petego4it Loc: NY

Have to take a photo of 20 people in a line two deep. I know of course distortion depends on the lens but in general for a full frame camera, with a decent lens, how wide a focal range can one expect to work without notable distortion on the edges of the unfortunate persons placed there? Same Q 40 people also 2 deep?

twowindsbear

Why MUST you shoot them 2 deep???

Shoot 7 6 7 and 4 x 10 - won't be all so wide and their faces will be big enough to identify them.

To answer your ? I wouldn't use wider than 35mm or equivalent.

Good luck

repleo Loc: Boston

Not speaking from experience, but rather just trying to think it through, I would think that a long thin line of people placed along the center axis of the frame would show minimal distortion regardless of the lens. Nobody will be in the corners of the frame where distortion would be most noticable. Depth of field may be an issue to keep the folks at the end of the line in focus.
I'll follow the thread to see what I can learn from others experience and knowledge.

cyclespeed Loc: Calgary, Alberta Canada

It might help me and others too perhaps if you told us the lens and the orientation you are thinking about. The centre line would mean somehow stacking people to keep them on or close to the centre of the image.
The reason many don't do more than 2 deep set ups is to ensure tack sharpness from the closest nose to the furthest ear so to speak while still setting shutter speed and aperture for adequate light and no camera movement blur. This assumes you are not in a studio with artificial lighting of course

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I shoot large groups all the time.

You don't mention if you shot is formal or casual, sports, business, family, military, wahtever? No mention of location. Waht is the size of the final display- print, publication etc.?

Unless you are really cramped for backup space do not use a wide angle focal length.

Rather that 2 lines, go to 3- have some sitting, some standing behind and one group elevated behind the standing group. Use chairs, steps. bleachers, risers or inclined ground wahtever is at your disposal. Stagger the heights, have folks looking out between the shoulders of the group in front of them and try to form a pyramid or triangular group composition- just stringing out 2 rows of 10 is kinda boring. Keep the rows close together.

You may need a bit of elevation so that the camera is at about the chest level of the second row and parallel. Don't shoot from too high with the camera tilted downward or you will get foreshortening.

Compose to fill the aspect ratio. A 50mm focal length should get everyone in at no more than 15 feet.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Put the camera on burst to optimize finding a frame with the fewest closed eyes. Be ready to swap out some eyes in post processing if you want 100% with open eyes.

BebuLamar

If the lens angle of view is wider than your eye then it looks distorted.

Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.

Check the open-eyes problem before you leave the shoot. (Long before thoughts of PP). That is one of the bigger benefits of digital cameras. Make sure the folks (Towards the ends of the lines) turn their shoulders slightly inwards, towards the camera position. A gentle curve of the lines will achieve this naturally.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Eyes and expressions: If possible, mount the camera on a tripod- frame,compose and focus. THEN observe the group from as close to the camera as possible but do not keep you eye in the viewfinder. NOW is the time to give directions, get everyone's attentions and shoot every frame deliberately. Shoot lots of frames to ensure good expressions and open eyes but don't "machig gun" - you can shoot dozens of frames and get sill closed eyes or off expressions if you don't observe the group and shoot deliberately! Check the viewfinder intermittently to make sure nothing has shifted- focus etc. Chimp for exposure before shooting your main sequence. Lock everything! You want to avoid head-swapping!

Give direction loudly enough and so you youcan to secure good expressions. If you want smiles you have to cajole folks- use your sense of humor.

I am on the road away from my studio- all I have with me, as far as a group, me is this image on my phone- sorry for the quality but it gives you an idea of rows of people.

Good luck-- Happy holiday weekend!

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

E.L.'s image is a nice one. But I have also faced a situation calling for a wide shot of a fairly large group in only one or two rows. The one thing that costs nothing to do, but makes a big difference, is to curve the lines so that each person is approximately the same distance from the camera. This will avoid a result in which some of the people appear a lot larger than the others. Of course, the second problem to be solved in a situation like that is even lighting across the entire width of the scene.

AntonioReyna Loc: Los Angeles, California

depends all on how far away you are from the group. If two deep, get some elevation, like a ladder or chair. Most lens down to 24mm are not going to get noticeable distortion.

speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho

I've shot that many people in a row on several occasions and did not have any distortions! I used a 16-35 on the wide end!

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

That's true! If you want to maintain head size and help with depth of field, you need to keep the rows close together. If you look at the example I posted, you will notice aht the 3 rows are more like 1- 3/4 to 2 1/2, so to speak, because of the way the subjects are placed.

On a full frame body you may get away with a 35mm focal length- 24mm will definitely show a differential in head sizes if the rows are further apart. Too much elevation of camera position and shooting downward will cause for foreshortening. That's why it's important to stagger the heights and positions so everyone's face is visible.

Modern wide angle lenses should no suffer from too much barrel distortion and other such aberrations which could also elongate images at the edges. I remember older wide angle that had folks at the edges of the format looking like cucumbers. So...I am not worried about intrinsic optical distortion in the lenses but perspective issues caused by shooting wide angle at relatively close distances. Remember perspective is influenced by distance rather than focal length.

When I was shooting film my go-to lenses were 135mmm for 4x5, 60mm to 80mmm for 2 1/4/ square, 95mm for 6x7cm. and nowadays 45mm to 55mm for full frame digital. Never had a issue with distortion or bad head size differentials.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Unless you are lucky enough to use a 35mm Zeiss Biogon (on larger format), or a 25mm Zeiss Distagon (on 35mm or full frame digital) - you will most definitely get volume anamorphosis, which is quite difficult to correct for.

DXO Viewpoint is the only software solution that addresses this with halfway decent results, but even then it leaves something to be desired.

I would say that 35mm lenses or longer generally do not suffer from this sort of volume deformation, and nearly every 28 mm and short lens I've used - Nikon, Canon, Tamron, Sigma etc all have it - and the wider the lens the worse it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmI94uL4Kk

I've shot with much longer lenses for very large groups, and stitched a panorama.

One trick I have had great success with is to tell everyone in the shot to close their eyes, and open them when I count to three - the result is natural smiles and open eyes.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I do have some good wide angle glass but I still keep them away from portraiture and formal groups. What Gene said...dats why!