Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Camera Phones Performance
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Dec 2, 2019 09:48:24   #
BrHawkeye
 
The difference between a picture taker and a photographer is in the person, not in the equipment used.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:54:45   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
wingclui44 wrote:
So, you are just a picture taker, not a photography! Sorry to say that!


A highly skilled photographer with a cell phone will make better photographs than a novice with a high end DSLR which he hasn't bothered to learn to get the most out of. You can't judge how good a photographer is by their equipment.

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Dec 2, 2019 10:13:20   #
Dalek Loc: Detroit, Miami, Goffstown
 
Still haven't perfected birds in flight with my cell phone like my Nikon 600mm. Oh, if sell phones are taking over, why are there so many long lenses at sporting events like football games?

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Dec 2, 2019 10:28:43   #
wingclui44 Loc: CT USA
 
BeHawkeye, you are wrong! An equipment like phone camera, with that even a 3-4 years old kid can take a great picture, because the phone does everything itself. A photographer needs to have knowledge of photography and applies it to use all the different feature/function on the camera to take a picture that he/she wants.
Phone camera still has very limit ability comparing to a real camera. May be in the future! If it does, it won't be as small; portable; convenience as you expect!

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Dec 2, 2019 10:29:36   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Just the facts, Jack.

IPhone low light ISO: 45
IPhone dynamic range: 7.15

Canon 5D4 low light ISO: 5011
canon 5D4 dynamic Range: 10.83



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Dec 2, 2019 10:52:00   #
BrHawkeye
 
wingclui44 wrote:
BeHawkeye, you are wrong! An equipment like phone camera, with that even a 3-4 years old kid can take a great picture, because the phone does everything itself.


The phone doesn't do everything itself. The photographer has to compose the picture. You contradict yourself in the latter part of your statement when you talk about the photographer's knowledge of photography.

Equipment is a completely different issue. If it weren't, the only real photographers would be regarded as those using top-of-the-line Hasselblads.

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Dec 2, 2019 10:52:19   #
hochocke Loc: Powell, Ohio
 
TriX wrote:
Just the facts, Jack.

IPhone low light ISO: 45
IPhone dynamic range: 7.15

Canon 5D4 low light ISO: 5011
canon 5D4 dynamic Range: 10.83


I enjoy honing my DSLR skills, but also appreciate the improvement in smartphone cameras.

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Dec 2, 2019 11:49:52   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
wingclui44 wrote:
So, you are just a picture taker, not a photography! Sorry to say that!


Your snobbery is showing. They said they were perfectly happy with the quality of their prints. That’s all that counts.

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Dec 2, 2019 12:23:05   #
one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY
 
sb wrote:
Taken with my iPhone 11 Pro a few weeks ago. No editing. Yep. A little soft. But capability not to be totally discounted.


It is a very nice shot, especially when viewed from a distance, although it is quite silky soft. My question is how did you end up going to a boudoir model shoot with only your iPhone.

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Dec 2, 2019 12:23:10   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
rcirr wrote:
Anyone else tired of people sometimes getting better pictures with their phone cameras than you get with your dedicated DSLR? I'm at an event. Everyone is shooting. Even in low light conditions it seems people often get better pictures than I do. regardless of what mode I m shooting (Auto, Program, A, S or full manual). Is this just happening to me? Have the phone cameras surpassed the DSLR cameras?


The most important ingredient in photography with an advanced camera (dSLR, MILC...) is knowledge. The most important ingredient in smartphone photography is the huge team of engineers behind the camera in the phone!

Apple, Google, and the other Android phone companies have HUNDREDS of engineers tackling the challenge of improving smartphone photography. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Pentax, et. al. have a lot fewer! Combined, all those camera companies probably have fewer engineers than Apple has working on the iPhone cameras and software.

When a camera manual is over 500 pages, and it takes 20-30 minutes per page to REALLY absorb, understand, and begin to apply what's on every page, the average camera buyer's eyes just glaze over. They "set the damned thing on full automatic" and pray. They don't realize how "dangerous" that is to their expectations of the precision instrument they bought!

There are so many factors that make up a great photograph. The technical ones require a deep understanding of the principles behind the technology. We have to know when the camera is going to work for us, and when it might work against us, and compensate for that. We have to understand the basic relationships:

• Among ISO and Aperture and Shutter Speed and Light Level
• Among ISO and Dynamic Range and Signal-to-Noise ratio
• Among aperture and focal length and depth of field
• Among shutter speed and action stopping or blurring ability

Then we have to know about:

• Focal length choice vs. sensor format and magnification
• Zooming with focal length vs "zooming" by changing the distance from camera to subject (i.e.; focal length controls magnification, while distance controls perspective)
• Sensor dimensions vs. "megapixel count" (sensor density) vs. resolution vs. noise
• How the camera's light meter works, in all of its modes
• How the camera's autofocus works, in all of its modes
• When to save raw files for post-processing, and when to use JPEGs straight from the camera

... and hundreds more finer points I don't have time to list.

Most people don't want to deal with that bottomless pit of potentials and 'gotchas', so they just use their smartphones and play "Happy Idiot". Not that there's anything wrong with that!

It's always been a challenge to understand and apply the principles of photography.

Before automation, there were snapshooters and photographers, and a huge divide between them. Good photography had high barriers to entry — expensive equipment, and extensive knowledge. It took serious study, thought, training, and experience.

For about 40 years after the dawn of camera automation, amateurs made SOME better photos, but often many worse images, because they did not understand what the camera was doing and why they needed to use a different approach.

Now, the average smartphone can produce results "good enough" to meet or beat the quality we used to get from the lower tier of professional photographers. Good is the enemy of great... Photos are free after you buy the phone and pay the monthly bill. So people photograph everything, and composition is easier and cheaper to learn. We always have our phones with us, so photography has been democratized and has become a universal visual language.

On the artistic side of photography, we need to understand:

• The effects of Light on subject appearance
• Manipulation of technology to produce our desired visual effects
• Point of view
• Purpose and "vision"
• Basic principles, methods, and guidelines for composition
• Thinking in B&W vs. thinking in color
• Moment, perspective, and point of emphasis
• Sense of history, preserving memories, teaching moments, political influence...

...and a lot more.

Is it difficult and daunting to learn this stuff? Perhaps. But take it one day at a time, grasshopper! If you are serious about photography, it will take time, effort, inspiration, purpose, practice, honest critiques, hurt feelings, getting over it, and trying again!

In short, Photography is a vast, deep pool of light we throw money, time, and energy into. Sometimes, we have something wonderful to share.

It is unlikely you will open the box, charge the battery, pop in a memory card, mount the lens, and make great photographs on your first day of owning an adjustable camera... UNLESS you have prior experience.

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Dec 2, 2019 12:56:43   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
rcirr wrote:
Anyone else tired of people sometimes getting better pictures with their phone cameras than you get with your dedicated DSLR? I'm at an event. Everyone is shooting. Even in low light conditions it seems people often get better pictures than I do. regardless of what mode I m shooting (Auto, Program, A, S or full manual). Is this just happening to me? Have the phone cameras surpassed the DSLR cameras?


That depends - Nikon or Canon?

| Reply
Dec 2, 2019 13:00:16   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
burkphoto wrote:
The most important ingredient in photography with an advanced camera (dSLR, MILC...) is knowledge. The most important ingredient in smartphone photography is the huge team of engineers behind the camera in the phone!

Apple, Google, and the other Android phone companies have HUNDREDS of engineers tackling the challenge of improving smartphone photography. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Pentax, et. al. have a lot fewer! Combined, all those camera companies probably have fewer engineers than Apple has working on the iPhone cameras and software.

When a camera manual is over 500 pages, and it takes 20-30 minutes per page to REALLY absorb, understand, and begin to apply what's on every page, the average camera buyer's eyes just glaze over. They "set the damned thing on full automatic" and pray. They don't realize how "dangerous" that is to their expectations of the precision instrument they bought!

There are so many factors that make up a great photograph. The technical ones require a deep understanding of the principles behind the technology. We have to know when the camera is going to work for us, and when it might work against us, and compensate for that. We have to understand the basic relationships:

• Among ISO and Aperture and Shutter Speed and Light Level
• Among ISO and Dynamic Range and Signal-to-Noise ratio
• Among aperture and focal length and depth of field
• Among shutter speed and action stopping or blurring ability

Then we have to know about:

• Focal length choice vs. sensor format and magnification
• Zooming with focal length vs "zooming" by changing the distance from camera to subject (i.e.; focal length controls magnification, while distance controls perspective)
• Sensor dimensions vs. "megapixel count" (sensor density) vs. resolution vs. noise
• How the camera's light meter works, in all of its modes
• How the camera's autofocus works, in all of its modes
• When to save raw files for post-processing, and when to use JPEGs straight from the camera

... and hundreds more finer points I don't have time to list.

Most people don't want to deal with that bottomless pit of potentials and 'gotchas', so they just use their smartphones and play "Happy Idiot". Not that there's anything wrong with that!

It's always been a challenge to understand and apply the principles of photography.

Before automation, there were snapshooters and photographers, and a huge divide between them. Good photography had high barriers to entry — expensive equipment, and extensive knowledge. It took serious study, thought, training, and experience.

For about 40 years after the dawn of camera automation, amateurs made SOME better photos, but often many worse images, because they did not understand what the camera was doing and why they needed to use a different approach.

Now, the average smartphone can produce results "good enough" to meet or beat the quality we used to get from the lower tier of professional photographers. Good is the enemy of great... Photos are free after you buy the phone and pay the monthly bill. So people photograph everything, and composition is easier and cheaper to learn. We always have our phones with us, so photography has been democratized and has become a universal visual language.

On the artistic side of photography, we need to understand:

• The effects of Light on subject appearance
• Manipulation of technology to produce our desired visual effects
• Point of view
• Purpose and "vision"
• Basic principles, methods, and guidelines for composition
• Thinking in B&W vs. thinking in color
• Moment, perspective, and point of emphasis
• Sense of history, preserving memories, teaching moments, political influence...

...and a lot more.

Is it difficult and daunting to learn this stuff? Perhaps. But take it one day at a time, grasshopper! If you are serious about photography, it will take time, effort, inspiration, purpose, practice, honest critiques, hurt feelings, getting over it, and trying again!

In short, Photography is a vast, deep pool of light we throw money, time, and energy into. Sometimes, we have something wonderful to share.

It is unlikely you will open the box, charge the battery, pop in a memory card, mount the lens, and make great photographs on your first day of owning an adjustable camera... UNLESS you have prior experience.
The most important ingredient in photography with ... (show quote)


An excellent dissertation. I look at it this way. Each device has its own benefits and limitations. Learning to work within those parameters to get the kinds of photos that you like is the key. I have an iPhone and a D7200. For short snapshot videos, I wouldn’t think of using my Nikon. The iPhone is so much more convenient and gives me a decent quality. I put short video clips into my Pro Show slide shows for variety or to portray a scene in a way that I can’t with my DSLR.

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Dec 2, 2019 13:27:35   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
That could certainly be the case when including auto in the mix.

My point, if I can remember what it was or even if I had one, LOL, is this topic is like the "false equivalency" argument. If the OP doesn't know his camera well, how can he compare his dslr results to any other camera?

As rook2c4 pointed out in this thread, "I think it simply means that you haven't learned to use your DSLR to its full potential."


Most cellphones are full auto - and the OP described using three auto modes besides M.
He should program F1 to kaleidoscope mode.

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Dec 2, 2019 13:34:01   #
Adamborz
 
Some great answers above. I just want to add that I use to own a point and shoot digital camera along with a DSLR... now I use my iPhone 10 XR for the point and shoot. Even though can adjust the f stop etc in my cell, I find using it in full auto is best. I actually don’t think adjusting the f stop does much on the cell, but then again look at the lens size compared to my Canon L lenses...

Did I just insinuate size does matter? 😎

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Dec 2, 2019 14:07:48   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
sb wrote:
Taken with my iPhone 11 Pro a few weeks ago. No editing. Yep. A little soft. But capability not to be totally discounted.


Who's capability are we talking about here, your's or her's.

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