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I really need RAW help - please
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Oct 9, 2019 09:41:49   #
Nalu Loc: Southern Arizona
 
I have not gone thru all of the responses to your post, but definitely agree with some that you should ask your professional photographer "friend" to lead you thru the process. I am sure someone has suggested you update your adobe software to include Adobe Camera Raw. And I assume Adobe supports the raw file format generated with your camera. The other option for a raw converter is Canon's DPP4 which should have come with your camera or you can download it from Canon. It does a pretty good job with noise. It's not that tough once you get the hang of it and you will be a lot happier with the images.

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Oct 9, 2019 09:49:44   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
First, that was a typo and meant to say 14, secondly I’m 40, not that that makes any difference at all. I’ve seen amazing photos from an actual 4 year old and terrible ones from 70 year olds. That’s all beside the point. I am by no means saying I’m a good photographer, admittedly just starting to really care about my photos and I’ve got A LOT to learn. I know practice is the only thing that will help. Taking photos in different settings, comparing them, trying to edit them, etc. That doesn’t mean that I’m not comfortable with a camera, it just means I’m not necessarily selling prints any time soon. I’d rather go and take my own bad photos than pay someone to take amazing ones, though hopefully that won’t happen. The fun is in the photography for me. That’s where your comment was a little shocking. I will be the first to say, and have said, I’ve got a lot to learn, which is why I am on this forum. I use google, YouTube, friends, and as a last resort I turn here because inevitably I’ll get the answers I was looking for. Now, as for raw photos... I’ve literally never tried it before, no one warned me about the differences in importing, in the way they’d look versus a jpeg, in post processing, etc. I appreciate your response as well as everyone else’s because advice from people far more experiences than me is exactly what I was looking for.

martinfisherphoto wrote:
According to your back post you have been shooting since age 4. That said you seem to struggle with common issues when using a camera. I'm guessing your in your mid 20's so twenty years experience. As mentioned before, I suggest getting the book, Understanding Exposure 3rd edition by Bryan Peterson. $5 used off eBay. The book explains the Exposure Triangle, basically how your camera reads light and produces an exposure. Once Learned this knowledge will answer about 90% of your questions. Not only will it answer your questions but when you need help and are given advice you will be able to sort thru all of the Bad Advice and apply the good advice. I understand this forum is Used mostly by beginners, but some folks on here are going on 30 yrs plus of using a camera and they still struggle. The reason is not Understanding the Exposure Triangle. I personally went thru 3 cameras and three expensive trips to Costa Rica back when I first picked up a camera. I could use the camera, but the photographs were snap shots at the best. Frustrated I finally got the advice I needed from a website I visited, which is the same I offer to you. My photography instantly improved with my understanding of the exposure triangle. I can also shoot all types of photography with success. I'm not the best by any means, but their's no guess work in how to capture Any Type of image. Shoot in Raw is a fine thing to accomplish, but it Will Not Improve your photography skills at alllllllllllllllllll. I won't offend you again by giving my type of advice. Wish you well on your photography journey..
According to your back post you have been shooting... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 09:53:15   #
rambler Loc: Masssachusetts
 
Managing photos on your trip: Yes...download your SD card daily onto the external HD. Then reformat the SD card to use the next day. If you have 2 external drives, even better. You could also download them onto your computer, but you will be safer with at least 2 separate places where you are storing your photos. Use lots of folders identified with meaningful names making it easier to find the photos later. People take thousands of photos on African trips...good grief!
If you are editing in Photoshop, why use LR? Learn Photoshop as you go. You won't have to worry about two software programs. Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom Development are almost identical. When you start to edit RAW in either Photoshop ACR or LR whichever you use, start by clicking on the Auto button. You will have an excellent starting off point. Take note which sliders are moved away from their centers in Auto, then move them to the extremes to learn about the effects they are having on your image. It is easy and interesting. Be sure to play with the shadow slider! For contrast, check out the Dehaze slider which many avoid, Auto, too, but I like. Move Clarity and Vibrance. Remember to make the changes subtle in most cases, but you will be pleased with how small changes will improve your photos.

How do you like your hamburgers? A jpeg hamburger comes pre-cooked to medium. You can add spices, lettuce and tomato, but the burger will still stay at medium. Now, if you choose RAW hamburger right out of the package, you can shape the patty to your preference round or flat, then you can choose to cook it raw, maybe purple or pink. Maybe you prefer medium rare over medium, or, if well done, keep the meat slightly pink or maybe turn the meat into a hockey puck. The point is if you buy it raw (or shoot RAW with your camera) you can choose how YOU want the meat or your image to look.
Bottom line....keep photographing fun....but don't just take pictures, make photos. Unleash your creativity.

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Oct 9, 2019 09:56:32   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
As others have said shoot RAW and jpg for your comfort. Processing your RAW files with the camera's RAW editor (e.g. Capture Nx-D for Nikon and Workspace for Olympus) will help you explore your camera's settings easily. Save result as Tiff and touch up in Photoshop or similar program if necessary. You can also use Lightroom to process the RAW files too. You will, however, get the manufacturer's intended results with their software. I think working with DNG is a bit more difficult (I don't want arguments on this point as others may differ)

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Oct 9, 2019 09:58:50   #
Dug E Pi
 
Here is a simple analogy I think many miss. The camera always shoots raw but when it is set to jpg the internal computer in the camera converts it and you don't see the raw file. If you have noise reduction, vibrancy, or other settings in the camera it will process the image for you. The advantage to shooting raw is that now you are using a larger computer to process it from raw to jpg. This gives you more control and computing power. If you aren't into editing you are better off shooting jpg as the camera processor is OK. Shooting raw +jpg gives you the option that if you get into editing later you have more to work with.

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Oct 9, 2019 10:00:20   #
rcarol
 
"Managing photos on your trip: Yes...download your SD card daily onto the external HD. Then reformat the SD card to use the next day. "

This is bad advice. If you format your SD card for use the next day, you lose the benefit of having a backup copy. Enough said.

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Oct 9, 2019 10:31:48   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
This should say Laura Shoe, not Snow...

Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Shoot both RAW and JPEG and have enough cards to cover the amount of shots you expect to take plus say 20 percent spare. Even if you don’t process all the RAW files ever you will still have them. Think of it as saving negatives in film days. You can process or reprocess a RAW file today, tomorrow, next month or even years from now. Storage is cheap.

I will suggest Laura Snow video instruction for Lightroom and Photoshop to you. The cost is very fair and she breaks the topics down into logical 5-15 minute bites that you can easily refer back too anytime.

Enjoy your trip.
Shoot both RAW and JPEG and have enough cards to c... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 10:36:33   #
Ed Chu Loc: Las Vegas NV
 
rcarol wrote:
Why not set your camera up to record RAW plus JPEG. Then you won't be under pressure to figure this out before you go on your trip. JPEG images are processed in-camera and have some degree of noise reduction applied to the processed image whereas RAW files have no noise reduction applied. There are any number of programs that will reduce noise in post-processing including Lightroom and Photoshop.


I use PSE 18 ( have also used previous editions ); after I process in ACR, and open the file up, I usually hit the lighting auto-correction button, sometimes there is no change, or, a barely perceptible change; does this mean I did a good job in RAW and pretty much processed the image correctly, or at least, according to the algorithms in PSE ?

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Oct 9, 2019 10:44:18   #
TonyBot
 
While I agree to shoot with the RAW+JPG solution, and learning how to do post *after* your trip, I don't think anyone quite hit the "grainy RAW" problem on the head. Like most upper-level Canons, you probably have a RAW (full), RAW1, and RAW2 setting, resulting in approximately 35-40megs for the "full" RAW, and lesser, storage saving, sized files for the other settings. While I've only used the "full" setting, it seems to me that the other lower settings just *might* be the cause of the graininess.

Dunno, just a guess.

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Oct 9, 2019 10:44:32   #
Margaret1964
 
Jim-Pops wrote:
This is a tough one to respond to but I will give it a try. My comments will be my work flow.
1) Insert your sd card
2) You can set Lightroom to auto open when sd card is inserted, I do not, my preference.
3) Open Lightroom and click your Library heading, upper right
4) Lower left hit Import.
5) Select a Source will come up and pick your SD Card
6) pick and choose the pictures you want to save on your drive


If you want to make major edits you can choose a picture then hit Develop
Now click Photo>edit in>Photoshop
It will take your photo and open in Photoshop to make your fine adjustments and layers if needed.

Your grain in raw vs jpg.
Not sure why we see this much noise other than your iso is 1600.🤔
But you can see in your examples the dogs hair has a lot more detail in the raw example. Raw gives you so much more detailed information that lets you draw out additional detail in shadows and highlights as your friend might have mentioned.

Your example is indicating you shot at 1600 iso. I try and keep it 1,000 or less. If outside I choose 600 or less. The lower the number the less grain/noise. You shot at 500 of a sec., your picture should be fine at around 250. Your aperture is 2.8. I think you could get just about the same bokeh with f/4. All this is in an effort to get your iso down for less noise in the picture. I think you friend will help you understand this a bit better than I can in this short post.
This is a tough one to respond to but I will give ... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 10:53:20   #
sabfish
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
RAW requires processing by you. Everything you like about the JPEG in terms of sharpening, noise and colors, those were done by the camera. The RAW file is the sensor data with none of the processing that was done by the camera.

If you're going to be a RAW shooter, you need more powerful tools than Apple Photos. You may need a stronger computer. You may need more harddisk and removable HD space to hold the larger files. You'll certainly need training and practice on how to use the editing software, particularly when you consider all the edit decisions you now need to make (sharpening, saturation, noise reduction, exposure adjustments, white balance adjustments, application of lens profiles, cropping & leveling, distortion adjustment, etc).

Rather than panicking in response to a questionable piece of advice, assure you have enough cards and / or portable diskspace to shoot both large / fine JPEG and RAW. Or, just skip the RAW.
RAW requires processing by you. Everything you lik... (show quote)


Completely agree. This is good advice.

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Oct 9, 2019 10:57:40   #
BillFeffer Loc: Adolphus, KY
 
Sark17 wrote:
That’s what I’m thinking, motivation to learn and certainly (hopefully) beautiful photos to learn with!


I'm looking at pictures from 2 years ago and I am amazed at what I have learned. I have discovered a few jewels. Jealous of your trip.

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Oct 9, 2019 11:02:09   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
A lot of people have given a lot of good advice; my single piece of advice is "if you're not comfortable shooting in RAW either shoot exclusively in JPEG or buy more SD cards and shoot in RAW plus JPEG."

The reason for my advice: There is a bit of a learning curve in shooting in RAW (as you already know); if you shoot in RAW plus JPEG, you can process your RAW files as you become more comfortable in processing those files. RAW plus JPEG eats up card space, hence either shooting in JPEG alone or buying more cards and shooting in both.

By the way, your 8 terabyte drive should be more than enough for your trip.

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Oct 9, 2019 11:22:16   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Sark17 wrote:
Hello! I am new to shooting RAW and am getting more confused by the day. I have a professional photographer friend who tells me I HAVE to shoot in raw on an upcoming trip to Africa (I leave Friday!) So I started shooting raw to practice using my dogs. I figured it would be fairly straight forward - I was very wrong. I use a Canon EOS R with various lenses.

In the first screen shot you can see the JPG (right) compared to the RAW photo (left). The Raw photo is super grainy. The JPG is fine. I didn't edit any of these or even try for any good composition, just wanted to practice working with RAW and getting them off of my card - which has also proven to be complicated.

So, my questions - 1) why are my RAW photos much more grainy than JPG? I realize ISO is a bit high in this specific photo, but even when it's not at all, I get the same result. 2) what is the most straightforward way to get to get a raw file off of an SD card and actually be able to do anything with it on a Mac? Lastly, I am probably just going to shoot Large JPG to save myself the panic of ruining something trying to use RAW if I can't figure this out...

I am currently using a DNG converter to get them to Lightroom, then I am not totally sure what to do with them after that, I couldn't even figure out how to save it to post it here as an example as I did with the JPEG.

Thank you so much in advance for any tips/tricks you are willing to lend - I am pretty confused!
Hello! I am new to shooting RAW and am getting mor... (show quote)


Bear with me... I'm going to try to make this understandable:

Answer to your first question:

As others have said, the noise difference you show here is due to the fact that the raw file has not had any noise reduction applied to it. By definition, a raw file is just unprocessed, digitized data from the analog sensor, plus a preview JPEG processed in the camera, plus an EXIF metadata table.

The digitized data in a raw file is not an image at all. It must be processed into a bitmap (array or grid) of pixels in reference to a specific camera profile, then adjusted to taste (either with camera menu settings or computer software such as Lightroom) and saved in some image file format (TIFF, JPEG, PSD...). JPEGs contain a small sample of the raw data, usually processed to look "normal".

When a JPEG is processed in the camera, the camera menu setting affects the degree of NR applied to the JPEG. ISO 1600 is four full f/stops under the base ISO of 100. At base ISO, you get the widest dynamic (tonal) range available from the camera — it contains the least noise, with the most color. In fact, a raw file can record 12 to 15 stops — a LOT more tones than a monitor can display or a printer can print! But a JPEG is limited to less than half of that range, so quite a bit of information is discarded when raw data is processed to an image.

The sensor in your camera is rather densely populated (30.3 MP), so it won't have the best full frame low light performance you can get — which would be from a *lower* resolution camera with *bigger* sensor elements on the *same size sensor*.

THAT's because, for a given size sensor, the more MP, the smaller the color-filtered, light-sensitive sensor elements have to be. The smaller the sensor elements used, the fewer photons of light each sensel can absorb and convert to electron voltage. The weaker that voltage, the lower the signal-to-noise ratio.

Setting a high ISO may amplify the voltage going into the analog to digital converter FROM the sensor, along with all the random noise the sensor records from background electromagnetic radiation (stars, etc.).

Raising ISO above base is essentially a form of underexposure. When you underexpose, you record fewer tonal values that can be processed into an image. The image is processed from a more limited portion of the recorded tonal range (raw files can contain 12 to 15 stops of dynamic range, depending on the camera design). So it's including more of the noise anyway. Prints and JPEGs can display around 5.5 to 6 stops of dynamic range. Using more of the tones digitized from the weaker signals recorded by the sensor will include more background noise. Eventually it becomes visible. You can get rid of some of it in post-processing.

It's like watching an old analog TV was before 2009. The farther from the broadcast station, the more "snow" (noise) we saw in the picture. The AM radio signal used for the picture was so weak that the TV had to amplify it to display it, and it amplified all the random noise in the background along with it.

Answer to your second question:

In LR Classic:

Preferences —> General —> Show import dialog when a memory card is detected. This will allow LR to control the import process. In order for that to work, consider also:

File —> Auto Import —> Enable Auto Import (must first create and/or select a Watched Folder for it, using the Auto Import Settings dialog).

Preferences —> General —> Treat JPEG files next to raw files as separate photos. (an option) LR defaults to hiding or ignoring JPEGs when raw files are found.

The Mac comes configured to open Photos when you connect a card reader with a DCIM folder on it. You may have to go into Photos and adjust its Preferences to keep it from annoying you.

Another option you can use, should you wish to control the import location of your files (so you can name the folders yourself, and access files easily from multiple applications), is to use the Image Capture application. It can create folders, import files from digital cameras, and run scanners with a simple interface. Go here for guidance on it:

https://support.apple.com/guide/image-capture/transfer-images-imgcp1003/mac

As for Lightroom, well, there are TWO Lightrooms (Lightroom Classic CC and Lightroom CC). Most of us on UHH use Classic, which is the original, professional desktop photo management tool. The new Lightroom CC is a mobile app that works through the Adobe Cloud and lets you share images among phones, tablets, and computers. I do all my image manipulation on my iMac, with a calibrated and profiled monitor, so I have no use for the mobile version.

Getting files out of Lightroom Classic CC in a usable form involves a trip through the File —> Export dialog. You can do all sorts of things on export. Check it out. It's powerful.

Lr Classic CC also does NOTHING TO your original files. They remain intact. You can change your mind about processing in an infinite number of ways, without degrading an image, no matter what file format it is in. Lr saves only a set of instructions, and a small display "proxy" image. It renders raw (and other) files on Exports, Prints, creates a Book, and uploads to a Web gallery.

Julieanne Kost (an Adobe master trainer and software evangelist) is my favorite source of tutorials on Lightroom and Photoshop. Her site is http://jkost.com — Check it out. I've attended some of her seminars, and once introduced her at a Digital Imaging Marketing Association meeting at a PMAI convention.

Lynda.com is another excellent site for training. The Creative Live channel on YouTube has some excellent tutorials, and YouTube in general is a wealth of information on all things photographic.

Good luck on the trip!

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Oct 9, 2019 11:25:35   #
Creta1 Loc: Vancouver, BC
 
Your friend is a professional photographer so let him go right ahead & shoot RAW all he wants.
I shot that way for years too, I switched to Fuji camera system & their jpegs are just so darn good.
I rarely shoot RAW anymore.
Look at them this way you have a cookie base batter it’s plain. So you add a little highlights, better but not there yet. You add sharpening, then taken away the shadows, add a little whites, add some red. And you have a great looking batter. (Example).
Or do you just want to open your favourite cookie box & enjoy.
I’ve spend hours & days on tweeting RAW photos to my liking.
Is this person going to help you after with your 2500 photos.

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