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were boeing crashes due to pilot incompetence?
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Mar 23, 2019 19:37:37   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily resolved by turning off the trim mechanism. This has been standard procedure for decades. Pilots in some countries are marginally competent, due to nepotism, lower training standards, and cultural factors. It appears the crashes occurred because the flight crews failed to deal properly with a problem that would have been a non-event for a typical American flight crew.

(I was once a passenger in a 4-seat plane flying from Fullerton to Sacramento. The plane's autopilot failed in a way analogous to the Boeing jetliner issue, and insisted on making left turns no matter what my plane's pilot did. Solution? Simple! Pilot turned off the autopilot, then for safety/redundancy, pulled the circuit breaker for the autopilot.)

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Mar 23, 2019 19:59:38   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily resolved by turning off the trim mechanism. This has been standard procedure for decades. Pilots in some countries are marginally competent, due to nepotism, lower training standards, and cultural factors. It appears the crashes occurred because the flight crews failed to deal properly with a problem that would have been a non-event for a typical American flight crew.

(I was once a passenger in a 4-seat plane flying from Fullerton to Sacramento. The plane's autopilot failed in a way analogous to the Boeing jetliner issue, and insisted on making left turns no matter what my plane's pilot did. Solution? Simple! Pilot turned off the autopilot, then for safety/redundancy, pulled the circuit breaker for the autopilot.)
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily res... (show quote)



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Mar 23, 2019 20:19:59   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
Recall the Oceana (Korean) crash at SFO under perfectly placid conditions. It highlighted issues like nepotism, shockingly inadequate experience and training, and finally the lethal cultural attitudes that kept the co-pilot from urgently warning the Captain, "We're dangerously low, slow, and our sink rate will have us swimming."

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Mar 23, 2019 20:39:44   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily resolved by turning off the trim mechanism. This has been standard procedure for decades. Pilots in some countries are marginally competent, due to nepotism, lower training standards, and cultural factors. It appears the crashes occurred because the flight crews failed to deal properly with a problem that would have been a non-event for a typical American flight crew.

(I was once a passenger in a 4-seat plane flying from Fullerton to Sacramento. The plane's autopilot failed in a way analogous to the Boeing jetliner issue, and insisted on making left turns no matter what my plane's pilot did. Solution? Simple! Pilot turned off the autopilot, then for safety/redundancy, pulled the circuit breaker for the autopilot.)
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily res... (show quote)


Only if you were the pilot.

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Mar 23, 2019 21:05:43   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
Kraken wrote:
Only if you were the pilot.


Stupidity, your usual comment. The autopilot 'k**l' switch is accessible to co-pilot as well as the PIC/pilot flying.

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Mar 24, 2019 10:44:38   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
Meanwhile, Boeing knew of the problem and decided to make the safety feature that would prevent it an "option". Sorry, but in the end, Boeing owns these deaths. They were murdered for corporate profits and the airlines owe too because they didn't train their pilots.
In the end, $$$$ outweighed lives.

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Mar 24, 2019 12:36:09   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Frank T wrote:
Meanwhile, Boeing knew of the problem and decided to make the safety feature that would prevent it an "option". Sorry, but in the end, Boeing owns these deaths. They were murdered for corporate profits and the airlines owe too because they didn't train their pilots.
In the end, $$$$ outweighed lives.


No they were not.

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Mar 24, 2019 13:16:50   #
trainspotter Loc: Oregon
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily resolved by turning off the trim mechanism. This has been standard procedure for decades. Pilots in some countries are marginally competent, due to nepotism, lower training standards, and cultural factors. It appears the crashes occurred because the flight crews failed to deal properly with a problem that would have been a non-event for a typical American flight crew.

(I was once a passenger in a 4-seat plane flying from Fullerton to Sacramento. The plane's autopilot failed in a way analogous to the Boeing jetliner issue, and insisted on making left turns no matter what my plane's pilot did. Solution? Simple! Pilot turned off the autopilot, then for safety/redundancy, pulled the circuit breaker for the autopilot.)
The initial problem, 'runaway trim', is easily res... (show quote)


100% correct...my childhood friend is a flight SIM instructor...he told me the same answer.. turn it off..(autopilot).

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Mar 24, 2019 13:23:26   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
trainspotter wrote:
100% correct...my childhood friend is a flight SIM instructor...he told me the same answer.. turn it off..(autopilot).


And these experienced pilots never thought of that eh?

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Mar 24, 2019 13:54:41   #
trainspotter Loc: Oregon
 
Kraken wrote:
And these experienced pilots never thought of that eh?


I don't know....those "experienced pilots" were NOT trained in the U.S. I do KNOW the American Airlines pilots ARE trained to "turn off" the autopilots. Since I don't travel outside the U.S....I can ONLY feel sad for the passenger's families. Boing WILL be held accountable for not instructing international pilots about the new systems on the X8's eh?

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Mar 24, 2019 14:11:29   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
Frank T wrote:
Meanwhile, Boeing knew of the problem and decided to make the safety feature that would prevent it an "option". Sorry, but in the end, Boeing owns these deaths. They were murdered for corporate profits and the airlines owe too because they didn't train their pilots.
In the end, $$$$ outweighed lives.


More foul-mouthed ignorance spewing from a non-pilot who couldn't tell a k**l switch from a winglet.

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Mar 24, 2019 14:14:18   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
Kraken wrote:
And these experienced pilots never thought of that eh?


The pilots of some foreign carriers are shockingly inexperienced ... as little as a few hundred hours and most of that in simulators ... and often marginally competent. There are often also cultural factors that prevent proper CRM on the flight deck.

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Mar 24, 2019 19:36:19   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
The pilots of some foreign carriers are shockingly inexperienced ... as little as a few hundred hours and most of that in simulators ... and often marginally competent. There are often also cultural factors that prevent proper CRM on the flight deck.


And this is done to save money.
Thank you for bolstering my point.

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Mar 24, 2019 20:52:52   #
skylane5sp Loc: Puyallup, WA
 
Kraken wrote:
And these experienced pilots never thought of that eh?


Don't you ever tire of daily proving that old adage "Tis better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

You obviously know bupkis about commercial aviation.

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Mar 24, 2019 20:57:21   #
skylane5sp Loc: Puyallup, WA
 
Frank T wrote:
Meanwhile, Boeing knew of the problem and decided to make the safety feature that would prevent it an "option". Sorry, but in the end, Boeing owns these deaths. They were murdered for corporate profits and the airlines owe too because they didn't train their pilots.
In the end, $$$$ outweighed lives.


And you obviously know nothing about commercial aviation either.

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