all their requirements and they are familiar/comfortable with it. How many users actually need more sensor resolution? Images are so big now that many have storage issues. It makes more sense to buy glass that can move to a new body -- someday -- maybe.

"The market has diminished and sales are down but I believe the addition of new users continues, though at a slower pace. In other words, the number of DSLR users continues to grow, some buying used cameras, but the demand for new DSLRs has slowed. Some current users upgrade to a used camera. However, this reduced demand for new is something manufacturers must address, regardless of the reasons.
There have been several excellent entries addressi... (show quote)

he market has diminished and sales are down but I believe the addition of new users continues, though at a slower pace. In other words, the number of DSLR users continues to grow, some buying used cameras, but the demand for new DSLRs has slowed."
What would the age group of these "new users" be?? My first insight as to cell phone vs DSLR's was at my daughter's wedding two years ago. She and her now-husband were in their late 30's both professional people. I would say 90% of their invited friend were in the same boat. Our friends in their mid 70's mostly retired. There were 150 guests. The only DSLR's belonged to the photographer and her two assistants. Everybody was using cell phones if they wanted to take pictures.
Next time you are out and about see how many young people use DSLR's vs cell phones. There is the future buyer of of anything that takes pictures.

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Mar 7, 2020 15:39:15   #
John Maher Loc: Northern Virginia
 
traderjohn wrote:
he market has diminished and sales are down but I believe the addition of new users continues, though at a slower pace. In other words, the number of DSLR users continues to grow, some buying used cameras, but the demand for new DSLRs has slowed."
What would the age group of these "new users" be?? My first insight as to cell phone vs DSLR's was at my daughter's wedding two years ago. She and her now-husband were in their late 30's both professional people. I would say 90% of their invited friend were in the same boat. Our friends in their mid 70's mostly retired. There were 150 guests. The only DSLR's belonged to the photographer and her two assistants. Everybody was using cell phones if they wanted to take pictures.
Next time you are out and about see how many young people use DSLR's vs cell phones. There is the future buyer of of anything that takes pictures.
he market has diminished and sales are down but I ... (show quote)


I agree. I have a cell phone and do take pictures with it occasionally. I would not take a DSLR to a wedding.

But when my objective is to take pictures, I take the DSLR.

Many of those taking pictures with cell phones may not have been taking any pictures before.

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Mar 7, 2020 22:28:52   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I can sympathize. I think that those who own good cameras are still using them, but you don't buy a new $1,000 camera every year. Many cameras sell in the $2,000 range, and that's a lot of money for most people. Unfortunately, businesses rely on repeat sales. It doesn't matter how many cameras Nikon sold in 2019 if they don't sell any in 2020.

Unlike cars and other necessities, expensive cameras are a luxury.


It also do not help when they focus on money instead of offering the best product they can make. As a luxury item, people who buy them want the best, not a compromise. The D7500 is a great example. Just last week i looked at camera prices and the D7200, an obsolete model cost more than the D7500. Why? Because the later is a compromise. They just want to make sale and tries to fool the end user by marking it as a 7XXX when it should be a 5XXX camera.

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