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Who owns your client’s photos?
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Mar 21, 2019 18:10:58   #
Pat F 4119 Loc: Branford, CT
 
Hi All, I have a question for all of you professional photographers, which I thought would be fairly straightforward, but now I’m not so sure. I’m in the process of putting together a new contract for my I portrait business, and there is a clause in the template contract I purchased which states the photos belong to the photographer who merely grants the client the right to use them. Further, it states that the photographer reserves the right to use the images in any way he or she sees fit. I don’t know if this is standard operating procedure, but if I am a portrait client, and I am paying for the session, I’m not so sure I would be happy about the photographer being free to use my images in any way he or she pleases. So, once again I seek out my fellow hogs for words of wisdom. Am I missing something, or have I simply purchased an overly aggressive template? Thanks in advance for your help!

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Mar 21, 2019 18:17:42   #
williejoha
 
If you take pictures of me and I paid for your services, the pictures are mine but I may grand you permission to use them for advertising only. My two thoughts.
WJH

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Mar 21, 2019 18:18:17   #
PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago
 
Pat F 4119 wrote:
Hi All, I have a question for all of you professional photographers, which I thought would be fairly straightforward, but now I’m not so sure. I’m in the process of putting together a new contract for my I portrait business, and there is a clause in the template contract I purchased which states the photos belong to the photographer who merely grants the client the right to use them. Further, it states that the photographer reserves the right to use the images in any way he or she sees fit. I don’t know if this is standard operating procedure, but if I am a portrait client, and I am paying for the session, I’m not so sure I would be happy about the photographer being free to use my images in any way he or she pleases. So, once again I seek out my fellow hogs for words of wisdom. Am I missing something, or have I simply purchased an overly aggressive template? Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi All, I have a question for all of you professi... (show quote)


Pat, that statement has to do with you using the images for marketing purposes. Your client gets all the images/files. The main purpose of a contract is to protect you for non compliance. Like you can't deliver the images because your card got corrupted.

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Mar 21, 2019 18:39:01   #
Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV
 
I'm not a professional but it is my belief that the photographer does own the photos as you stated however, I would think having unlimited use of the images for their use is questionable. I would rather have a separate claws that states that the photographer has the right to display such photos to potential clients for marketing purposes. If I were the potential client it would make me more acceptable to your terms.

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Mar 21, 2019 18:47:12   #
User ID
 
`

The thread title plainly states that they
are your client's photos. Therefor they
belong to the client. Simple !

.

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Mar 21, 2019 19:03:40   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
User ID wrote:
`

The thread title plainly states that they
are your client's photos. Therefor they
belong to the client. Simple !

.


The thread title has no bearing on the subject. It is the signed contract that counts.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:00:59   #
cpedmunds
 
This language is typical of what you find in a legal (template) since there is no way of determining what the relationship between the photographer and client really is - could be commercial, marketing, modeling, portrait, etc. As written, it vests the right of ownership in the photographer. As stated by another, if you are a client getting a portrait made you (client) expect to own what you paid for. If I was getting a portrait of my kids, I would not expect to see them show up on-line or in someone's advertising without my permission. If that was the case, I would either want a reduced fee or some kind of re-numeration if the photos I paid for gained unexpected notoriety. On the other hand, if you are a fashion photographer and are paying for the model's time, then the model may have limited, or no rights to ownership. The legal climate has also become twisted in recent years, that an artisan's ability to work creatively may be limited by the current trends of our social environment. That said, it may be worthwhile to visit an attorney who can take a look at your business plan and re-state your terms in a way that will protect your interests without running off potential clients. Just my thoughts.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:06:59   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
williejoha wrote:
If you take pictures of me and I paid for your services, the pictures are mine but I may grand you permission to use them for advertising only. My two thoughts.
WJH


That is absolutely not the case. Unless you are in the European Union, as a Photographer, your images are your intellectual property. You provide images to a client with usage restrictions against reediting, adding stupid Instagram filters, etc, etc and using the images for commercial purposes above and beyond the terms of your contract.

To the OP: Did you get your contract template from www.thelawtog.com by any chance?

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Mar 21, 2019 21:20:37   #
leicaroll
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
That is absolutely not the case. Unless you are in the European Union, as a Photographer, your images are your intellectual property. You provide images to a client with usage restrictions against reediting, adding stupid Instagram filters, etc, etc and using the images for commercial purposes above and beyond the terms of your contract.

To the OP: Did you get your contract template from www.thelawtog.com by any chance?


The law as I have understood it, for years: the image belongs to you if you maintain the copyright and ownership and control; it belongs to the client if you sell and forfeit all rights to the reproduction of the image to a client.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:26:10   #
jim quist Loc: Missouri
 
The person who snaps the shutter owns the copyright. However with recent changes unless you file the copyright you aren't protected any longer. Sorry I don't remember the source so I can't share the link. You can offer a limited use print release which allows the client to print pictures.
If you sell the images and give a copyright they now belong to your client, and you will need to get permission to use them.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:29:23   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Pat F 4119 wrote:
Hi All, I have a question for all of you professional photographers, which I thought would be fairly straightforward, but now I’m not so sure. I’m in the process of putting together a new contract for my I portrait business, and there is a clause in the template contract I purchased which states the photos belong to the photographer who merely grants the client the right to use them. Further, it states that the photographer reserves the right to use the images in any way he or she sees fit. I don’t know if this is standard operating procedure, but if I am a portrait client, and I am paying for the session, I’m not so sure I would be happy about the photographer being free to use my images in any way he or she pleases. So, once again I seek out my fellow hogs for words of wisdom. Am I missing something, or have I simply purchased an overly aggressive template? Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi All, I have a question for all of you professi... (show quote)


Actually, copyright always remains with the artist/photographer - except when the contract between the photographer and client specifically stipulates that for the agreed upon amount of compensation the photographer surrenders his/her claim to copyright. The cost of images where copyright is surrendered is customarily much higher than the usual right to use images that were paid for where there is a limitation as to how the images are to be used.

A simple example. You do a photo shoot for a restaurant where you grant them the license to use your images on their website and on their menu and their blog. The restaurant becomes extremely successful after being visited by Guy Fieri and goes from $700,000 in annual gross sales to $3M, and all of a sudden Food and Wine, Fine Cooking, Saveur, Bloomberg, the local newspaper and TV station all want to use your images without your permission or credit. How do you think you'd feel about that?

My advice is for you to seek the guidance of an attorney who specializes in copyright and use licenses to help you draw up a proper contract. Choosing to not do so may be very costly for you down the road. For pete's sake don't take anyone's free, well-intentioned but misguided advice on this or any other forum. Even my advice - other than to seek the guidance of a pro. Talk is cheap, and it is not a good defense/offense in a court.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:47:28   #
Pat F 4119 Loc: Branford, CT
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
That is absolutely not the case. Unless you are in the European Union, as a Photographer, your images are your intellectual property. You provide images to a client with usage restrictions against reediting, adding stupid Instagram filters, etc, etc and using the images for commercial purposes above and beyond the terms of your contract.

To the OP: Did you get your contract template from www.thelawtog.com by any chance?


No, it was actually included in a Tony Northrop portrait photography course. Since he’s also in the US, and even in my state, I had expected the contacts to be applicable as is for portrait photography.

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Mar 21, 2019 21:50:53   #
Pat F 4119 Loc: Branford, CT
 
Gene51 wrote:
Actually, copyright always remains with the artist/photographer - except when the contract between the photographer and client specifically stipulates that for the agreed upon amount of compensation the photographer surrenders his/her claim to copyright. The cost of images where copyright is surrendered is customarily much higher than the usual right to use images that were paid for where there is a limitation as to how the images are to be used.

A simple example. You do a photo shoot for a restaurant where you grant them the license to use your images on their website and on their menu and their blog. The restaurant becomes extremely successful after being visited by Guy Fieri and goes from $700,000 in annual gross sales to $3M, and all of a sudden Food and Wine, Fine Cooking, Saveur, Bloomberg, the local newspaper and TV station all want to use your images without your permission or credit. How do you think you'd feel about that?

My advice is for you to seek the guidance of an attorney who specializes in copyright and use licenses to help you draw up a proper contract. Choosing to not do so may be very costly for you down the road. For pete's sake don't take anyone's free, well-intentioned but misguided advice on this or any other forum. Even my advice - other than to seek the guidance of a pro. Talk is cheap, and it is not a good defense/offense in a court.
Actually, copyright always remains with the artist... (show quote)


Great advice, thanks Gene. I’ll find an attorney.

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Mar 21, 2019 22:21:31   #
pmorin Loc: Huntington Beach, Palm Springs
 
Just was reading this article tonite and saw this post. It would seem there are some limits to a photographers copyright.

https://pdnpulse.pdnonline.com/2019/03/rnc-copyright-erika-peterman.html

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Mar 22, 2019 00:33:34   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Pat F 4119 you would be far better served to obtain advice from a professional organization that represents actual working photographers...

https://www.asmp.org/professional-development/licensing-guide/

btw, the UHH is likely not an appropriate source of legal guidance... word
All the best on your career journey Pat

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