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Jul 28, 2019 21:40:30   #
wayne-03 Loc: Minnesota
 
I photographed a very small wedding yesterday. Actually, my first try at a wedding. It was a nerve-racking experience although I did enjoy it. I was totally unprepared for the amount of work a wedding requires. I know that I made a ton of mistakes. But, I would like to work with a pro as a second shooter to learn the process.


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Jul 29, 2019 09:31:56   #
Dannj
 
I’m strictly an amateur but I’d say you did a great job. About 20 years ago, a friend asked me to photograph her wedding because she had seen some of the other photos I’d taken. I really didn’t want to do it because I wanted to enjoy the event as a guest but I agreed to do it anyway. It was a tense day for me but she was very happy with the results so it turned out well in the end. Of course this was all film which made it even more difficult...I really sweated it out waiting for the prints😊

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Jul 29, 2019 11:02:54   #
Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
 
wayne-03 wrote:
I photographed a very small wedding yesterday. Actually, my first try at a wedding. It was a nerve-racking experience although I did enjoy it. I was totally unprepared for the amount of work a wedding requires. I know that I made a ton of mistakes. But, I would like to work with a pro as a second shooter to learn the process.


I like these shots. Shadows are good, lighting nice fill flash?
I shot a wedding a month ago and yes it was nerve-racking to say the least. But like yours it went fine until my flash quit working half way thru it. I had a back up so all ended well.
Again nice work.

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Jul 29, 2019 11:37:13   #
Stardust Loc: Central Illinois
 
I haven't shot weddings for decades (about 300-350 total) but if these are typical examples I would say you did fine for first time. You don't need a pro shadowing you - you need to learn your own personal style and flow by trial & error. There are plenty of wedding photos, videos, articles, etc on-line (UHH has a section) that you need to take some time to invest in your craft if you wish to continue. A few suggestions I learned along the way...

1> If it can go wrong it will sooner or later - malfunctioning camera, flash, family fight at the altar photos, cake falling, etc. Be prepared. 2> Learn from each wedding - which photos work, which not, which shots sell the most on reorder, are you getting shots of grandparents, favorite aunt's & uncle's, relative whole families, etc. during "down" time. They are all dressed up on this day - ok, some not at this wedding - and many will want a copy of the photo. 3> Learn to pay attention to minor details - note the fingers growing out of her side in #1 (solved by requesting pull hand back a little); note chin resting on head of young girl in 2nd shot (a small side step would put her head between others); unattached feet under table of #4 (a crop in camera or PP would solve) and of course the poles coming out of their heads, although somethings are unavoidable in live events (unless changed in PP). Anyway, with practice your eye should automatically catch these - a shadow pro probably doesn't help but may well confuse.

And final note - outdoor weddings can be both beautiful and hardest to shoot because of lighting, weather, wind, bugs, etc. You did good.

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Jul 29, 2019 13:58:20   #
Heather Iles Loc: UK, Somerset
 
Stardust wrote:
I haven't shot weddings for decades (about 300-350 total) but if these are typical examples I would say you did fine for first time. You don't need a pro shadowing you - you need to learn your own personal style and flow by trial & error. There are plenty of wedding photos, videos, articles, etc on-line (UHH has a section) that you need to take some time to invest in your craft if you wish to continue. A few suggestions I learned along the way...

1> If it can go wrong it will sooner or later - malfunctioning camera, flash, family fight at the altar photos, cake falling, etc. Be prepared. 2> Learn from each wedding - which photos work, which not, which shots sell the most on reorder, are you getting shots of grandparents, favorite aunt's & uncle's, relative whole families, etc. during "down" time. They are all dressed up on this day - ok, some not at this wedding - and many will want a copy of the photo. 3> Learn to pay attention to minor details - note the fingers growing out of her side in #1 (solved by requesting pull hand back a little); note chin resting on head of young girl in 2nd shot (a small side step would put her head between others); unattached feet under table of #4 (a crop in camera or PP would solve) and of course the poles coming out of their heads, although somethings are unavoidable in live events (unless changed in PP). Anyway, with practice your eye should automatically catch these - a shadow pro probably doesn't help but may well confuse.

And final note - outdoor weddings can be both beautiful and hardest to shoot because of lighting, weather, wind, bugs, etc. You did good.
I haven't shot weddings for decades (about 300-350... (show quote)


Thank you Stardust for sharing your observations.

I only noticed the feet when I first looked at the photo earlier and bookmarked it in the hope that some one would respond and you have. You have sure taught me a lot, although I don't shoot weddings and have no desire to do so, but your observations would come in useful when I am taking photos. You are a real pro.

H

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Jul 29, 2019 14:51:56   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
Honestly, I think photographers notice a ton more than the actual couple (as it should be) Even more than the foot placement, watch for dappled light like in the first photo. If at all possible, IF POSSIBLE, move them forward or back or to the side so there isn't a harsh highlight. Another thing to do is grab one of those 5 in one reflectors that you can get for about $20 ish, (I love mine) and if you don't have anyone assisting, just ask a bystander to hold it up and block the dappled light. All in all, I've seen people who have done several weddings, that have nothing on you. Keep it up, start watching the little details more and more, and you could be outstanding.

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Jul 30, 2019 14:43:39   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
wayne-03 wrote:
I photographed a very small wedding yesterday. Actually, my first try at a wedding. It was a nerve-racking experience although I did enjoy it. I was totally unprepared for the amount of work a wedding requires. I know that I made a ton of mistakes. But, I would like to work with a pro as a second shooter to learn the process.


Broke a sweat, did ya? ...and that looks like friendly e a nice calm,casual l wedding with nice cooperative folks! This is a good way to start out in wedding photography- in a way. A big, heavily populated, fast moving, hyperactive (sometimes really cool ethnic affair) wedding can bring about a nervious breakdown and a bad case of wedding-phobia for a first time solo shooter.

Someone mentioned that shadowing a professional wedding shooter is not necessary but I have to disagree. There are many nuances in posing, camera position and lighting that shoud be learned and practiced, especially in the formal and casula portraits. Of course, you will develop your own style and creativity but there are basics that are the foundation of a good job. A lot of folks confuse learning the basics as a formula for creating stiff- cookie-cutter pictures. They confuse leaning craftsmanship and artistry with humdrum images- not so!

Brides, even those who plan modest wedding celebration, place a great deal of effort in aesthetics- the gown, veil, makeup, flowers and hairstyle- they want flattering wedding pictures. They want the groom and the guys to look sharp as well.

So...you captured fine expressions and that is extremely important. Your exposure are good as is your background management in the close up images.

The boob-boos are as follows: In the full length poses, especially the groups, you FORESHORTENED the folks by shooting down at them, possible with a wide angle focal length. In a full length formal portrait or group, the camera should be at the subject's waste level- normal to slightly longer focal lengths are preferable

In the bridal formal she is holding the flowers too high and hiding the bodice of the dress- the bouquet can be be held more to the side in a more graceful line. She is grasping the stem of the bouquet with a fist and that is cutting off her fingers. This nosegay style of flower arrangement presents a problem so the hands need to be carefully placed.

You gotta watch the "pits"! The area near the armpits, when the arms or flowers are held high, can be unflattering. Naturally, there is always a bit of fatty tissue there, which is perfectly normal but if you have the subject turn her body at a more frontal angle and elongate the arms, this issue. is minimized.

In all poses- close up, 3/4, and full length, building the pose start a the feet and legs- continues up to the hips, torso, upper body and influences the posture and the shoulder line. Weight distribution is important. If the posture is poor, sometime the clothing seem ill-fitting even if it is not. Guys should pull up their pants! If anyone is interested, I'll post a tutorial on some basic, fast posing directions.

Listen y'all young whippersnappers- If I can drag my 75 year old body to weddings and get down of the floor to drape gowns and trousers- so can you !

When you pose groups, don't place folks in front of each other and cut half of their faces off. Get some chairs, steps, or inclined land and stagger the heights.

Spotty lighting can be somewhat corrected in retouching but it is extremely painstaking. Back and side light can serve as a kicker but you need to move the subject into pattern where it does not cause distracting burned out highlights or as others have mentioned, gobo the stray light.

In this section we are bad boys and edit stuff to illustrate some of out points- see attached images. The cake shot is lovely- a tighter crop does not show feet at the bottom under the table and brings more attention to their super expressions.

Please do not consider this a harsh critique. When I started out, this is how "the boss" trained me- "nut and bolts"- no philosophy- just the basics- the philosophy and creativity will come later. When you knw the drill, the job gets easier and the sweating becomes lessened, even on an out-of-door gig in 95 degree weather. I just carry a spare change of clothing in the car. At country clubs and hotels on long jobs, I have been know to grab a shower during a short break!








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Jul 30, 2019 16:32:09   #
Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Broke a sweat, did ya? ...and that looks like friendly e a nice calm,casual l wedding with nice cooperative folks! This is a good way to start out in wedding photography- in a way. A big, heavily populated, fast moving, hyperactive (sometimes really cool ethnic affair) wedding can bring about a nervious breakdown and a bad case of wedding-phobia for a first time solo shooter.

Someone mentioned that shadowing a professional wedding shooter is not necessary but I have to disagree. There are many nuances in posing, camera position and lighting that shoud be learned and practiced, especially in the formal and casula portraits. Of course, you will develop your own style and creativity but there are basics that are the foundation of a good job. A lot of folks confuse learning the basics as a formula for creating stiff- cookie-cutter pictures. They confuse leaning craftsmanship and artistry with humdrum images- not so!

Brides, even those who plan modest wedding celebration, place a great deal of effort in aesthetics- the gown, veil, makeup, flowers and hairstyle- they want flattering wedding pictures. They want the groom and the guys to look sharp as well.

So...you captured fine expressions and that is extremely important. Your exposure are good as is your background management in the close up images.

The boob-boos are as follows: In the full length poses, especially the groups, you FORESHORTENED the folks by shooting down at them, possible with a wide angle focal length. In a full length formal portrait or group, the camera should be at the subject's waste level- normal to slightly longer focal lengths are preferable

In the bridal formal she is holding the flowers too high and hiding the bodice of the dress- the bouquet can be be held more to the side in a more graceful line. She is grasping the stem of the bouquet with a fist and that is cutting off her fingers. This nosegay style of flower arrangement presents a problem so the hands need to be carefully placed.

You gotta watch the "pits"! The area near the armpits, when the arms or flowers are held high, can be unflattering. Naturally, there is always a bit of fatty tissue there, which is perfectly normal but if you have the subject turn her body at a more frontal angle and elongate the arms, this issue. is minimized.

In all poses- close up, 3/4, and full length, building the pose start a the feet and legs- continues up to the hips, torso, upper body and influences the posture and the shoulder line. Weight distribution is important. If the posture is poor, sometime the clothing seem ill-fitting even if it is not. Guys should pull up their pants! If anyone is interested, I'll post a tutorial on some basic, fast posing directions.

Listen y'all young whippersnappers- If I can drag my 75 year old body to weddings and get down of the floor to drape gowns and trousers- so can you !

When you pose groups, don't place folks in front of each other and cut half of their faces off. Get some chairs, steps, or inclined land and stagger the heights.

Spotty lighting can be somewhat corrected in retouching but it is extremely painstaking. Back and side light can serve as a kicker but you need to move the subject into pattern where it does not cause distracting burned out highlights or as others have mentioned, gobo the stray light.

In this section we are bad boys and edit stuff to illustrate some of out points- see attached images. The cake shot is lovely- a tighter crop does not show feet at the bottom under the table and brings more attention to their super expressions.

Please do not consider this a harsh critique. When I started out, this is how "the boss" trained me- "nut and bolts"- no philosophy- just the basics- the philosophy and creativity will come later. When you knw the drill, the job gets easier and the sweating becomes lessened, even on an out-of-door gig in 95 degree weather. I just carry a spare change of clothing in the car. At country clubs and hotels on long jobs, I have been know to grab a shower during a short break!

Broke a sweat, did ya? img src="https://static.u... (show quote)


Great advice Mr. Shapiro. Your comments are always welcome here. I know myself has learned a lot on wedding photography. I did one a few months ago. Posing people outside here in Las Vegas was very tough. That day the temp was 108. I had very little time to get all the shots. They just wanted it to be over with and get inside. No the bride didn't want to shoot inside, oh well did the best I could. Then my flash broke, but had a back up.


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Jul 31, 2019 12:12:27   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Whether you are a full-time professional photographer or an advanced amateur, or a "weekend warrior" when you take on wedding photography you are the "professional" and you need to equip yourself with the right gear and the knowledge to produce a high-quality job. Y'all know that a wedding is an important event in your client's lifetime and it is not-repeatable so I am no gonna go int a "lecture' on those facts- it's a given!

Some folks express a concept that one can plunge into this work with little or no training and experience and test the waters- experiment, etc. So, just for the sake of argument, can anyone point to a profession, trade, or job of any significance, where one needs no training, education or at least a breaking in period with an experienced worker- on the job training. Let alone a job that requires technical skill, artistic or creative leanings and a truckload of "people skills. And...all of this performance has to take place oftentimes under less than ideal conditions as to time frames, windows of opportunity, environmental conditions and sometimes nervous folks as clients.

Over five-plus decades, I have taught, trained and mentored many wedding shooters and I can tell you that not everyone is a consummate artist/technician, at least at first, however, the first step in the process is to enable the newcomer to shoot a CLEAN job. Technically speaking, you need accurate and consistent exposures to ensure quality and ease of processing. Accurate exposures will yield the best color quality and saturation, rendition of tones a texture and keeps the dynamic range in control. You or you lab staff are gonna have to process many hundreds, possibly thousands of images on each wedding coverage and if the exposures are erratic and inconsistent, a whole bunch of time-consuming and tedious remedial actions will have to be applied. This delays production and becomes costly and diminishes both profits and quality at the same time. You need to master tight control over ISO settings, exposure, and white balance. The odd portrait or grab-shot is gonna need some fixing' bit not the entire job- PLEASE!

Composition: Besides the artistic aspects of composition, again, you need consistency of aspect ratio and image size within the format. You don't want to have to get into extreme cropping every image. I don't expect every shot to be perfect SOTC, a bit of tweaking is expected but if you have to re-compose and straighten every shot you are gonna sacrifice quality and loose time.

Posing and attention to detail: Sadly, and I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, especially on the formal and group shots, most of what I see today is extremely sloppy and there is no real posing skills apparent in the work. Remember, I am not yet talking "fancy" or super-"artsy" just CLEAN. Simply stated, our wedding clients, usually are not professional models, actors, ballet dancers or have attended an old-fashion "finishing school" where they learned how to walk, sit and stand elegantly. Most folks do not have to "dress-up" every day and we live in a much more causal world- fashion-wise! So as the wedding shooter you also have to be the director, wardrobe master or mistress , drill-instructor, coach and encourager all wrapped up in one. And...you gotta be quick at it! So you got to get in there and help folks to look sharp. I probably could have been a tailor or maybe an undertaker. I spent a good part of my working life adjusting heads, positions, tucking in and adjusting clothing, gently tugging at sleeves and hems, draping trains and adjusting veils and flowers. I,m a kind big person and not exactly the "dancer" type but I picked up a lot of gracefulness just showing folks how to pose, plant their feet properly, and place there arms and hands in an elegant fashion. Gets me some great smiles too- watching a 200-pound clutz, pose like a bride!

Believe it or not, folks don't mind your hard work and will appreciate it and don't really mind being touched when it is done gently and with permission. As I work I explain things like, "I want you to bend your knee and extend your leg toward the camera because it is an elegant stance and it shows off the beautiful shape and lines of t your gown..." etc! When folks know what you are up to, they will cooperate and not feel they are being tortured.

The next step: Once you learn the basics and the ropes, the next level is emotional content. Most of the wedding foram I see is a kinda OK- expression wise but few show emotion and relationships. If the emotional family dynamics are not there, you ain't gonna simulate them- you can't just tell people to "look romantic or look like a proud dad or a doting mom or a best-friend maid of honor. If, however, you are now doing the technical stuff as second nature and don't need to fuss with your gear you can concentrate on emotion content in your portraits. Putting people together in an elegant pose and having them relate to each other is a skill set and an art form in itself.

Now- so far discussed the formal portraits and we haven't even gotten into the photojournalism yet. Next time! Tune in!

Reply
Jul 31, 2019 12:16:03   #
Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Whether you are a full-time professional photographer or an advanced amateur, or a "weekend warrior" when you take on wedding photography you are the "professional" and you need to equip yourself with the right gear and the knowledge to produce a high-quality job. Y'all know that a wedding is an important event in your client's lifetime and it is not-repeatable so I am no gonna go into a "lecture' on those facts- it's a given!

Some folks express a concept that one can plunge into this work with little or no training and experience and test the waters- experiment, etc. So, just for the sake of argument, can anyone point to a profession, trade, or job of any significance, where one needs no training, education or at least a breaking in period with an experienced worker- on the job training. Let alone a job that requires technical skill, artistic or creative leanings and a truckload of "people skills. And...all of this performance has to take place oftentimes under less than ideal conditions as to time frames, windows of opportunity, environmental conditions and sometimes nervous folks as clients.

Over five-plus decades, I have taught, trained and mentored many wedding shooters and I can tell you that not everyone is a consummate artist/technician, at least at first, however, the first step in the process is to enable the newcomer to shoot a CLEAN job. Technically speaking, you need accurate and consistent exposures to ensure quality and ease of processing. Accurate exposures will yield the best color quality and saturation, rendition of tones a texture and keeps the dynamic range in control. You or you lab staff are gonna have to process many hundreds, possibly thousands of images on each wedding coverage and if the exposures are erratic and inconsistent, a whole bunch of time-consuming and tedious remedial actions will have to be applied. This delays production and becomes costly and diminishes both profits and quality at the same time. You need to master tight control over ISO settings, exposure, and white balance. The odd portrait or grab-shot is gonna need some fixing' bit not the entire job- PLEASE!

Composition: Besides the artistic aspects of composition, again, you need consistency of aspect ratio and image size within the format. You don't want to have to get into extreme cropping every image. I don't expect every shot to be perfect SOTC, a bit of tweaking is expected but if you have to re-compose and straighten every shot you are gonna sacrifice quality and loose time.

Posing and attention to detail: Sadly, and I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, especially on the formal and group shots, most of what I see today is extremely sloppy and there is no real posing skills apparent in the work. Remember, I am not yet talking "fancy" os super-"artsy" just CLEAN. Simply stated, our wedding clients, usually are not professional models, actors, ballet dancers or have attended an old-fashion "finishing school" where they learned how to walk, sit and stand elegantly. Most folks do not have to "dress-up" every day and we live in a much more causal world- fashion-wise! So as the wedding shooter you also have to be the director, wardrobe master or mistress , drill-instructor, coach and encourager all wrapped up in one. And...you gotta be quick at it! So you got to get in there and help folks to look sharp. I probably could have been a tailor or maybe an undertaker. I spent a good part of my working life adjusting heads, positions, tucking in and adjusting clothing, gently tugging at sleeves and hems, draping trains and adjusting veils and flowers. I,m a kind big person and not exactly the "dancer" type but I picked up a lot of gracefulness just showing folks how to pose, plant their feet properly, and place there arms and hands in an elegant fashion. Gets me some great smiles too- watching a 200-pound clutz, pose like a bride!

Believe it or not, folks don't mind your hard work and will appreciate it and don't really mind being touched when it is done gently and with permission. As I work I explain things like, "I want you to bend your knee and extend your leg toward the camera because it is an elegant stance and it shows off the beautiful shape and lines of t your gown..." etc! When folks know what you are up to, they will cooperate and not feel they are being tortured.

The next step: Once you learn the basics and the ropes, the next level is emotional content. Most of the wedding foram I see is a kinda OK- expression wise but few show emotion and relationships. If the emotional family dynamics are not there, you ain't gonna simulate them- you can't just tell people to "look romantic or look like a proud dad or a doting mom or a best-friend maid of honor. If, however, you are now doing the technical stuff as second nature and don't need to fuss with your gear you can concentrate on emotion content in your portraits. Putting people together in an elegant pose and having them relate to each other is a skill set and an art form in itself.

Now- so far discussed the formal portraits and we haven't even gotten into the photojournalism yet. Next time! Tune in!
Whether you are a full-time professional photograp... (show quote)


Great stuff!!

Reply
Aug 12, 2019 09:39:37   #
Pistnbroke Loc: UK
 
I am sure all will be happy but in every photo you put the groom on the wrong side …..Traditionally the bride should never hold the grooms right hand so he can defend her but in modern terms putting him on the right as you look at it means the brides left hand with the rings can be seen and is not at the back.
Never shoot the cake cutting over the cake always stand b +g to the right hand side and put the bride in front of the groom so you can see the dress …
Try to avoid putting people in groups with one head above the other. or dips in the group ..looks best like a pyramid. I don't like people touching children if they are old enough to stand ....otherwise I like it a lot.
my website is still up (I retired) at www.1and1photography.co.uk use Obama@hotmail.com to enter the client area.

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Aug 23, 2019 13:23:27   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
Wayne,
If you are serious about shooting with another photographer, you should post your location here, and make the offer. I know that Tim Stapp and I have become close friends as a result of him "UHH Stalking me" and making the same offer. He now shoots with me regularly, as well as shoots some on his own as well.

It is a lot of work, but I'm sure you probably noticed, there is nothing more exciting than capturing the best day in someone's lives, and thinking it through in how to "tell a story" in photos.

Reply
Aug 23, 2019 13:28:45   #
wayne-03 Loc: Minnesota
 
bkyser wrote:
Wayne,
If you are serious about shooting with another photographer, you should post your location here, and make the offer. I know that Tim Stapp and I have become close friends as a result of him "UHH Stalking me" and making the same offer. He now shoots with me regularly, as well as shoots some on his own as well.

It is a lot of work, but I'm sure you probably noticed, there is nothing more exciting than capturing the best day in someone's lives, and thinking it through in how to "tell a story" in photos.
Wayne, br If you are serious about shooting with a... (show quote)


I'm in St Cloud, MN if anyone is interested in shooting together. https://donhyattsr.myportfolio.com/

Reply
Aug 27, 2019 14:54:38   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
wayne-03 wrote:
I'm in St Cloud, MN if anyone is interested in shooting together. https://donhyattsr.myportfolio.com/


That honestly may help. Like I said, even though Tim lives about 2-1/2 hours from me, he and his lovely bride, she who must be obeyed, and I have gotten to be great friends, and enjoy shooting together.

MN is too far for me, but UHH has members, and lurkers who don't post from all over.

Reply
Aug 28, 2019 09:52:06   #
wishaw
 
Pistnbroke mentioned groom on wrong side. He is from U.K. And I agree with him. Is this an American wedding and it is done differently here.
Also someone mentioned feet. The bride has her feet together. Turn the foot nearest the camera towards the camera to get a better pose. Even with a full length dress setting the feet properly positioned make the dress look better.
Flowers some photographers tell the bride to straighten the arm for a more natural look.
I am not criticizing you effort. Just a few pointers to help. Look for weddings on the web and see what is being done. Look for monte zucker

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