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4th of July Trivia Quiz
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Jul 5, 2019 01:30:42   #
Chris T
 
Sunnely wrote:
My bad.

I was a "doubting Thomas" but now a converted Monroe Doctrine believer.

Monroe got Florida from Spain for $5M. Not bad deal.

But IMHO, the best deal was the one known then as, "Seward Folly," when US got AK from Russia for $7M in 1867 or 2 cents per acre or $4.74 per sq km. The dumb comrade who made the deal then was lucky it didn't happen today.


An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - achieved at the end of the Mexican War (under President James Polk, fought primarily by soon-to-be President Zachary Taylor) in which California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico (and parts of some other western states) were ceded to the US for an indemnity of $15M. But, by far - the best land deal the US made - was Thomas Jefferson's agreement to provide $15M to Napoleon's France - in return for the Louisiana Purchase !!!! … Work THAT one out - per acre!!!!

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Jul 5, 2019 03:52:02   #
robertjerl (a regular here)
 
Chris T wrote:
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - achieved at the end of the Mexican War (under President James Polk, fought primarily by soon-to-be President Zachary Taylor) in which California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico (and parts of some other western states) were ceded to the US for an indemnity of $15M. But, by far - the best land deal the US made - was Thomas Jefferson's agreement to provide $15M to Napoleon's France - in return for the Louisiana Purchase !!!! … Work THAT one out - per acre!!!!
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hi... (show quote)


Under three cents per acre.

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Jul 5, 2019 05:30:10   #
Chris T
 
robertjerl wrote:
Under three cents per acre.


Really, Robert? … How on earth did you figure THAT out?

The Louisiana Purchase represented about a third of the land that's now considered to be the USA. It encompassed MOST of the western Midwest - including parts of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Louisiana - that was some BIG HAUL - that one!!!! … Napoleon must have been truly crazy - to give THAT LOT up - huh? No wonder they banished him out to St. Helena - in the MIDDLE of the Atlantic Ocean - for the rest of his life!

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Jul 5, 2019 06:22:50   #
Sendai5355
 
Who the heck was Thomas Monroe?

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Jul 5, 2019 07:38:59   #
edwdickinson
 
One correction. James Monroe not Thomas

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Jul 5, 2019 08:06:50   #
jerryc41 (a regular here)
 
I knew 1, 5, and part of 8.

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Jul 5, 2019 13:20:15   #
robertjerl (a regular here)
 
Chris T wrote:
Really, Robert? … How on earth did you figure THAT out?

The Louisiana Purchase represented about a third of the land that's now considered to be the USA. It encompassed MOST of the western Midwest - including parts of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Louisiana - that was some BIG HAUL - that one!!!! … Napoleon must have been truly crazy - to give THAT LOT up - huh? No wonder they banished him out to St. Helena - in the MIDDLE of the Atlantic Ocean - for the rest of his life!
Really, Robert? … How on earth did you figure THAT... (show quote)


It used to be in all the history books.

Napoleon had just suffered a major loss in the Americas when Haiti revolted and won. His wars in Europe and the British Navy in the Atlantic meant he had few troops to guard Louisiana. Most of it was still garrisoned by Spanish troops who had taken over during the Revolution and France had not even gotten around to taking over every where yet after he defeated Spain. In St Louis a US officer with a letter from the French ambassador to the US formerly took over from Spain in the name of France and the next day took it over from France in the name of the US from his unit XO. Three flags over St Louis in three days.
Napoleon was in a bind. Couldn't guard it, or even take it all over from the Spanish troops. Had to worry about Spain just keeping it again, or the British taking the northern areas from Canada, or the US just marching in and taking over etc. It was take the $15 million from the US or lose it all anyway. The US diplomat who bought it from him in France was there just to buy New Orleans so the US could control the whole length of the Mississippi for, I think it was $5 million. Napoleon said all of it for $15 million, the diplomat accepted the deal on the theory that it was such a great bargain Congress and the President would approve it, they did.

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Jul 5, 2019 13:34:30   #
goofybruce
 
James Monroe was President of the United States; Thomas Monroe might have been president of a local PTA...

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Jul 5, 2019 13:52:54   #
Chris T
 
robertjerl wrote:
It used to be in all the history books.

Napoleon had just suffered a major loss in the Americas when Haiti revolted and won. His wars in Europe and the British Navy in the Atlantic meant he had few troops to guard Louisiana. Most of it was still garrisoned by Spanish troops who had taken over during the Revolution and France had not even gotten around to taking over every where yet after he defeated Spain. In St Louis a US officer with a letter from the French ambassador to the US formerly took over from Spain in the name of France and the next day took it over from France in the name of the US from his unit XO. Three flags over St Louis in three days.
Napoleon was in a bind. Couldn't guard it, or even take it all over from the Spanish troops. Had to worry about Spain just keeping it again, or the British taking the northern areas from Canada, or the US just marching in and taking over etc. It was take the $15 million from the US or lose it all anyway. The US diplomat who bought it from him in France was there just to buy New Orleans so the US could control the whole length of the Mississippi for, I think it was $5 million. Napoleon said all of it for $15 million, the diplomat accepted the deal on the theory that it was such a great bargain Congress and the President would approve it, they did.
It used to be in all the history books. br br Nap... (show quote)


Yes, I remember about them going to him to acquire just New Orleans (and Louisiana) but, didn't know the rest of it, you just swung my way, Robert … thanks for the history lesson ….

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Jul 5, 2019 14:16:10   #
robertjerl (a regular here)
 
Chris T wrote:
Yes, I remember about them going to him to acquire just New Orleans (and Louisiana) but, didn't know the rest of it, you just swung my way, Robert … thanks for the history lesson ….


Another bit, part of the deal is now in Canada. But since the border is often a river and those neat map lines are so much easier to keep track of the US and Britain/Canada made a deal in the mid 19th century to draw the present line of latitude border west of the Great Lakes in which the US got everything south of the line and Canada got everything north of the line. If you look closely you will see a few jogs from the line where there were towns or settlers from the US or Canada who didn't want to switch countries. They are at the far West and Great Lakes end of the border. The border deal in the lakes themselves and East of the lakes was a little more complicated due to the longer and heavier settlement. In New England you have a few towns/cities that are partly in Canada and partly in the US. In some areas you also have family farms that straddled the border. Farmers plowing their fields cross back and forth multiple times per day as they work.

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Jul 5, 2019 14:30:29   #
robertjerl (a regular here)
 
[quote=Chris T]An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - achieved at the end of the Mexican War (under President James Polk, fought primarily by soon-to-be President Zachary Taylor) in which California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico (and parts of some other western states) were ceded to the US for an indemnity of $15M.

The US had negotiated the purchase of the Southwest from Mexico but then Mexico had a "change" of government and canceled the deal. One of the reasons for the Mexican American War (Texas being the big cause). War was declared by the US by a hair thin vote in Congress. After the fighting ended the US had conquered the whole area and by the international rules of the day did not have to pay Mexico a cent. But those anti war Congressmen twisted arms and put the payment of the pre-war sale agreement into the treaty as well as full citizenship etc for all the residents and recognition of land ownership, grants etc - now some of those land grants are still not completely settled because between Spain, Mexico, Indian Reservations and homesteading under the US etc etc etc some chunks of land have multiple ownership claims. A friend's wife from New Mexico got a large gvt check back in the 90s because her couple of times Great Grandfather had a land grant he was given when he retired from the Spanish Army before Mexico got its independence and it is now part of a reservation. Oh, do not call the lady Mexican-American, she will go off like a sky rocket. She is Spanish or Spanish-American, just ask her.

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Jul 5, 2019 16:33:31   #
Chris T
 
robertjerl wrote:
Another bit, part of the deal is now in Canada. But since the border is often a river and those neat map lines are so much easier to keep track of the US and Britain/Canada made a deal in the mid 19th century to draw the present line of latitude border west of the Great Lakes in which the US got everything south of the line and Canada got everything north of the line. If you look closely you will see a few jogs from the line where there were towns or settlers from the US or Canada who didn't want to switch countries. They are at the far West and Great Lakes end of the border. The border deal in the lakes themselves and East of the lakes was a little more complicated due to the longer and heavier settlement. In New England you have a few towns/cities that are partly in Canada and partly in the US. In some areas you also have family farms that straddled the border. Farmers plowing their fields cross back and forth multiple times per day as they work.
Another bit, part of the deal is now in Canada. B... (show quote)


Yes, I know - essentially - the 48th Parallel … there's one town in Vermont like that, and then there may also be one in western New Hampshire, too. It's tricky, up there … also, on the western border of New Brunswick - where it connects with Maine … there are a number of areas, up there. Of course - where the Great Lakes are - it's somewhat easier to align borders. On THIS shore - is the USA, and on THAT shore - is Canada … as the line tends to go right through the lakes (the horizontal ones, anyway) Lake Michigan is a little different (and Lake Huron, too - to some extent) but the others - Superior, Erie, Ontario - are more or less - horizontally inclined …

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Jul 5, 2019 16:37:44   #
Chris T
 
[quote=robertjerl]
Chris T wrote:
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - achieved at the end of the Mexican War (under President James Polk, fought primarily by soon-to-be President Zachary Taylor) in which California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico (and parts of some other western states) were ceded to the US for an indemnity of $15M.

The US had negotiated the purchase of the Southwest from Mexico but then Mexico had a "change" of government and canceled the deal. One of the reasons for the Mexican American War (Texas being the big cause). War was declared by the US by a hair thin vote in Congress. After the fighting ended the US had conquered the whole area and by the international rules of the day did not have to pay Mexico a cent. But those anti war Congressmen twisted arms and put the payment of the pre-war sale agreement into the treaty as well as full citizenship etc for all the residents and recognition of land ownership, grants etc - now some of those land grants are still not completely settled because between Spain, Mexico, Indian Reservations and homesteading under the US etc etc etc some chunks of land have multiple ownership claims. A friend's wife from New Mexico got a large gvt check back in the 90s because her couple of times Great Grandfather had a land grant he was given when he retired from the Spanish Army before Mexico got its independence and it is now part of a reservation. Oh, do not call the lady Mexican-American, she will go off like a sky rocket. She is Spanish or Spanish-American, just ask her.
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hi... (show quote)


That's an interesting tidbit, Robert … didn't know THAT, either … see - history books don't have it all!!!!

BTW - think I left out the land which became Nevada - in that earlier condensation. Or, had that one already been decided before the fight at the Alamo? …

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Jul 5, 2019 16:55:57   #
Chris T
 
[quote=robertjerl]
Chris T wrote:
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - achieved at the end of the Mexican War (under President James Polk, fought primarily by soon-to-be President Zachary Taylor) in which California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico (and parts of some other western states) were ceded to the US for an indemnity of $15M.

The US had negotiated the purchase of the Southwest from Mexico but then Mexico had a "change" of government and canceled the deal. One of the reasons for the Mexican American War (Texas being the big cause). War was declared by the US by a hair thin vote in Congress. After the fighting ended the US had conquered the whole area and by the international rules of the day did not have to pay Mexico a cent. But those anti war Congressmen twisted arms and put the payment of the pre-war sale agreement into the treaty as well as full citizenship etc for all the residents and recognition of land ownership, grants etc - now some of those land grants are still not completely settled because between Spain, Mexico, Indian Reservations and homesteading under the US etc etc etc some chunks of land have multiple ownership claims. A friend's wife from New Mexico got a large gvt check back in the 90s because her couple of times Great Grandfather had a land grant he was given when he retired from the Spanish Army before Mexico got its independence and it is now part of a reservation. Oh, do not call the lady Mexican-American, she will go off like a sky rocket. She is Spanish or Spanish-American, just ask her.
An even better deal was the Treaty of Guadalupe Hi... (show quote)


Look - the way I see it - the Brits owned one third of America (the eastern seaboard colonies) whilst France owned a third - just about all of the Midwest, whilst Spain owned the other third - most of the west and southwest - extended up from Mexico - back in the 17th Century. That changed in the 18th Century - and even MORE - in the 19th Century - as the pioneers expanded westwards, fighting off Native Americans - in their ongoing conquest for new lands, and Spain and France - battled for the Midwest and South … and the Spaniards continued their northerly settlements as far as they could up the West Coast. Meanwhile, Jefferson did that deal with Napoleon - absorbing the Midwest and the Northern part of the country for all time - leaving Spain in charge of most of the Southwest. Mexico extended all the way up as far as Oregon, and all the way out as far as the Mississippi. Since most of that land - was settled either by Spanish soldiers, or by wayward Mexicans - it's ALL the same - isn't it? … Mexico was settled by Europeans from Spain - after they'd pushed the Aztec and Mayan civilizations out of the way - and thus, all Mexicans - were of Spanish descent. And, it continued like that, as they pushed northward - until it all came to a head in 1848 - over Texas - most of whose citizens - had sought Republic status - for some time. When that war was won, the tide changed, the Rio Grande was established as the de facto border, and all lands north of it were made part of America, and all lands south of it - were made part of Mexico - simple - wasn't it? …. No?

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Jul 5, 2019 18:13:16   #
Gilkar
 
Thanks for this I have a PhD in History and I only got 4½ right!

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