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Madonna, Anchor, Men in a Boat
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Feb 18, 2020 20:03:49   #
srt101fan
 
Another scan from an old black & white negative. I’ve always liked this image for its content (it helps that I like ships!) But it has major flaws - poor exposure; a hard to deal with composition. Processing it was a source of frustration back in my darkroom days. It continues to be so now, many years later, trying to post-process the scan.

Image #1 is my attempt to improve on it. Image #2 is the scan of the whole negative that I started with. I’m using Affinity and have been playing around with cropping, overall exposure/contrast, and dodging and burning. Pretty sloppy effort so far. I have not been able to get even close to my darkroom prints. I should add that I’m still very much a novice at post-processing. Also, I’m not sure my film scan is the best I can get out of the negative. But that’s another story!

I’d appreciate comments on the image and any suggestions for making this a better picture. Feel free to edit the photo if you want. How would you process this image? The background is overexposed. How would you correct this? I tried burning to bring out the clouds that are in the negative but haven’t been able to do a very neat job. Would you use masks? I’m a little intimidated by masks and layers but if that’s the way to go I’ll give it a try.

For you Photoshop users: Affinity and Photoshop appear to be much the same so I think I'll be able to understand Photoshop talk.

Image #1
Image #1...
(Download)

Image #2
Image #2...
(Download)

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Feb 18, 2020 20:50:31   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
I'll mention just a couple of things and leave the heavy lifting to the experts

When doing dodge and burn, go with very low opacity and then repeated applications where desired. Think similar to coats of paint.

Did you crop before attempting to straighten? I'm wondering if that's why Madonna is cut off at top.

Here is one possibility, with #2 the screenprint of PS Elements Adobe Camera Raw sliders that I adjusted. Other than those, I just did some dodge and burn - on the shoreline, the clouds just above the horizon, the Madonna, the water and the anchor. I simply used a brush, varying brush size for the section (no masking needed). I did it on a new layer so I could more easily ditch those edits if necessary.

I remembered reading MinnieV's comments in this topic about the drawbacks of aggressive sharpening to old photos. My editor applies just a small amount when in ACR and I let it do that.

Looking forward to seeing other suggestions and edits. Thanks so much for posting.


(Download)


(Download)

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Feb 18, 2020 23:12:31   #
srt101fan
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I'll mention just a couple of things and leave the heavy lifting to the experts

When doing dodge and burn, go with very low opacity and then repeated applications where desired. Think similar to coats of paint.

Did you crop before attempting to straighten? I'm wondering if that's why Madonna is cut off at top.

Here is one possibility, with #2 the screenprint of PS Elements Adobe Camera Raw sliders that I adjusted. Other than those, I just did some dodge and burn - on the shoreline, the clouds just above the horizon, the Madonna, the water and the anchor. I simply used a brush, varying brush size for the section (no masking needed). I did it on a new layer so I could more easily ditch those edits if necessary.

I remembered reading MinnieV's comments in this topic about the drawbacks of aggressive sharpening to old photos. My editor applies just a small amount when in ACR and I let it do that.

Looking forward to seeing other suggestions and edits. Thanks so much for posting.
I'll mention just a couple of things and leave the... (show quote)


Thank you for your helpful comments and edit, Linda. I like what you did. I considered cropping along the lines of what you did but then decided to go narrower. I now think yours works better. I'll play around with your suggested settings. Thanks!

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Feb 19, 2020 02:23:03   #
Toleman
 
One question you asked is how I would edit your image. Well get rid of the ship on the left and change the sky as the basic starting points. Select and move bits of the background to cover bad areas. Its a lot easier than dodging and burning. You have blend modes you can use and opacity adjustment to make areas match where you place them.
Done using layers and masks which if you wish to edit pictures you have to conquer. its actually not difficult. Find a good tutorial on youtube and just practice.
This is a rough draft of what I mean. There is probably 6 hours work in completing it to the point where it would make a decent print.


(Download)

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Feb 19, 2020 08:24:48   #
Cwilson341 Loc: Central Florida
 
Here's another attempt. I ran the original through Aurora HDR using a natural setting. That helped bring out the clouds in the background. I then used Affinity to finish. I added a shadows and highlight adjustment layer to give more detail to the gentlemen in the boat. I then inverted that layer and painted the mask to only apply the effect to that area.


(Download)

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Feb 19, 2020 12:19:23   #
srt101fan
 
Toleman wrote:
One question you asked is how I would edit your image. Well get rid of the ship on the left and change the sky as the basic starting points. Select and move bits of the background to cover bad areas. Its a lot easier than dodging and burning. You have blend modes you can use and opacity adjustment to make areas match where you place them.
Done using layers and masks which if you wish to edit pictures you have to conquer. its actually not difficult. Find a good tutorial on youtube and just practice.
This is a rough draft of what I mean. There is probably 6 hours work in completing it to the point where it would make a decent print.
One question you asked is how I would edit your im... (show quote)


Thank you for your reply and edit, Toleman. You've turned this into quite a dramatic image. Interesting edits. I'm normally not a fan of replacement skies. In this case my objective was simply to bring out the clouds on the left side of the picture and darken the sky elsewhere. But your sky looks good - I might have to reconsider my bias against replacement skies! I also have to look into your alternative to dodging and burning. Much to learn....

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Feb 19, 2020 13:07:08   #
srt101fan
 
Cwilson341 wrote:
Here's another attempt. I ran the original through Aurora HDR using a natural setting. That helped bring out the clouds in the background. I then used Affinity to finish. I added a shadows and highlight adjustment layer to give more detail to the gentlemen in the boat. I then inverted that layer and painted the mask to only apply the effect to that area.


Thanks much, Carol (fellow Affinity user!). I like what you did with the sky. It's what I was trying to do but I ended up with a very uneven sky. I guess I need more practice and, as Linda said, try lowering the opacity. Interesting that all three of you opted for a wider crop than mine. I was trying to get closer to the main elements of the picture but I think the wider version works better. I find the water reflections on the ship's hull somewhat distracting. Is there a way to tone them down?

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Feb 19, 2020 13:43:38   #
Jim-Pops Loc: Granbury, Texas
 
I worked on this for about an hour and when finished I can't say it is better than others. Some brought out the clouds better, some the men in the small boat better.
I can say I might have used some areas in Photoshop that you might not use too often.
I first went to the Image>adjustment>Shadow/Highlights and moved the sliders to open up shadows some. At times I've found it works better than in the ACR area.
I then used the Spot healing brush tool to clean up what I thought the film created not something on the boat or water.
I then went to a curves layer and lighten areas working with its mask. My way of dodging.
Made another Curve layer and darkened areas again using its mask and changing brush opacity. My way of burning.
I then made a composite layer went to Filter>Noise>Dust&Scratches Set the radial to1 and Threshold to 7. This smoothed out some additional film spots.
Added another composite and Opened in ACR, sharpened and smoothed with luminosity. Now it looked more as a digital image and not a film image so went to Filter>Noise>Add Noise set it to 2.5 Gaussian. This brought back some of the film look.
Again a lot of work for almost same results as others 🥺 but reming you of other tools in Photoshop.


(Download)

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Feb 19, 2020 14:10:41   #
Cwilson341 Loc: Central Florida
 
srt101fan wrote:
Thanks much, Carol (fellow Affinity user!). I like what you did with the sky. It's what I was trying to do but I ended up with a very uneven sky. I guess I need more practice and, as Linda said, try lowering the opacity. Interesting that all three of you opted for a wider crop than mine. I was trying to get closer to the main elements of the picture but I think the wider version works better. I find the water reflections on the ship's hull somewhat distracting. Is there a way to tone them down?
Thanks much, Carol (fellow Affinity user!). I lik... (show quote)


I've been playing trying to reduce the hull reflections. Using the Healing Brush does it but not in a nice way. It sort of blurs the areas. Likewise, Inpainting could help but the results I got weren't very satisfactory. Finally, I just selected the hull and then added an adjustment layer-brightness and contrast. By lowering the contrast it may be slightly better but not much.


(Download)

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Feb 19, 2020 16:36:23   #
srt101fan
 
Jim-Pops wrote:
I worked on this for about an hour and when finished I can't say it is better than others. Some brought out the clouds better, some the men in the small boat better.
I can say I might have used some areas in Photoshop that you might not use too often.
I first went to the Image>adjustment>Shadow/Highlights and moved the sliders to open up shadows some. At times I've found it works better than in the ACR area.
I then used the Spot healing brush tool to clean up what I thought the film created not something on the boat or water.
I then went to a curves layer and lighten areas working with its mask. My way of dodging.
Made another Curve layer and darkened areas again using its mask and changing brush opacity. My way of burning.
I then made a composite layer went to Filter>Noise>Dust&Scratches Set the radial to1 and Threshold to 7. This smoothed out some additional film spots.
Added another composite and Opened in ACR, sharpened and smoothed with luminosity. Now it looked more as a digital image and not a film image so went to Filter>Noise>Add Noise set it to 2.5 Gaussian. This brought back some of the film look.
Again a lot of work for almost same results as others 🥺 but reming you of other tools in Photoshop.
I worked on this for about an hour and when finish... (show quote)


Jim, I very much appreciate the time and effort you put into this edit. And thank you for the detailed description of your process. At times like this I wish I had multiple monitors to allow side-by-side comparisons of the various edits. Interesting comments about the digital and film images, I hadn't thought about that.

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Feb 19, 2020 16:42:38   #
srt101fan
 
Cwilson341 wrote:
I've been playing trying to reduce the hull reflections. Using the Healing Brush does it but not in a nice way. It sort of blurs the areas. Likewise, Inpainting could help but the results I got weren't very satisfactory. Finally, I just selected the hull and then added an adjustment layer-brightness and contrast. By lowering the contrast it may be slightly better but not much.


Thanks, Carol, looks good... I've played around with the Healing Brush and Inpainting but I have a long way to go to feel comfortable with those tools.

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Feb 19, 2020 16:50:35   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
srt101fan wrote:
... Interesting comments about the digital and film images, I hadn't thought about that.
Not having any old negatives or prints to work on (how sad is that?!), I think I would want to keep the look of an old print. The scratches, dust spots and so forth would be part of the memories and I guess you could say charm.

What are you leaning towards, srt, now that Jim has brought it up? Or do you need more time to "process" so to speak?

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Feb 19, 2020 17:22:20   #
srt101fan
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Not having any old negatives or prints to work on (how sad is that?!), I think I would want to keep the look of an old print. The scratches, dust spots and so forth would be part of the memories and I guess you could say charm.

What are you leaning towards, srt, now that Jim has brought it up? Or do you need more time to "process" so to speak?


I definitely need more "processing" time! Interesting thought re "flaws" in old prints. I tend to agree with you, unless the scratches, etc really degrade the image.

BTW, referring to the picture I posted above, you asked why the top of the oval surround of the Madonna was cut off. I did it because I wanted to reduce the height of the image since cropping the right side as I did left me with a rather awkward aspect ratio. I guess I wanted to visually bring the Madonna closer to the men. Mission impossible; your crop and the others are better!

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Feb 19, 2020 17:34:24   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
srt101fan wrote:
I definitely need more "processing" time! Interesting thought re "flaws" in old prints. I tend to agree with you, unless the scratches, etc really degrade the image.

BTW, referring to the picture I posted above, you asked why the top of the oval surround of the Madonna was cut off. I did it because I wanted to reduce the height of the image since cropping the right side as I did left me with a rather awkward aspect ratio. I guess I wanted to visually bring the Madonna closer to the men. Mission impossible; your crop and the others are better!
I definitely need more "processing" time... (show quote)
It's always gratifying to hear when one or more respondents' suggestions/edits encourages the OP to look in a different direction or to consider something they may have initially dismissed. I've certainly been the grateful recipient of many such suggestions/edits!

Thanks again for your thread; good learning for us all.

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Feb 20, 2020 13:02:00   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
As you mentioned the scan is an issue. W/o a good scan there is very little that can be improved w/o sacrificing something else.

There are many details in the shadows that simply not pulled out.

One suggestion: Scan using the scanner color mode. That should give you a 16 bit image to start with instead of the generic B&W color depth used by most scanners.

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