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Feb 13, 2019 20:16:54   #
eugenehinds
 
I bought 4 new tires. Next morning one was flat. I tried to mount the spare. Taking an 18" handle and the correct size socket I stood my 216 # on the end of handle. Lug would not move. I bounced on end of handle and only succeeded in bursting the socket. This weight on 18" handle was well over 300 ft lb and same torque should be required to loosen as was used to tighten. The tire dealer found a leaking valve and used an impact wrench to remove wheel. Question: Required torque per Toyota is 80 ft lb. Will 350 ft lb of torque cause any damage to wheel, brakes, etc. Mechanic, preferably Toyota should answer this. Tire dealer says wrench set to correct torque. They obviously lied as they have no clue as to the real value.

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Feb 13, 2019 20:45:37   #
PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago
 
eugenehinds wrote:
I bought 4 new tires. Next morning one was flat. I tried to mount the spare. Taking an 18" handle and the correct size socket I stood my 216 # on the end of handle. Lug would not move. I bounced on end of handle and only succeeded in bursting the socket. This weight on 18" handle was well over 300 ft lb and same torque should be required to loosen as was used to tighten. The tire dealer found a leaking valve and used an impact wrench to remove wheel. Question: Required torque per Toyota is 80 ft lb. Will 350 ft lb of torque cause any damage to wheel, brakes, etc. Mechanic, preferably Toyota should answer this. Tire dealer says wrench set to correct torque. They obviously lied as they have no clue as to the real value.
I bought 4 new tires. Next morning one was flat. I... (show quote)
Excessive torque can warp your rotors and can affect braking.I would have the tire dealer pay for new rotors and would not trust them to put them on.

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Feb 13, 2019 21:08:54   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Unless the dealer is using some sort of torque limiting device such as a torque stick, they likely don’t have a clue as to the torque the impact driver is applying. I always retorque mine after a tire change with a torque wrench (so I can get them off if needed), and I’ve never had an issue loosening one. If you put 300 lbs on the nut and actually broke a good quality socket, then they were obviously overtightened. I can’t speak for every Toyota ever made, but in general, the studs are pressed into the hub, and the disk slides over the studs, so overtightening won’t warp the disk. My concern would be that the overtightening may have deformed or galled the threads on the stud. Does the nut tighten/loosen smoothly on the studs and do the threads look undamaged? If so, you’re probably fine, but I would pick a different installer next time. Impact drivers on wheel nuts or threaded studs are a pet peeve of mine. When I install a wheel, I may snug them up with an air wrench, but I finish off with a torque wrench.

I believe Toyota studs are typically 12 mm, and the max recommended torque depends on the grade of the steel, but my chart shows 99.8 lbs max on grade 8.8 up to 167 lbs max on the highest grade (12.9).

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Feb 13, 2019 21:34:08   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
Sooooo Sorry for you
Over the yrs. have had issues with dealer's & tire stores over torquing myself - but never to that extent
That's why I rotate my own tires - however that does not solve issues with new

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Feb 14, 2019 05:58:09   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
eugenehinds wrote:
I bought 4 new tires. Next morning one was flat. I tried to mount the spare. Taking an 18" handle and the correct size socket I stood my 216 # on the end of handle. Lug would not move. I bounced on end of handle and only succeeded in bursting the socket. This weight on 18" handle was well over 300 ft lb and same torque should be required to loosen as was used to tighten. The tire dealer found a leaking valve and used an impact wrench to remove wheel. Question: Required torque per Toyota is 80 ft lb. Will 350 ft lb of torque cause any damage to wheel, brakes, etc. Mechanic, preferably Toyota should answer this. Tire dealer says wrench set to correct torque. They obviously lied as they have no clue as to the real value.
I bought 4 new tires. Next morning one was flat. I... (show quote)


Mechanic: over 60 yrs. retired April 2018
I keep a 24" breaker bar with sockets to fit most lugs in my cars, It makes installing and removing lugs much easier.
If I remember correctly my 04 explorer used 135 ft.lbs torque on 1/2" stud.

300 ft.lbs torque will stress the lug studs on most passenger cars and light trucks, eventually they may fail or strip. I always insist on hand tightening of the lugs. I have never seen an Impact wrench that had a torque setting, prolonged "hammering" can still over tighten to some degree, when in doubt use a torque wrench!!!!!!!
While I have heard of warping of rotors by over tightening lugs I have never seen it.

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Feb 14, 2019 06:01:23   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
TriX wrote:
Unless the dealer is using some sort of torque limiting device such as a torque stick, they likely don’t have a clue as to the torque the impact driver is applying. I always retorque mine after a tire change with a torque wrench (so I can get them off if needed), and I’ve never had an issue loosening one. If you put 300 lbs on the nut and actually broke a good quality socket, then they were obviously overtightened. I can’t speak for every Toyota ever made, but in general, the studs are pressed into the hub, and the disk slides over the studs, so overtightening won’t warp the disk. My concern would be that the overtightening may have deformed or galled the threads on the stud. Does the nut tighten/loosen smoothly on the studs and do the threads look undamaged? If so, you’re probably fine, but I would pick a different installer next time. Impact drivers on wheel nuts or threaded studs are a pet peeve of mine. When I install a wheel, I may snug them up with an air wrench, but I finish off with a torque wrench.

I believe Toyota studs are typically 12 mm, and the max recommended torque depends on the grade of the steel, but my chart shows 99.8 lbs max on grade 8.8 up to 167 lbs max on the highest grade (12.9).
Unless the dealer is using some sort of torque lim... (show quote)

I don't believe lug studs are normally grade 8 or higher.

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Feb 14, 2019 06:41:39   #
Largobob
 
I buy and have tires maintained at a shop that not only uses the recommended torque wrench, but has another technician follow up to check all lugs...and both sign-off per company policy.

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Feb 14, 2019 06:55:06   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
Largobob wrote:
I buy and have tires maintained at a shop that not only uses the recommended torque wrench, but has another technician follow up to check all lugs...and both sign-off per company policy.


I believe this comes from failing to tighten the lugs nuts and having the wheels loosen and/or come off. "CYA" Actually it does protect the mechanic and company ( kind of).
This was the policy of a School bus company I worked for, started after two incidents where one wheel came loose but did not come off and another that did come off, No one was hurt!!!, we also had to gauge the holes in every wheel every time it was installed, (even the first time a wheel was removed and reinstalled on a NEW bus). The wheel lug holes Do wear out!!!!!! The nuts will torque to specs and the wheel will appear tight.

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Feb 14, 2019 07:07:20   #
Largobob
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
I believe this comes from failing to tighten the lugs nuts and having the wheels loosen and/or come off. "CYA" Actually it does protect the mechanic and company ( kind of).
This was the policy of a School bus company I worked for, started after two incidents where one wheel came loose but did not come off and another that did come off, No one was hurt!!!, we also had to gauge the holes in every wheel every time it was installed, (even the first time a wheel was removed and reinstalled on a NEW bus). The wheel lug holes Do wear out!!!!!! The nuts will torque to specs and the wheel will appear tight.
I believe this comes from failing to tighten the ... (show quote)


I suspect you are correct, Manglesphoto. Whether it' a sense of false security, or a beneficial procedure....I'll trust the use of the torque wrench over the pneumatic wrench any day! BTW: Since my vehicles are typically 4WD pickups, I would NEVER attempt to change out a wheel by myself....

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Feb 14, 2019 08:03:29   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
Largobob wrote:
I suspect you are correct, Manglesphoto. Whether it' a sense of false security, or a beneficial procedure....I'll trust the use of the torque wrench over the pneumatic wrench any day! BTW: Since my vehicles are typically 4WD pickups, I would NEVER attempt to change out a wheel by myself....

4X4 or Cars make no difference either can hurt you or worse, but using common sense its not a big deal.
But then again I really hate having to trust others to do what I can do myself.

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Feb 14, 2019 08:33:11   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
I have used a local NTB for years for all of my tire work. I believe that a number of years ago they adopted a policy where their air wrenches are set to cut off below any factory spec for lug nut tightness, and they do all final tightening with a regular torque wrench.

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Feb 14, 2019 09:00:14   #
Largobob
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
4X4 or Cars make no difference either can hurt you or worse, but using common sense its not a big deal.
But then again I really hate having to trust others to do what I can do myself.


I didn't mean to imply that 4x4 makes the difference. What makes the difference for me (at age 70), is the WEIGHT of the larger vehicle; the WEIGHT of those truck tires; that the spare is hung under the bed of the truck and has to be cranked down; and the jack that is provided is extremely inadequate. In addition, I NEVER trust anyone else working on my vehicles....I always WATCH them work. Insurance rules prevent me from going into the shop, but nothing stops me from watching through the shop door!

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Feb 14, 2019 09:30:01   #
rustfarmer
 
Someone here mentioned a torque stick. These are extensions that come in a set, each color coded and which provide a set torque regardless of air gun setting. Most tire shops use the Elbow torque wrench which may be close enough for truck tire lugs, but the new little rice rockets need careful torquing to prevent damage and possible failure. Out in my part of the boonies I see lots of older trucks with one or two lugs broken on each wheel. How do you suppose that happened? Some from rust I suppose, but many from overtorque. Some of these good old farm boys could break a lug with their teeth.

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Feb 14, 2019 09:30:19   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
I don't believe lug studs are normally grade 8 or higher.


It’s a Metric spec. In the US, we use SAE specs and we usually see grades 1,5 & 8 (but there are others). Metric bolts and threaded studs are typically 8.8, 10.9 or 12.9, and since Toyota studs are 12 mm metric... Here’s a quick explanation of the metric spec: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-12-9-in-steel-grade-12-9

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Feb 14, 2019 09:30:42   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
That's why I like to work on my own tires. I set them to the correct torque. Many shops use colored extensions to get the right torque setting. Red might be 80ft/lb and blue could 95ft/lb. Having to change settings on the gun could be iffy.

https://smile.amazon.com/STEELMAN-60167-9-Piece-2-Inch-Torque/dp/B07D927B4H/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1550154541&sr=8-5&keywords=colored+torque+extensions

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