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Aug 30, 2019 09:32:10   #
Pysanka Artist Loc: Rochester, NY
 
Canon 7D Mark II EF100mm f/2.8L MACRO IS USM Attached is original and my edited copy. Comments appreciated. My edits: lifted shadows a value of 5 and increased contrast a value of 1. Cropped.

Original
Original...
(Download)

Edit
Edit...
(Download)

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Aug 30, 2019 10:36:05   #
Jim-Pops Loc: Granbury, Texas
 
I read your moves for your edit. The example would indicate a much stronger movement in your sliders than mentioned. In the edit example the blacks now look too soft and grey in the example. Some of the sharpness is gone. Overall the picture now looks flat in comparison. If your intent was to see more detail in the body, selectively open shadow over the backbone with a brush. If you wanted to increase brightness in the orange just increase whites overall, the background shouldn't change much. Your original picture is very nice doesn't need much help.😊

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Aug 30, 2019 11:06:55   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
I prefer the original even though it is slightly too dark for my taste. In my Lightroom workflow, I adjust the clarity, tone, and finally exposure. Once you do that, you can see if needs any local fixing. Adding a slight negative vignette is generally my last step. However, I would take this into Photoshop for shake reduction. Your gear should give a much sharper result than this.

If you shot jpg, then post-processing will not be as effective as with raw.

For additional help, you might want to repost this to the post-processing discussion.

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Aug 30, 2019 11:10:58   #
bleirer
 
I think you improved it. I agree you could raise the shadow areas on the butterfly itself, see if some detail is salvageable, a couple different ways to do that depending on if it is lightroom or photoshop or something else. I think you could sharpen it a bit. in lightroom you could use the masking slider to selectively sharpen only the butterfly. Hold down alt as you slide the masking slider. All the way to the right masks everything in black, nothing sharpened, all the way left masks nothing, everything sharpened. Slide until the wings are sharpened but the background isn't. probably will use some denoise then, see if the magnified view is noisy and use the noise slider.

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Aug 30, 2019 11:28:41   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Your edit demonstrates that when you lift the shadows you lose contrast, as seen most noticeably in the black of the wings. In your edit you'll find that adding more contrast darkens the blacks but that brings you back to almost where you started. I know you don't have a Blacks slider so I won't suggest it as a possible fix. (Have you found out if adjusting the black point in the Curves tool is the same as lowering the blacks? If it is it's worth a try).

Adding contrast helps with overall vividness, and with a subject like this, that's a move in the right direction, so lifting the shadows and adding more contrast than in your edit isn't quite a return to where you started. However, it doesn't address one of the problems, which is that the black-lined wings aren't standing out against a dark background. I know you have a "Color correction" section, so you could try lightening green to separate the butterfly from the background.

Your edit also demonstrates another point, which is that brightening colours weakens them and darkening colours strengthens them. Again you can use the colour correction section to add strength (i.e. saturation) to specific colours like orange. I know that you don't like to stray too far from a natural look, but in this case the subject responds well to colour boosting so you can go quite far in ramping up the colours. However, be warned that boosting overall contrast will strengthen the colours, and mixing contrast and saturation can quickly lead to an overcooked look.

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Aug 30, 2019 11:39:25   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
R.G., boosting the contrast also makes the picture look sharper although that is not proper way to sharpen. I agree that the contrast and saturation tools can be heavy handed. That is why I start with clarity and tone. I also like the HSL/Color panel to adjust color but I prefer luminance to saturation.

We certainly have plenty of tools at our beck and call. We could not even have imagined them in the darkroom.

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Aug 30, 2019 11:51:31   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
abc1234 wrote:
.....boosting the contrast also makes the picture look sharper.....


Yes, that's an interesting point to make. Taking that point further we could say that sharpening adds vividness to a picture and so does contrast, which is why extra contrast can give the impression of increased sharpness.

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Aug 30, 2019 11:55:14   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
R.G. wrote:
Yes, that's an interesting point to make. Taking that point further we could say that sharpening adds vividness to a picture and so does contrast, which is why extra contrast can give the impression of increased sharpness.


Yep. Another tool that is great when used judiciously is the dehaze.

If the original post included the raw, then we could really do justice to this shot. What it really needs is the shake reduction filter. I am waiting for Adobe to add that to LR. Would that not be nice?

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Aug 30, 2019 12:02:05   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
abc1234 wrote:
....What it really needs is the shake reduction filter. I am waiting for Adobe to add that to LR. Would that not be nice?


Since you mention it, yes . I can think of quite a few features that could be imported from Ps to Lr, like content aware cloning and canvas stretching. I'd also like to see anybody include an Edge Protection slider as part of their Denoise tool.

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Aug 30, 2019 15:00:53   #
Pysanka Artist Loc: Rochester, NY
 
Jim-Pops wrote:
I read your moves for your edit. The example would indicate a much stronger movement in your sliders than mentioned. In the edit example the blacks now look too soft and grey in the example. Some of the sharpness is gone. Overall the picture now looks flat in comparison. If your intent was to see more detail in the body, selectively open shadow over the backbone with a brush. If you wanted to increase brightness in the orange just increase whites overall, the background shouldn't change much. Your original picture is very nice doesn't need much help.😊
I read your moves for your edit. The example would... (show quote)


I use Canon DPP4 so perhaps the slider values are different. Yes, the blacks do look too grey now. I think I'll have another go. Thanks for your comments!

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Aug 30, 2019 15:07:40   #
Pysanka Artist Loc: Rochester, NY
 
abc1234 wrote:
I prefer the original even though it is slightly too dark for my taste. In my Lightroom workflow, I adjust the clarity, tone, and finally exposure. Once you do that, you can see if needs any local fixing. Adding a slight negative vignette is generally my last step. However, I would take this into Photoshop for shake reduction. Your gear should give a much sharper result than this.

If you shot jpg, then post-processing will not be as effective as with raw.

For additional help, you might want to repost this to the post-processing discussion.
I prefer the original even though it is slightly t... (show quote)


I'm working with Canon DPP4 for my editing software. I've yet to figure out what to do to adjust "clarity" cause nothing is labled as such. This shot was taken late in the evening with very little light left and hand held. I shot RAW, iso 2000, shutter 1/125, f2.8, cloudy wb The butterfly was also vibrating its wings. Thanks for your comments!!

Reply
 
 
Aug 30, 2019 15:09:31   #
Pysanka Artist Loc: Rochester, NY
 
bleirer wrote:
I think you improved it. I agree you could raise the shadow areas on the butterfly itself, see if some detail is salvageable, a couple different ways to do that depending on if it is lightroom or photoshop or something else. I think you could sharpen it a bit. in lightroom you could use the masking slider to selectively sharpen only the butterfly. Hold down alt as you slide the masking slider. All the way to the right masks everything in black, nothing sharpened, all the way left masks nothing, everything sharpened. Slide until the wings are sharpened but the background isn't. probably will use some denoise then, see if the magnified view is noisy and use the noise slider.
I think you improved it. I agree you could raise t... (show quote)


Thanks for your suggestions -- I use Canon DPP4 software -- so it takes me a bit to "translate."

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Aug 30, 2019 15:13:37   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
Pysanka Artist wrote:
I'm working with Canon DPP4 for my editing software. I've yet to figure out what to do to adjust "clarity" cause nothing is labled as such. This shot was taken late in the evening with very little light left and hand held. I shot RAW, iso 2000, shutter 1/125, f2.8, cloudy wb The butterfly was also vibrating its wings. Thanks for your comments!!


Thanks for responding. Not the best time of day for butterflies but you had soft lighting which helps a lot. You would be surprised how much difference more light makes but that was not in your cards. Sometimes monarchs are great posers and other times, they cannot move on fast enough.

Since I do not use DPP though I have it, I cannot advise on that. I suggest two things: learn LR (the investment is well worth the effort if you are really serious about your work) and post the raw, not the jpg as you did, so we can have a hand at it. I certainly would like to give it a try.

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Aug 31, 2019 08:51:20   #
Pysanka Artist Loc: Rochester, NY
 
abc1234 wrote:
Thanks for responding. Not the best time of day for butterflies but you had soft lighting which helps a lot. You would be surprised how much difference more light makes but that was not in your cards. Sometimes monarchs are great posers and other times, they cannot move on fast enough.

Since I do not use DPP though I have it, I cannot advise on that. I suggest two things: learn LR (the investment is well worth the effort if you are really serious about your work) and post the raw, not the jpg as you did, so we can have a hand at it. I certainly would like to give it a try.
Thanks for responding. Not the best time of day f... (show quote)


When I try to upload the RAW file, it is too large. Cannot reduce the RAW image in Canon DPP4. Any suggestions for getting you the RAW file?

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Aug 31, 2019 08:54:09   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
Pysanka Artist wrote:
When I try to upload the RAW file, it is too large. Cannot reduce the RAW image in Canon DPP4. Any suggestions for getting you the RAW file?


No program can reduce the size of a raw file except by converting it to a jpg, tiff, etc. I thought you could attached the raw but cannot figure it out. I will send you a private message about this.

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