Astral photography and telescope
Sep 2, 2019 16:51:43 #
Pbrico
Loc: Wisconsin
Looking for help in getting a telescope to take astral pictures with my Nikon cameras. Would like a telescope setup that’s not terribly expensive and not requiring a Nasa engineering degree to setup.
Looked at the Celestron VX versus NexStar 130slt.
I read the recommendations for starter telescopes and the other ones are very confusing as to ordering everything necessary.
Any help would be fantastic.
Looked at the Celestron VX versus NexStar 130slt.
I read the recommendations for starter telescopes and the other ones are very confusing as to ordering everything necessary.
Any help would be fantastic.
Sep 2, 2019 17:36:10 #
Where to start! (Side note, even tho this will come across somewhat negatively, this is a great hobby, but it is very demanding)
AP is a very complex and expensive hobby. In your second sentence you mentioned both in a negative way. If you truly feel that way, this is not the hobby for you. On top of learning to use the equipment, you also need to learn how to acquire images and more importantly, process images. There is expense related to imaging processing software and their is also a learning curve.
Have you looked in your area for any astronomy clubs? This is a great place to get your feet wet. The ppl there are very open to showing you their equipment. This is really the best source before you jump into this hobby.
You also mentioned that you already have a DSLR. You could use your current DSLR and lenses and match it up with something like https://www.ioptron.com/product-p/3550.htm (don’t forget you need the tripod). If you stay in this hobby, you will always like one of these, so you aren’t wasting money. Keep in mind, you will need to find your way around the sky with this.
From this point, you have tons of options and it depends on your budget. The biggest mistake ppl have when entering this hobby is that they cheap out on the mount. The mount is the most important tool you have. From a beginners perspective, the Celestron AVX is a good choice. Then you would need to pick a telescope. There are many options on this, but I would start with a refractor that is 80mm or less. If you buy a nice one, it is another piece of equipment you will always keep. These are great at doing some of the wider field targets, like Nebula.
With the thousands of options, it would be better to get more info from you with what direction you want to go, what is your highest budget, where do you live (what are your skies like), etc.
AP is a very complex and expensive hobby. In your second sentence you mentioned both in a negative way. If you truly feel that way, this is not the hobby for you. On top of learning to use the equipment, you also need to learn how to acquire images and more importantly, process images. There is expense related to imaging processing software and their is also a learning curve.
Have you looked in your area for any astronomy clubs? This is a great place to get your feet wet. The ppl there are very open to showing you their equipment. This is really the best source before you jump into this hobby.
You also mentioned that you already have a DSLR. You could use your current DSLR and lenses and match it up with something like https://www.ioptron.com/product-p/3550.htm (don’t forget you need the tripod). If you stay in this hobby, you will always like one of these, so you aren’t wasting money. Keep in mind, you will need to find your way around the sky with this.
From this point, you have tons of options and it depends on your budget. The biggest mistake ppl have when entering this hobby is that they cheap out on the mount. The mount is the most important tool you have. From a beginners perspective, the Celestron AVX is a good choice. Then you would need to pick a telescope. There are many options on this, but I would start with a refractor that is 80mm or less. If you buy a nice one, it is another piece of equipment you will always keep. These are great at doing some of the wider field targets, like Nebula.
With the thousands of options, it would be better to get more info from you with what direction you want to go, what is your highest budget, where do you live (what are your skies like), etc.
Sep 2, 2019 18:11:01 #
Pbrico
Loc: Wisconsin
I’m in Very north Fresno California where it’s moderately dark at night still. Skies are almost always clear but a fair amount of light pollution. Don’t hVe much clouds or fob until the winter months. Budget is under $1500.
I like to see the planets and would like to delve in on galaxies and nebulas.
I am unclear on the imaging processing. I see before and after pictures that are night and day. I’m going to assume hours are spent on the Computer to stack images and bring out what you’re looking at.
I like to see the planets and would like to delve in on galaxies and nebulas.
I am unclear on the imaging processing. I see before and after pictures that are night and day. I’m going to assume hours are spent on the Computer to stack images and bring out what you’re looking at.
Sep 2, 2019 19:11:20 #
William Optics has some good smaller refractors and check out Astrotech. You will find that different telescopes are better at doing different things. A telescope good for planets are not going to be the best for doing galaxies or Nebula. The < 80mm refractors are best to start out on. You will eventually want to get an autoguider, with these smaller refractors, you can get into autoguiding fairly cheaply.
I believe Nikon has a version of BackyardEOS. Possibly called BackyardNikon. Check that out.
I believe Nikon has a version of BackyardEOS. Possibly called BackyardNikon. Check that out.
Sep 2, 2019 19:55:16 #
Welcome to the ugly Hhog , Europa hit all the bases . I Didn't have more than $300 when I jumped in with both feet. Pbrico , I hope you decide to enjoy what we're graced with up there.
Sep 2, 2019 21:01:27 #
Hi, and Welcome to UHH Astrophotography!
Ah, another victim finds the spiders web of this.
Your budget won't take you far in this habit. It can get you started, but you will be frustrated soon.
I think finding any astronomy clubs is great advice.
At least you have an idea of your first endeavors, Solar system/planetary. So you can do your research as to what equipment will get you started. Also, right now there are planets in view.
But if you are interested in starting now, you could begin shooting Star Trails tonight with your DSLR, the widest lens you have, and a tripod. Looky here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Startrails&rlz=1C1CHBH_enUS779US779&oq=Startrails&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4623j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
This is great, free software, to build your images into star trails. If you add an Intervalometer to run your camera you can get series images to stitch together in Startrails. What's an Intervalometer? https://expertphotography.com/intervalometer-photography/
Doing Startrails is a basic beginning to get you started. I started this way, bundled up, operating a shutter release and using my cameras time release function.
I quickly saw the use of an Intervalometer and ordered a wired variety. Now I have a wireless type and can run it from inside the house if I want to.
Stellarium can get you started finding the objects in the sky today, for tonight. Also Free.
https://stellarium.org/ You need to download the correct one for your computer. So look at the options at the top of the linked page.
Like Brian said, the more you can do for Mount, the better your future will be in Astrophotography.
6 of us here got on the AVX bandwagon shortly after it came out. Myself included.
3 of us had catastrophic failures that required returning to Celestron for repairs. Two of us twice.
I still run my AVX. I use a 12 volt AGM battery to run mine. Then charge the battery with my mount disconnected. That has been my proven work around for my lack of trust in Celestron's Chinese electronics.
The same electronics were used in other products, and suffered the same failures in England and other places in the world.
Unfortunately there are few choices to get around Chinese Electronics in astronomy mounts.
But a tracking mount with guidance is really paramount for imaging.
There are so many things you will encounter trying to take pictures of space objects. Earthly vibrations, atmospheric disruptions, and keeping your intended object dead still (Guiding). It's an entirely different ballgame from taking pictures of Earth things, which is what a DSLR is made for.
I started with Star Trails. It was easy. Then one night I took my 20-60x spotting scope out to look at the night sky. Eventually I managed to find The Great Orion Nebula. It was tiny!
But I decided that was what I wanted to do, take pictures of the night sky. Nebula and Deep Space Objects.
I figured if I could reach DSO's, I could come back for the Planets and Moon, later. But DSO and Nebula remain my first love and fascination.
As I researched how to take images of my targeted desires, I found smaller and smaller telescopes were the norm, with better and better optics. I chose an Orion ED80 T.
That is: Extra low Dispersion, 80 mm aperture, triple apochromatic lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apochromat
While my choice was towards the lesser expensive option, it is the higher end for Astrophotography. And a refractor telescope. My next best choice was a 100mm and would have set me back at the $2700 mark for a mere 20 mm increase. So I got the $1,000 telescope. After all, I had a lot of other things to buy.
You will likely find your DSLR isn't going to get you very far in outer space. Mine is rigged to mount to my telescope, but the images are so very wide field that the Ring Nebula looks like the eye of a needle.
So I recommend dedicated Astro Cameras for a lot of reasons. First is they are totally electronically controlled. No moving parts.
They just sit there and gather photons from DSO that may or may not actually still exist in our time. Then the timed image is saved to stack, or is stacked by the software running the camera. Building a perceptible image for us to see. I did not want to give my DSLR that kind of abuse. They are finite and do wear out.
Taking 3,000+ images for a Star Trail image in a single night is a considerable amount of whacking of the cameras shutter. Last time I checked my DSLR had something over 80,000 shutter operations. A lot of those have to do with night sky attempts, like star trails, or time lapse imaging.
So there is an intro. Make some Star Trails, explore with Stellarium, and decide what you really want to focus on.
Then study the ways to get those images. Because it takes more than generalities. Each aspect, Planetary, Solar System, Deep Space, each calls for a different approach. Each can call for a different set-up of equipment.
And as Brian said, it can consume large amounts of funds to go where you choose to go.
And know that you will not be able to take Hubble images from Earth. Lord no. Those are actually manufactured.
But you can have a lot of fun trying, and lose a lot of sleep, even wake up out at your telescope and mount with an image on your computer having not watched it become there. Or a bunch of odd appearing hash that looks nothing like what you hoped for.
Do you know where Polaris is? You will making star trails. It's the star that stays almost centered.
Welcome to Insomnia.
Ah, another victim finds the spiders web of this.
Your budget won't take you far in this habit. It can get you started, but you will be frustrated soon.
I think finding any astronomy clubs is great advice.
At least you have an idea of your first endeavors, Solar system/planetary. So you can do your research as to what equipment will get you started. Also, right now there are planets in view.
But if you are interested in starting now, you could begin shooting Star Trails tonight with your DSLR, the widest lens you have, and a tripod. Looky here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Startrails&rlz=1C1CHBH_enUS779US779&oq=Startrails&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4623j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
This is great, free software, to build your images into star trails. If you add an Intervalometer to run your camera you can get series images to stitch together in Startrails. What's an Intervalometer? https://expertphotography.com/intervalometer-photography/
Doing Startrails is a basic beginning to get you started. I started this way, bundled up, operating a shutter release and using my cameras time release function.
I quickly saw the use of an Intervalometer and ordered a wired variety. Now I have a wireless type and can run it from inside the house if I want to.
Stellarium can get you started finding the objects in the sky today, for tonight. Also Free.
https://stellarium.org/ You need to download the correct one for your computer. So look at the options at the top of the linked page.
Like Brian said, the more you can do for Mount, the better your future will be in Astrophotography.
6 of us here got on the AVX bandwagon shortly after it came out. Myself included.
3 of us had catastrophic failures that required returning to Celestron for repairs. Two of us twice.
I still run my AVX. I use a 12 volt AGM battery to run mine. Then charge the battery with my mount disconnected. That has been my proven work around for my lack of trust in Celestron's Chinese electronics.
The same electronics were used in other products, and suffered the same failures in England and other places in the world.
Unfortunately there are few choices to get around Chinese Electronics in astronomy mounts.
But a tracking mount with guidance is really paramount for imaging.
There are so many things you will encounter trying to take pictures of space objects. Earthly vibrations, atmospheric disruptions, and keeping your intended object dead still (Guiding). It's an entirely different ballgame from taking pictures of Earth things, which is what a DSLR is made for.
I started with Star Trails. It was easy. Then one night I took my 20-60x spotting scope out to look at the night sky. Eventually I managed to find The Great Orion Nebula. It was tiny!
But I decided that was what I wanted to do, take pictures of the night sky. Nebula and Deep Space Objects.
I figured if I could reach DSO's, I could come back for the Planets and Moon, later. But DSO and Nebula remain my first love and fascination.
As I researched how to take images of my targeted desires, I found smaller and smaller telescopes were the norm, with better and better optics. I chose an Orion ED80 T.
That is: Extra low Dispersion, 80 mm aperture, triple apochromatic lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apochromat
While my choice was towards the lesser expensive option, it is the higher end for Astrophotography. And a refractor telescope. My next best choice was a 100mm and would have set me back at the $2700 mark for a mere 20 mm increase. So I got the $1,000 telescope. After all, I had a lot of other things to buy.
You will likely find your DSLR isn't going to get you very far in outer space. Mine is rigged to mount to my telescope, but the images are so very wide field that the Ring Nebula looks like the eye of a needle.
So I recommend dedicated Astro Cameras for a lot of reasons. First is they are totally electronically controlled. No moving parts.
They just sit there and gather photons from DSO that may or may not actually still exist in our time. Then the timed image is saved to stack, or is stacked by the software running the camera. Building a perceptible image for us to see. I did not want to give my DSLR that kind of abuse. They are finite and do wear out.
Taking 3,000+ images for a Star Trail image in a single night is a considerable amount of whacking of the cameras shutter. Last time I checked my DSLR had something over 80,000 shutter operations. A lot of those have to do with night sky attempts, like star trails, or time lapse imaging.
So there is an intro. Make some Star Trails, explore with Stellarium, and decide what you really want to focus on.
Then study the ways to get those images. Because it takes more than generalities. Each aspect, Planetary, Solar System, Deep Space, each calls for a different approach. Each can call for a different set-up of equipment.
And as Brian said, it can consume large amounts of funds to go where you choose to go.
And know that you will not be able to take Hubble images from Earth. Lord no. Those are actually manufactured.
But you can have a lot of fun trying, and lose a lot of sleep, even wake up out at your telescope and mount with an image on your computer having not watched it become there. Or a bunch of odd appearing hash that looks nothing like what you hoped for.
Do you know where Polaris is? You will making star trails. It's the star that stays almost centered.
Welcome to Insomnia.
Sep 2, 2019 23:34:59 #
Pbrico
Loc: Wisconsin
Thank you for all your advice and help. Everyone has definitely given me a lot to think about. I will most definitely see if I can find a local astronomy club.
Sep 3, 2019 01:08:42 #
After you invest heavily in this sport, eventually you will find you captured most of the objects you sought.
Then what?
Well, for me, I'm looking at more obscure objects. The tougher ones to capture.
While you ponder it, do shoot some star trails, Moon shots, and see if you like the game.
The moon may have set tonight. But no reason to not think about tomorrow night....
Then what?
Well, for me, I'm looking at more obscure objects. The tougher ones to capture.
While you ponder it, do shoot some star trails, Moon shots, and see if you like the game.
The moon may have set tonight. But no reason to not think about tomorrow night....
Sep 3, 2019 02:07:09 #
Pbrico
Loc: Wisconsin
I did get the moon tonight. Did some beautiful shots tonight of the crescent! And the sunset was pretty here in the Central Valley.
Sep 3, 2019 16:01:08 #
It's not as easy as you think it will be. I went down this road about 10 years ago. I was able to see the moon and a few planets and take some nice pics of Jupiter after about a year of effort. Pictures of the planets are basically taken in video, and the images are stacked with a program like the free software Registax. It's not done by hand. You just load about 30 seconds of the video (900 frames at 30fps) then enter a few parameters and the software produces a stacked pic. Then you use the Registax software wavelets, and post processing software like Photoshop to bring out more details.
Here are three videos I did of Jupitor about 9 years ago. Jupiter is the largest planet in a telescope and the best target for astrophotography with a rig that costs less than $1500. The impressive astrophotography shots of the planets and the galaxies are usually taken with tracking telescopes that are several thousand dollars. You are going to see much less than you thought you would, except for the moon.
These videos were taken with a $350 usb telescope camera at 15fps and captured on a laptop, though you could do the same or better with a dslr using live view. Looking at Jupiter through the telescope eyepiece, it was about the size of the round end of a cigarette.
The first shows video what you can get with a 120mm (5") refractor without a tracking motor. It was my first effort after learning how to manually align the scope to the north star. With computerized tracking you will be able to skip that step.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft3-pshtKUM
A year later I had bought a tracking motor and a focusing motor and was able to do much better, and magnify the image. Without a tracking motor the image passes through the field of view in a few seconds due to the rotation of the earth. See my second video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlO4vp4r2R0
The third video shows additional details I was able to bring out using Registax wavelets and post processing the stacked image.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td-l7-Pm5OE
Bear in mind the 5" 120mm refractor I used didn't come with a tracking motor so I had to add that myself. The whole rig with the mount and tracking motor and remote focusing motor and extension tube to add height and weight to the mount ran about $1000. The binocular eyepiece viewer and eyepieces cost about $400 to 500 more. The reason I bought a refractor is that I didn't want to bother with collimating the mirror like you do on all other types of scopes. The downside is the telescope is the size of a bazooka (see attached pic).
I don't think you will get much in the way of deep space objects with your budget. You can get the moon and Jupiter and Saturn and some fuzzy shots of Mercury and Mars. I would recommend doing some research on youtube and forums like Cloudy Nights to see what type of images you can get with different types (and costs) of scopes, before actually purchasing a scope.
Astrophotography and viewing are somewhat different endeavors. For the best views I recommend a binocular eyepiece for the telescope to let you use both eyes. You have to buy doubles of the eyepieces, but it's well worth it. You can also mount the camera on one eyepiece and view through the other rather than just looking at the image through the lcd screen. The actual view through the eyepiece is much brighter and crisper than what your camera will capture.
Another consideration is size and weight of scope, and ease of viewing. In your price range you are probably looking at a 6" to 8" telescope, with a tracking motor and sturdy, and preferably computerized tracking to make it easy to locate objects quickly. For locating objects without computerized tracking you will need to align your scope to the north star manually and I recommend the free software Stelarium to locate objects. You enter the coordinates of your viewing location on your laptop or desktop computer and it gives you a real time simulated image of the sky from your exact location and locates any object you request.
Here are three videos I did of Jupitor about 9 years ago. Jupiter is the largest planet in a telescope and the best target for astrophotography with a rig that costs less than $1500. The impressive astrophotography shots of the planets and the galaxies are usually taken with tracking telescopes that are several thousand dollars. You are going to see much less than you thought you would, except for the moon.
These videos were taken with a $350 usb telescope camera at 15fps and captured on a laptop, though you could do the same or better with a dslr using live view. Looking at Jupiter through the telescope eyepiece, it was about the size of the round end of a cigarette.
The first shows video what you can get with a 120mm (5") refractor without a tracking motor. It was my first effort after learning how to manually align the scope to the north star. With computerized tracking you will be able to skip that step.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft3-pshtKUM
A year later I had bought a tracking motor and a focusing motor and was able to do much better, and magnify the image. Without a tracking motor the image passes through the field of view in a few seconds due to the rotation of the earth. See my second video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlO4vp4r2R0
The third video shows additional details I was able to bring out using Registax wavelets and post processing the stacked image.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td-l7-Pm5OE
Bear in mind the 5" 120mm refractor I used didn't come with a tracking motor so I had to add that myself. The whole rig with the mount and tracking motor and remote focusing motor and extension tube to add height and weight to the mount ran about $1000. The binocular eyepiece viewer and eyepieces cost about $400 to 500 more. The reason I bought a refractor is that I didn't want to bother with collimating the mirror like you do on all other types of scopes. The downside is the telescope is the size of a bazooka (see attached pic).
I don't think you will get much in the way of deep space objects with your budget. You can get the moon and Jupiter and Saturn and some fuzzy shots of Mercury and Mars. I would recommend doing some research on youtube and forums like Cloudy Nights to see what type of images you can get with different types (and costs) of scopes, before actually purchasing a scope.
Astrophotography and viewing are somewhat different endeavors. For the best views I recommend a binocular eyepiece for the telescope to let you use both eyes. You have to buy doubles of the eyepieces, but it's well worth it. You can also mount the camera on one eyepiece and view through the other rather than just looking at the image through the lcd screen. The actual view through the eyepiece is much brighter and crisper than what your camera will capture.
Another consideration is size and weight of scope, and ease of viewing. In your price range you are probably looking at a 6" to 8" telescope, with a tracking motor and sturdy, and preferably computerized tracking to make it easy to locate objects quickly. For locating objects without computerized tracking you will need to align your scope to the north star manually and I recommend the free software Stelarium to locate objects. You enter the coordinates of your viewing location on your laptop or desktop computer and it gives you a real time simulated image of the sky from your exact location and locates any object you request.
Pbrico wrote:
Looking for help in getting a telescope to take astral pictures with my Nikon cameras. Would like a telescope setup that’s not terribly expensive and not requiring a Nasa engineering degree to setup.
Looked at the Celestron VX versus NexStar 130slt.
I read the recommendations for starter telescopes and the other ones are very confusing as to ordering everything necessary.
Any help would be fantastic.
Looked at the Celestron VX versus NexStar 130slt.
I read the recommendations for starter telescopes and the other ones are very confusing as to ordering everything necessary.
Any help would be fantastic.
Sep 3, 2019 16:36:05 #
Pbrico wrote:
I did get the moon tonight. Did some beautiful shots tonight of the crescent! And the sunset was pretty here in the Central Valley.
Here's my first video of the moon through my telescope, without a tracking motor and with a cheap $50 usb camera attached to my laptop. Since the moon is closer to the earth than the planets it appears much larger, and moves through the field of view slowly. Looking at the moon through a binocular viewer on the telescope and without a tracking motor, I felt like I was in a spaceship orbiting the moon and looking out the window of the spaceship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgBPYPuIr0E
Sep 3, 2019 21:18:06 #
Pbrico
Loc: Wisconsin
Thank you for your videos. It’s sure eye opening when you see the videos versus the promo pictures that are created by artists. I’ll definitely have to visit the next star party in the area to see what folks are using.
Sep 3, 2019 21:25:44 #
Pbrico wrote:
Thank you for your videos. It’s sure eye opening when you see the videos versus the promo pictures that are created by artists. I’ll definitely have to visit the next star party in the area to see what folks are using.
Try some of mine.
Once I got a good camera, paired with my refractor, well, the magic just keeps coming...
https://youtu.be/8PDuNTWBBGQ
I like doing time lapse compositions from stills.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFUvVCtK3Dybh27l911riXQ
Sep 3, 2019 21:32:04 #
Sep 3, 2019 21:55:00 #
Pbrico wrote:
Thank you for your videos. It’s sure eye opening when you see the videos versus the promo pictures that are created by artists. I’ll definitely have to visit the next star party in the area to see what folks are using.
You are very welcome. Good luck. If you do buy a telescope and mount, I'd be interested to know what you bought.
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