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I really need RAW help - please
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Oct 9, 2019 15:58:16   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
OH YEAH!!

Have a great trip. With great light every day you are there.

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Oct 9, 2019 16:05:38   #
Amaize
 
A few other thoughts. Be sure RAW cards have maybe 4:1 capacity over jpg. Be sure you have good speed for your cards, as I recommend be prepared for continuous shooting — maybe 4 fr/sec for animals, 8-10 for birds. You’ll need at least 1/500SS, but 1/1000 may be critical. (I did 1/500 on wildebeests crossing river — was too slow) When I do continuous low, I can usually snap a single image, so I often just leave that setting. With Cont high — nope, so I switch when looking for birds. I highly recommend ONLY open top Jeep, not open side — and really 3 in the Jeep max. Keep windows open and don’t forget (it is very easy to do !) to shoot thru windows for some often better angles. You are paying the guide — so he works for you — be clear ahead of time with him, things like speed, when you want to stop, etc. He/she knows the game, but you are the photographer. I highly recommend to just go after cats. You will see everything else, anyway, but the intensity is greatest when cats hunt. Leave camp early and eat in the Jeep for lunch, back at dusk. Actually, they usually give too much for box lunch, so better is to nibble thru the day and keep on the move as much as possible. Immediately — I mean immediately — download Cathedral of the Wild, Boyd Varty. You can read on plane and downtime and will deepen your experience there immensely. Hopefully your guides respect the animals — many places they do not.

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Oct 9, 2019 16:21:06   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
If you want to protect your pictures get a small external hard drive(with several TaraBites of storage) and put them on you computer and the external drive by date (today 191008 Year-month-day.) then you have them on two places. I always have 2 now.

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Oct 9, 2019 16:31:56   #
photogeneralist Loc: Lopez Island Washington State
 
I'm not at al sure where the designation identifier "RAW" came from but, as I understand it, RAW is just a sub group of the DNG. DNG stands for Digital NeGative, (a nod in the direction of film days when a negative was just the beginning of the process) thus strongly implying the need for further processing work to make an image more usable. Jpeg does some standardized work on the photo before it is stored on the card.
Shooting jpeg + RAW is a good way to solve your dilemma as long as you have abundant storage capacity. The RAW file size CAN BE as much as three times the size of the JPEG. The jpeg will allow you to see the camera's enhanced image while in the field and help you select which corresponding RAW images to work on (develop) when you return.

Traveling to Africa? Get lots of photos! I'm jealous (except for the long time in a cramped airline seat)

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Oct 9, 2019 16:33:55   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
Makes sense why you started that way, and I think the editing, once I get the hang of it, will be just as fun as the actual process of taking the photos. It's all for fun for me and the learning is the MOST fun part. It's very cool that your daughter is picking up the habit from you! I bet she enjoys it and it's nice to have that in common! I bet she wasn't lacking for help in that club one bit !! You must be very proud of her in medical school! And, we have a zoo too, they make great practice don't they!

robertjerl wrote:
Well, you aren't lacking for advice.
Some of the posts are off from reality because people don't read the whole thread or skim and see '8' cards as 8 GB cards and other things said. But almost all of them are good people who mean well and wish to help.

As to why I only shoot RAW - my first digital camera only put out in TIFF, my second and third (Sigma DSLRs, I still have one with 3 lenses and a macro ring flash) only did RAW. But the software with the camera would batch convert a whole shoot to jpeg in about 3 mouse clicks so I imported the RAW, then converted and put those in another folder with the same name/date but adding a R to the end of the RAW file folder name and a J to the end of the JPEG folder. So they are next to each other in the file lists.
I just got used to shooting in RAW and then editing. I don't mind the little bit of extra time.
And I usually shoot in full manual but my daughter was shocked to find I use Auto ISO when I took her to my favorite water bird site and let her try my 7DII with Tamron 150-600. She was home to visit after her first year at UCLA where she had joined the camera club, the only female in the club, add petite and very good looking then just imagine how much "help" and teaching she got from a bunch of hard science and engineering geeks who could design and build a camera with the right tools and parts available. It was full manual all the time with RAW + Jpeg so she could send stuff out on social media and run it through the PS6 I bought her for photo classes her senior year in HS (well it was on the campus of a local college and the students took classes at the HS and the college at the same time).
It will be a while before I can take her out again as she is in 2nd year Medical School at the University of Virginia. Mom will probably fly back CA to VA once or twice a year to check on her baby. I will stay home with our special needs son and the zoo - 3 cats, 2 dogs, a BIG gold fish and a million or so birds at my feeders and bird baths in the back yard.

Sorry, I ramble on too long about too much. Side effect of 35 years locked in a room of Jr & Sr HS students and starved for adult interaction.
Well, you aren't lacking for advice. br Some of th... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 16:36:12   #
blanam Loc: Detroit
 
You've received a lot of good feedback, so I'll use a bit of a different track. I read most of the threads, but not all. I apologize if this info is redundant.

If you save both JPEG & RAW (CRW), the combined 2 files will still be less than ~50mb on average. That means that each of your 8 256GB SD cards will hold over 5,000 images or over 40,000 in total for your 8 cards. You can also select a compressed RAW with little data loss, that outputs a reduced file size.

I agree with the majority here, that you are taking the right path by shooting RAW + JPEG. Even if you only process the JPEGs this year (or until you learn to process RAW), you can later process the RAWs for the amazing results.

On your camera, CRW is a 14 bit format, JPEG is an 8 bit format. This factor is what makes the difference in the level of Dynamic Range (DR) that can be captured between the 2 formats. The numeric value that can be achieved with 8 bit JPEG is 256 increments of luminosity level/per color. With 14 bit CRW the number of increments is 16,384. The result of different color combinations is 16.8 Million for 8 bit JPEG and 4.4 Trillion for 14 bit CRW. Both represent a lot of colors and JPEG is likely sufficient for social media posting, but for more challenging work, CRW is the better choice.

Please keep in mind that the DR and the lossless format of CRW files, is what allows you to display the subtle/extensive luminosity level differences (Higher Dynamic Range). It also allows recovery of highlights or shadows, thus the much higher quality of the image.

And my last point is that no one knows what the future holds in post processing software. Having the "negatives" (RAW) of your images will likely be the best file to have should you want to redo a mediocre picture try to make it a great picture.

I won't rehash all the other pros and cons, as others have covered this quite thoroughly.

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Oct 9, 2019 16:39:53   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
I actually think I figured out my original question of why it was so grainy and how to fix it. I was using a DNG converter BEFORE putting them into LR, meaning the DNG converter "baked in" the grain so no matter how many times I edited, it was still very grainy. When I pull them directly into LR, (which I didn't know I could do because still, for some reason, most say they are unsupported or corrupt), I can edit the grain right out. Then I switch to edit in PSCC which I think is fun to play with as well. Basically, these are quick photos I took of my dog so I could practice and the color is for some reason awful on here (Maybe won't be if someone checks the "store original" version, but the point is THE GRAIN IS GONE!!! Whew!! Thank you ALL who have offered to help me!! Thank you to jeep_daddy for the workflow tips, that helped a TON. I feel okay shooting Raw+Jpeg and lord knows I have enough memory card space! I appreciate everyone who took your time to try and help - I think the grain at least, was a simple mistake of converting to a different file type before trying to edit thinking it was still as editable as a RAW photo.


Sark17 wrote:
Makes sense why you started that way, and I think the editing, once I get the hang of it, will be just as fun as the actual process of taking the photos. It's all for fun for me and the learning is the MOST fun part. It's very cool that your daughter is picking up the habit from you! I bet she enjoys it and it's nice to have that in common! I bet she wasn't lacking for help in that club one bit !! You must be very proud of her in medical school! And, we have a zoo too, they make great practice don't they!
Makes sense why you started that way, and I think ... (show quote)


(Download)


(Download)

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Oct 9, 2019 16:43:17   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
In that case I will for sure be good to shoot both! And good point about the future, I know some day I will have it much more figured out and will regret not at least having the option. Thank you so much for your advice!

blanam wrote:
You've received a lot of good feedback, so I'll use a bit of a different track. I read most of the threads, but not all. I apologize if this info is redundant.

If you save both JPEG & RAW (CRW), the combined 2 files will still be less than ~50mb on average. That means that each of your 8 256GB SD cards will hold over 5,000 images or over 40,000 in total for your 8 cards. You can also select a compressed RAW with little data loss, that outputs a reduced file size.

I agree with the majority here, that you are taking the right path by shooting RAW + JPEG. Even if you only process the JPEGs this year (or until you learn to process RAW), you can later process the RAWs for the amazing results.

On your camera, CRW is a 14 bit format, JPEG is an 8 bit format. This factor is what makes the difference in the level of Dynamic Range (DR) that can be captured between the 2 formats. The numeric value that can be achieved with 8 bit JPEG is 256 increments of luminosity level/per color. With 14 bit CRW the number of increments is 16,384. The result of different color combinations is 16.8 Million for 8 bit JPEG and 4.4 Trillion for 14 bit CRW. Both represent a lot of colors and JPEG is likely sufficient for social media posting, but for more challenging work, CRW is the better choice.

Please keep in mind that the DR and the lossless format of CRW files, is what allows you to display the subtle/extensive luminosity level differences (Higher Dynamic Range). It also allows recovery of highlights or shadows, thus the much higher quality of the image.

And my last point is that no one knows what the future holds in post processing software. Having the "negatives" (RAW) of your images will likely be the best file to have should you want to redo a mediocre picture try to make it a great picture.

I won't rehash all the other pros and cons, as others have covered this quite thoroughly.
You've received a lot of good feedback, so I'll us... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 16:47:10   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
I will be sure to! And I know, we are on a direct flight which has been dubbed "the worlds longest flight" and sitting in coach! Should be interesting!! But hey, when I land I will be in Africa so it's alllll worth it!

photogeneralist wrote:
I'm not at al sure where the designation identifier "RAW" came from but, as I understand it, RAW is just a sub group of the DNG. DNG stands for Digital NeGative, (a nod in the direction of film days when a negative was just the beginning of the process) thus strongly implying the need for further processing work to make an image more usable. Jpeg does some standardized work on the photo before it is stored on the card.
Shooting jpeg + RAW is a good way to solve your dilemma as long as you have abundant storage capacity. The RAW file size CAN BE as much as three times the size of the JPEG. The jpeg will allow you to see the camera's enhanced image while in the field and help you select which corresponding RAW images to work on (develop) when you return.

Traveling to Africa? Get lots of photos! I'm jealous (except for the long time in a cramped airline seat)
I'm not at al sure where the designation identifie... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 9, 2019 16:51:51   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Sark17 wrote:
I actually think I figured out my original question of why it was so grainy and how to fix it. I was using a DNG converter BEFORE putting them into LR, meaning the DNG converter "baked in" the grain so no matter how many times I edited, it was still very grainy. When I pull them directly into LR, (which I didn't know I could do because still, for some reason, most say they are unsupported or corrupt), I can edit the grain right out. Then I switch to edit in PSCC which I think is fun to play with as well. Basically, these are quick photos I took of my dog so I could practice and the color is for some reason awful on here (Maybe won't be if someone checks the "store original" version, but the point is THE GRAIN IS GONE!!! Whew!! Thank you ALL who have offered to help me!! Thank you to jeep_daddy for the workflow tips, that helped a TON. I feel okay shooting Raw+Jpeg and lord knows I have enough memory card space! I appreciate everyone who took your time to try and help - I think the grain at least, was a simple mistake of converting to a different file type before trying to edit thinking it was still as editable as a RAW photo.
I actually think I figured out my original questio... (show quote)


Looks like you have it figured out.

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Oct 9, 2019 16:59:06   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
You really don't have the time to 'learn' to shoot RAW before you leave on your trip. The good news is that you don't have to. You will need to learn to post process RAW files, which will take time but will be very important to your work, and can be done after the fact. My suggestion would be to shoot RAW + Jpeg OR, wait for it, RAW only. That said, what you will need to learn is post processing for RAW files. I would strongly suggest Lightroom for that using the subscription that includes Photoshop. Others are available as well. I also highly recommend Laura Shoes videos on Lr for about $100, less when on sale. My personal process is to upload my files to Lr as RAW and save them in two different places as uploaded. I do almost all (90% +) my post processing work with RAW files. There IS a learning curve, but it can be lots of fun. Best of luck.

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Oct 9, 2019 17:02:00   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Sark17 wrote:
I actually think I figured out my original question of why it was so grainy and how to fix it. I was using a DNG converter BEFORE putting them into LR, meaning the DNG converter "baked in" the grain so no matter how many times I edited, it was still very grainy. When I pull them directly into LR, (which I didn't know I could do because still, for some reason, most say they are unsupported or corrupt), I can edit the grain right out. Then I switch to edit in PSCC which I think is fun to play with as well. Basically, these are quick photos I took of my dog so I could practice and the color is for some reason awful on here (Maybe won't be if someone checks the "store original" version, but the point is THE GRAIN IS GONE!!! Whew!! Thank you ALL who have offered to help me!! I *think* I feel okay shooting Raw+Jpeg and lord knows I have enough memory card space! I appreciate everyone who took your time to try and help - I think the grain at least, was a simple mistake of converting to a different file type before trying to edit thinking it was still as editable as a RAW photo.
I actually think I figured out my original questio... (show quote)


These new examples look great. You're about to leave so these questions / comments may not seem important. If / when you get a chance, consider:

1. You've referenced LRCC in a few of your posts as well as problems with importing EOS-R RAW files. You should have Lightroom Classic installed, rather than Lightroom Creative Cloud. The LRCC is intended for mobile devices, not full-fledged computers. Is this possibly the root cause of your issue?

2. You referenced the DNG baking-in the noise. This may be a good description, but that's not the actual situation. If the issue proves to be LRCC vs LRClassic, a number of issues may be resolved by clarifying and correcting the software involved.

3. Within LR Classic, importing a DNG will trigger the same defaults for NR as importing the corresponding RAW file. The images within this linked discussion shows the tabs where you can evaluate the default NR applied by LR as well as giving ideas on how / where to modify these defaults when editing your images. Basics of noise processing

Have a great trip. Remember that your RAW files are forever. You can always revisit them and start anew as if you shot them yesterday.

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Oct 9, 2019 17:12:44   #
Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
I wonder if what I have is Lightroom Classic because it is an actual program on my computer? I did get it from signing up for the monthly $10 subscription though. I went to check if that is in fact what I have, and it seems to be, but when I go to "about" it doesn't give any name other than Lightroom. Maybe that wasn't my issue with the grain then being the DNG converter? I guess I don't know why it was so bad and I couldn't get rid of it, but with one little swipe of the noise reduction slider now in LR, it goes totally away. I was thinking every RAW photo would be that grainy and didn't see the point, playing with the photos now, I see how easy it is to fix that issue at least. The rest can come with time, practice, YouTube, patience, and hopefully you guys!

Does that sound like the real Lightroom to you? If not, I bet that's the issue. It is odd how it recognizes some and not others..

Thank you for your help CHG_CANON, I appreciate it!!

CHG_CANON wrote:
These new examples look great. You're about to leave so these questions / comments may not seem important. If / when you get a chance, consider:

1. You've referenced LRCC in a few of your posts as well as problems with importing EOS-R RAW files. You should have Lightroom Classic installed, rather than Lightroom Creative Cloud. The LRCC is intended for mobile devices, not full-fledged computers. Is this possibly the root cause of your issue?

2. You referenced the DNG baking-in the noise. This may be a good description, but that's not the actual situation. If the issue proves to be LRCC vs LRClassic, a number of issues may be resolved by clarifying and correcting the software involved.

3. Within LR Classic, importing a DNG will trigger the same defaults for NR as importing the corresponding RAW file. The images within this linked discussion shows the tabs where you can evaluate the default NR applied by LR as well as giving ideas on how / where to modify these defaults when editing your images. Basics of noise processing

Have a great trip. Remember that your RAW files are forever. You can always revisit them and start anew as if you shot them yesterday.
These new examples look great. You're about to lea... (show quote)

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Oct 9, 2019 17:17:35   #
hassighedgehog Loc: Corona, CA
 
Simplest way of think about RAW is that it is like undeveloped film. You do the development in the software you use. JPEG is more like a polaroid, developed in camera.

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Oct 9, 2019 17:49:54   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Sark17 wrote:
Makes sense why you started that way, and I think the editing, once I get the hang of it, will be just as fun as the actual process of taking the photos. It's all for fun for me and the learning is the MOST fun part. It's very cool that your daughter is picking up the habit from you! I bet she enjoys it and it's nice to have that in common! I bet she wasn't lacking for help in that club one bit !! You must be very proud of her in medical school! And, we have a zoo too, they make great practice don't they!
Makes sense why you started that way, and I think ... (show quote)


I see below you got rid of the excess grain/noise, glad for you.

Now, do you know how to avoid nose prints on the front of the lenses unless you use a tele from across the yard?
Esp my Irish Shorty Jack Russell mix Tara has to see what Papa is pointing at her and sticks her noise inside the lens hood.

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