bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

There hasn't been a lot of activity here lately, so I want to get a discussion going.

Remember, there are no right answers here, you can explain yourself, but please don't criticize others for their business plan. This is just to share what works for us, and maybe give some ideas.

The question is: (no price, different areas of the country are vastly different, so let's just attack this from a different angle)

How many different packages do you offer?

What is included with your top, and bottom priced package? (aka, to see the difference)

I will be back soon, one of my drives is down, and it's the one with my price sheets. Working on getting it back from the cloud.

Aaaand GO!

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

When I actually did this my prices/packages started with coverage and proofs only (printed and/or digital) and went up by what was desired. Number of total hours, print packages, album products, etc. Overall coverage was based on what the couple desired. Print packages/album packages sold at booking were offered with a discount. Best of luck.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Surprisingly enough, at least to me, there is virtually no interest in wedding photography, on a professional level, on this entire forum. There are occasional posts on the main section, however, they are usually what I usually call "wedding horror stories" that consist of bad experiences that folks had while photographing weddings- or trying to photograph weddings. There are posts about watching other photographers, at weddings, experiencing problems, disturbing the event, being disruptive or bossy and/or doing a bad job. There are disgruntled ex-wedding shooters and the classic "I won't touch a wedding with a bargepole because there are bridezillas" and I can make more money shooting...whatever"- stories.

Even if serious photographers are not aspiring to a career or a part-time gig as a wedding shooter, there is so much that can be learned from experienced wedding photographers; portraiture, photojournalism, fast shooting techniques, advanced flash methods, working under pressure or time limitations, directing people and garnering cooperation, available light techniques and a whole lot of on the spot photographic problem solving. When you have to render detail in white wedding dresses, black tuxedos and capture perfect skin tones all the time, believe me, you will become the all-time guru of dynamic range.

There are 3 of us that hang in here and the odd visitor. I should promote this more. Perhaps folks don't know we are here.

Nonetheless- here's my PRICES:

Marketing-wise, I am very old school. I sell ALBUMS. This is my basic deal:

1- Leatherbound our album with 50 sides (minim). It is usually a multi-format album based on a 10-inch format. Some of the images are 8x10, others are 10x10, there are panoramic in a centerfold format (across 2 pages) some pages have multiple smaller prints, the might be the odd circular or oval compositions. Some of the albums have mats or borders to accommodate the various compositions. The flush books are 10X10 with masked off areas.

The covers are usually top-grain cowhide and there are a few other leather choices and a variety of colors. Gold, silver or gray engraving is included.

All images are edited in post-processing and portraits are retouched.

Included also is a studio or location casual or formal engagement shoot. I want the top get used to being photographed by me and I want to analyze their facial structures etc. More importantly, I want to get ther reaction to the images I show them and make certain that they are satisfied with the aesthetics. If there are any issues, I want to nip them in the bud!

Wedding day- This is a full day coverage at any number of locations. Folks getting ready, formal and casual portraits, complete journalistic coverage, homes, ceremony venue, outdoor garden, park- wherever, full reception coverage.

1-16x20 Portrait or 3 11x14 Portraits are included

I work with at least two assistants and multiple lightg.

This basic "package" $6,250.

Additional prints for album are $55.00 each

Parents of gift albums with 50 prints 10"- 2,500.
8" 1,800.

Slide shows on DVD are only available with album orders.

Videography: My videographer is an experienced E.N.G. broadcast guy. He works in a 2 camera crew and an assistant for certain lighting requirements. It is a CINEMA VERITE production- completely journalistic and documentary in style It is fully edited- beautiful A & B camera effects and dissolves. Runs about 30 minutes on the screen- full coverage as well.

$2,700.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Very interesting and thought provoking. I must admit, as a former (long, long ago) Wedding guy, I still plan to let the Bridezillas, the wannabes and the cell phones have at it. But I do have respect for the work of exceptional wedding guys/gals, such as yourself and a few of my wedding pro friends closer to me. I will still assist, upon occasion, but I'm just a sports junkie at heart. Thanks for the story. Best of luck.

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

Part time photographer (full time Engn Dir) and gear junkie. Started in photography about 7yrs ago and have been an addict since. Absolutely consumed everything on the web related to wedding/portraiture (artistic/street/photojournalism style) - with a little home-studio work.

Engn and mgmt experience combined critical capabilities for creating a good wedding photgraphy "experience" for the client - meticulous planning, customer service mentality, redundancy/backup plans for everything. Under promise and over deliver.

I started off free and increased my pricing from there ;-)

I now offer all-in for $1,895 including engagement,
- wedding (all day 7am until the B&G release me),
- minimum 300 digital photos (avg around 500-800).
- 2 -> 40pg photobooks - I design the photobooks myself and the B&G can make changes. I have found if I start with a blank sheet and collaborate, the B&G get overwhelmed and can't make decisions so I give them a digital proof-book and they can make changes. These are very inexpensive and the quality shows it but the clients are shown examples before they even book me and all have been quite happy with them. I would love to do $1000 wedding albums but need to do more research and maybe get a mentor, mistakes make for an an expensive screw up :-)
- 2nd shooter is extra (Client almost always pays it, usually only $300 and not all day)

I am only now starting to do prints. I have an "enthusiast" printer with 6 color cartridge bay and started doing some prints as part of the family package. Sitting is $175 and the prints are "my cost" (ink and paper only) until I know I can deliver professional quality pics either with a Pro-10 printer or using a lab. For now, I dont even advertise printing but am starting to offer "at cost".

- have done 2 destination weddings - I will do 1 per year and make it a vacation. Offer full week journalistic coverage if they want including on-call for family dinner and late night walks on the beach. They LOVED it. Their favorite photos of the week were not even shot at the wedding !

I do about 5-7 weddings per year and ~15-20 other paid shoots. I have a website but dont advertise. Word of mouth only. All my weddings have been referrals ("I know a guy who is excellent") or they attended a wedding where I was the shooter. Basically, they watched me work and I assume they liked what they saw.

I have had ideas for a Concierge Photography Company servicing exclusively C-level clientele and their families for several years now. This is the type-A exec with money to burn and no time. Basically, Mom gets the nanny for the trip and Dad's gets a biographer (Photo/Video). Most execs I know are also hard driving adrenaline junkies and would love to have a 4K movie and some 20x30's of him hucking cliff's at Whistler or jet skiing in the Caribbean. Anyway, too much work with the insurance, hiring combo skier/photographer/videographer/scuba-diver/mountain climbers would be a pain. Also, the marketing work , dealing with disgruntled A-types who thought the ripped young photog made a pass at his wife etc etc would quickly turn this into a job versus a passion.
...For now, I will stick to continuing to learn the wedding biz. That's plenty of adrenaline and stress.

....and no bridezillas to date. I basically set expectations and then say "yes" within that for the entire day. So far so good. Last wedding a shot the bride LOVED me and hated all the other vendors and yelled at them (they deserved it btw). I truly believe a bridezilla is "mostly" a result of poor expectation setting or bad service. There are exceptions and I do not want to find out who they are. Usually will know during the first meet and greet and will decline the business if I can't meet expectations.

Net: my pricing is about 25-35% less than the full-time pro's charge in my area and what the client gets in return is more than what they expected in return for taking a risk on a "non-professional".

Love this thread, anemic as it is, would like to hear more real-world tips and experiences too.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I have only had one bad experience with a bride, and it wasn't a wedding I booked personally. It was something my daughter booked, and she didn't yet understand my philosophy of meeting with the couple and making sure that not only do they feel comfortable with you, but you must also feel comfortable with the couple. It shows in the photos.

OK, Here's my rundown for what it's worth.

All packages are based on the day, not on the hour. Early on, I tried by the hour, but it caused too much stress trying to hurry things along so I could get all important shots within the time, and hard feelings if I would say that I need to leave, or be paid for. So, no packages that say "4 hours of shooting" etc.

Bottom package, 1 photographer, everything else, albums, photos, slideshow, is ala' carte

That is the only package that doesn't include engagement photos, with 1 digital download to use for invitations or save the dates, and they can purchase more digital downloads, or prints if needed, but just the one download is included for that purpose. I tried to get into doing custom invitations, and it was a lot of extra work for a very little payoff.

Only $200 more, 2 photographers, "portrait booth" 10x10 album, and a few 5x7 prints for parents, grandparents etc. Add'l albums or prints are extra.

I have another level that just adds more prints, a canvas, and still includes the "portrait booth" and the second shooter that is another $300 above (basically adds only $150 profit to the next level down, but it's a popular option, and not really any extra work)

My top package, nobody has booked, or even considered.

Includes, Edited video, 10x10 album and 2 parent's albums (so 3 total) Drone coverage (legal) where allowed and weather permitting, 20x30 canvas, this is the only one that includes a digital images. At least 3 photographers, a visit to the bridal shop to get photos of the bride at the shop getting the dress fitted (nice addition to the album) , and even a viewing party for the couple to invite friends and family for the reveal of their wedding photos.

That package is really expensive because it includes renting a space, a DJ, providing hors devours and taking a lot of extra time. It's also really expensive because it sets the tone for the rest of the price list. When people call and ask for pricing, I tell them that prices start at the lowest package price, but "depending on what they want" When we meet face to face (to get a feel for how we "click" with each other) I offer up the price list almost immediately. I give them the top price, see their hearts sink, and then go down to the next level from there, which at less than 1/2 the price of the "Jumbo" package, it looks like a deal. If they ask about the price on the phone, I show them what is (or isn't) included with that, and they generally go for one of the 2 middle packages. I do offer modifications, so if they want a certain package, but aren't interested in something, like the canvas print, I deduct for that. Lately, I've had a few people not talk to me until after they have already gotten engagement photos, so I subtract $75 if they don't need that.

Now, you may ask, what is the "portrait booth" We offer a portrait booth, where people who are maybe seeing family for the first time a while, or old friends, a mini session right at the reception. We give them a really nice dye sub print from our DS80 printer for $10 (my cost is $.70 per print) My wife/ aka. unpaid intern/ aka, the daughter of my photographic mentor, aka "she who must be obeyed" mans the portrait booth. Once in a while the couple says they don't want the portrait booth. That is OK with me, because in my price list, if they remove the portrait booth, it actually costs them MORE, we add $300 to the cost of the wedding package, because that's about what we average per wedding with the booth. (and it's actually less work to not have it, so I don't mind if they don't want it)

In lieu of a Portrait booth, we do offer a photo booth as well. That costs them the extra $300 for not using the portrait booth, plus the photo booth fee of $200, plus $2 per strip for the first 100 strips, then it goes down to $1 per strip for add'l, but they must purchase bundles of 25 strips at a time. I give them tickets to give out so the same 5 kids don't keep coming through the photo booth.

The extra costs for the photo booth help me cover the cost of purchasing of props which often get "borrowed" by people at the event. Other than the fact that they don't get the $300 discount, my photo booth is still about $200 less than the typical photo booth rental here in my area if you just get the first 100 strips. Many couples opt for just buying the first 100, then say if people want more, they can buy them themselves.

It's a lot to juggle, but often times, the things that tip the scales in my favor for people booking me are these.

1. I let them know up front that I won't book any couple that I can't meet face to face with to make sure that they are comfortable with me, and I'm comfortable with them. I buy them coffee or donuts, or wherever we meet. I let them know that if I think maybe I'm not a good fit, that I'm happy to help them find another photographer, I do know several in my area, and not to take offence. And on the other hand, I won't take offence if they choose to go with someone else. My goal is for them to have the perfect day, and working with someone they aren't comfortable with, isn't going to help them achieve that.

2. I also let them know that I won't be bringing a contract, and won't accept a deposit at that first meeting. I want them to go home and discuss it, talk to other photographers if they want to, and let me know, but the date will be only held for 4 days, then if someone else wants it, and they've met with me, then the deposit holds the date, but I give them my word, and mean it, that I don't "play games" and say that someone is sniffing around their date if they aren't.

3. Just last week, I showed someone that the package they were wanting, minus a few things, would still cost more than if they went with one package down, and added one parent album. So, I'm up front, and will give them the best deal I can, and still turn a profit.

4. Not sure if it works other places, but I'm telling you, people LOVE the portrait booth idea around here. They are kind of over the "silly photobooth stuff" but love the idea of their guests getting really nice photos, they also want family photos at the event, and it's a cheap way for grandma to get her photo right away with the couple, and they also save $300. I offer them 10% of the profit, to go towards extra pages in their albums.

Lastly, I think my turn around time is important. I keep hearing horror stories about a "friend" who either never got her photos, or it took 4 months to see it. (a bank teller asked for my card on Monday, and told me that exact story, and said that her friend couldn't stop crying, because after all that, she never got a photo of the flower girl, and some other photos that she had specifically asked for) I turn around the proofs in no later than 3 weeks. I will take vacation time from my day job if needed to hit that goal. (luckily, I get 6 weeks vacation, so I'm spoiled) I'm so sure that I will hit that date, that I offer a refund if I don't meet the deadline. Even if I'm sick, or something is going on, if I can't do it, I will pay to get them edited, but I won't make them wait... and I stand behind my guarantee. So far, I haven't missed it, but I've come close once. Normally I turn them around in closer to 2 weeks, just to be safe, and that's nice, because they are done about the time the couple is back from their honeymoon.

I hope to see some more replies soon. I'm hoping my computer issues are behind me.

A10 Loc: Southern Indiana

I am glad to see some discussion in this forum. I retired from shooting weddings a few years ago. I always enjoyed the stress and working in ever changing conditions, adrenaline rush. I enjoy seeing what other wedding photogs are doing.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I'm expecting a little more "action" soon. The issue around here in my neck of the woods is that the winter months are pretty slow, at least for me. I took last year off because of building a house 60 miles away, so I knew my weekends would be super busy running back and forth.

Not sure about anyone else, but this year is already shaping up to be a good one wedding wise, and I'm still getting booked for my commercial work (just booked another one yesterday) and Senior, and family photos. Sometimes it gets tough juggling a day job and the photography, but I HAVE to have insurance after having cancer. Not sure I could afford buying it on my own.

out4life2016 Loc: Bellingham, Washington

Unfortantly I am in no way a professional photographer and try to stay away from weddings. I have however shot at three different weddings with good results and the couples and family were happy to get the photos. Because I am not a wedding photographer the first thing I do is I get all in the wedding party to sign a release stating that I am in no way responsible for the quality or the outcome of the photos. I am working on a donation for payment and therefore party is freely willing to give as they please without any promise from me.
First wedding was only couple hundred dollars, hotel, and meals provided. That couple couldn't afford a photographer and I happen to meet her and the Bridesmaids in a club one evening about a month before the wedding. She explained her situation and I decided to give it a go. I brought a female friend in with me that is just starting out with a Canon T6i and basic kit lenses. I had her take the dressing room shots which the ladies appreciated it being another woman and she shot everything in auto settings. I used a Canon 6D Mark II and shot everything in Aperture priority and using a Godox speedlight and trigger so I could adjust the flash where I wanted it. Couple purchased their own SD cards. Photos were copied to my laptop and ones that I like were touched up using basic window 10 photo editing. They were then placed in a different file and put back on a Flash drive. SD card and Flash Drive were then given to the couple for them to do as they please. They were happy, the families were happy so I considered it a success.
Two other weddings were basically handled in the same manner other then the fact they were friends of the family. Not really personal to me however it was done as favors to my brothers. second one donated 800 dollars for my time and efforts and photos were handled in the same manner. Everyone was really happy and is how I was recommended for the third wedding.
Third wedding was more difficult as the bride had ideas for photos that she wanted and most were ideas she got from bridal magazines and seeing other professionals at work. We did the best we could with what we had to work with as far as equipment goes and even though I was not really super impressed with some of the photos she and the family liked them. Had issues with some shadowing that I didn't like however her not really being a photographer didn't seem to notice. Cards and photos were still handled the same way and they had photo albums and a beautiful metal portrait of them done at Cosco. The family was more then giving and donated 2000 dollars for my time and efforts.
Will I ever shoot another wedding, Most likely however I am in the process of building a home studio and practicing more and more so as I get better I hope to make more at it. Its a lot of work, time, and stress preparing for, shooting, and post processing the photos.
With all that being said, I believe the key to a good start for any business is honesty. If your not a professional photographer then don't try to sell yourself as one to try and get the job. Make sure you get releases signed by everyone in the wedding party. By allowing them to purchase their own SD cards and Flash Drive, they assume the responsibilities of it not being defective however one should always carry extras. If you sell yourself as a professional then they will be expecting professional results and if for any reason something goes wrong, you just destroyed the young ladies hopefully one and only special day and she will make you life a living hell for it if she can.
Photography for me is a hobby and a challenge. I want to be the best I can. Its not about how much money I can make at it but how many people I can make smile with my work. I don't have the best gear out or even the newest gear but I do what I can and I learn something new everyday.
My gear used for weddings and events is a Canon 6D Mark II with a Canon 50mm 1.8 USM lens, a Canon 24-105mm 3.5-6 USM lens, A canon 24mm 1.8 USM and a Canon 85mm 1.8 USM. I have two Godox TT685c speedlights with a Godox remote trigger that is placed on stands and moved around as needed. Nothing fancy however it works for me as im learning.
The female that I bring with me just shoots with a Canon T6I and mostly kit lenses. She has just recently purchased a Tamron 18-270 lens and a wide angle lens. Even though she is shooting in the Auto settings its a nice back up to have and as mentioned earlier its more comfortable for the Bride and Bridesmaid when they want photos of them getting dressed for the weddings.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Strange!

If you dislike photographing weddings, you should simply not do them or entertain the thought of doing this anymore. It's nice of you to have helped out some folks who coud not afford professional service. I am a full-time professional but I have done some, shall we say pro-bono jobs for deserving folks who were down on there financial luck.

Yes- for sure! Wedding photography is hard work- planning, shooting, processing and that all requires dedication, patience and most of all enjoying the work and relating kindly to people. If you consider it some kind of drudgery, it's best to avoid it because it is not fair to the brides and grooms to have someone on the job that would rather be elsewhere. If you want to do well at any kind of photographic work, in or out of a studio environment, it all requires hard work and dedication.

I have been in the wedding business for over 50 years and I have done countless coverages of the bride and her ladies preparing for the ceremony. I don't photograph them in the shower or in their undergarments! Theses pictures are gonna be in their wedding album, in their slideshows- they might even end up online for all their friends and families to see- everything is in good taste. When the couple gets older, I hope the will be able to show their wedding pictures to their children and grandchildren.

Of course, wedding photograhers need decent reliable equipment but it needn't be all that "fancy"! I have seen absolutely brilliant top-quality and emotionally charged wedding photography done with relatively simple gear. Actually too much gadgetry and too many bells and whistles can actually encumber the photograher, get in the way, become cumbersome and make for more breakdown potential. A couple of decent DSLRs or mirrorless cameras, a few basic lenses and a couple of lights, in the hands of a skilled shooter can work MAGIC!

So many folks have serious misconceptions about weddig photography. They becom preoccupied with equipment, and don't address the more important issues of technical and artistic savvy and planning, organizing and people skills. When I first started out in wedding work we used strictly manual large and medium format film cameras with fixed lenses. We had a couple of cameras and strobes and we DID THE WORK and always came back with a good comprehensive job.

We always come fully equipped with all the gear and supplies and hand over a finished product. Our clients do not supply anything other than payment or participat in production. We work on contract and guarantee satisfaction.

out4life2016 Loc: Bellingham, Washington

Like I said I am in no way a professional and didn't go looking for the jobs. I would have been happy to allow someone else to do it had the party had the money to pay someone. You as you stated have been doing weddings for over 50 years and work under a contract which tells me you are considered a professional. Please do not think I was wrong by helping the couples out that couldn't afford a photographer. Even though it wasn't my cup of tea I still gave it the best that I could and if we as humans only did things that we really wanted to do to help others out, the world would be a very sad place to live in. To me that's called greed and selfishness not wanting to help out another human being when you can just because you don't like something.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

You misinterpreted my response. I commended you for helping folks out by covering their weddings when they could not afford a paid service. Every couple deserves a remembrance of their wedding day in pictures! I do this for a living and I have given away my work, as well, in such circumstances. I am not greedy or selfish and suspending my fees when the need is there, will not hurt my business. I don't do pro bono work for publicity. The only local folks who know about this are the ones THAT I do it for.

My point is this: Folks come to this section and all over the main section and talk about how difficult and unpleasant WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY is. They tell "wedding horror stories" about things going South at weddings they have covered and swear never to take on another wedding. They typically complain about "the dreadful wedding shooter who disrupted their granddaughter's wedding and charged outrageous fees'". They use the term 'BRIDEZILLA" which I detest because it is insensitive and disrespectful. NEGATIVITY! It would be like me going to a landscape and nature section and complaining that last time I went out to shoot a sunset, it rained or my camera fell off a cliff and, therefore, nature photography is for the birds! I know that sounds silly but I think it is a good analogy.

Another point I make is that wedding photography requires patience, sensitivity and an emotional connection with the folks you are serving. If the photographer is stressed out, approaching the job as onerous or a form drudgery, this may encumber them, impair their performance or negatively reflect in their work. Believe me, I have done a lot of things in LIFE that I had to do but did not necessarily enjoy and somehow managed to do them to the best of my ability. Many times, however, I wished I could have done better if I was more adept at what I was called upon to do and probably could have done better if my heart was into it.

As co-moderator in this section, I don't discourage non-professionals to participate here, in fact, I invite them to join in. Even if they are not interested in a career in wedding photography there is a lot to learn from experienced wedding shooters in the areas of photojournalism, portraiture, formal and candid event photography and more. We are oftentimes expected to create ART on the fly or fine portraits in very small windows of opportunity- with nervous subjects. We wedding guys also have a lot to learn from other disciplines so sharing of techniques and concepts is also healthy.

As a full-time commercial/portrait/wedding photographer, I have never resented amateurs. I don't even resent my direct competitors. We, fortunately, live in a free-enterprise society and everyone is entitled to go out and seek out work. There are no licensing qualifications for wedding photography so we are all responsible for our own performance. I believe there is enough work out there for everyone- there is a client for every photographer and a photographer for every client. Resentment, vitriol and nasty competition are a waste of energy which should be better spent on constructive issues.

out4life2016 Loc: Bellingham, Washington

I do apologize if I took your response wrong. I like most people in the photography hobby enjoy learning and trying new ideas. Its what makes this hobby exciting to me.

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

You know, what's included is first a commitment to become part of a special event and actually enjoy being a part of capturing precious moments and creating images that make your clients proud. Also, being able to have the patience and problem solving ability to take whatever surprises come your way and exhibit a reassuring presence while doing it. I get a rush from it and keeps me energized.

What I offer is very similar to C Daddio's offering. All in and even cheaper. My last all in price was $1.499. Album is extra, This is a retirement gig for me and I apologize to those who need the income to pay the bills, however I am happy to use the money to buy more photography stuff.