BebuLamar

In the post "Bird photography in overcast conditions" someone suggested to us Auto ISO and fill flash. I don't know how that would work because I do not have a flash that can communicate with the camera. If someone has used it that way would you please explain how it works?

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

It doesn't!! You have an automatic camera (Auto, Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, P, Auto ISO, and a flood of other settings like "portrait, sports, etc) with one Manual setting . . . "M".

You have a flash with Manual settings and Auto settings (ETTL).

If you use both a camera auto setting and a flash auto setting at the same time, they get confused. Any "auto" settings on the camera will set for the ambient light before the scene is lit by the flash, without consideration of the light coming from the flash. The auto setting on the flash now has to quickly compensate for the new settings the "auto" camera feature has set.

It is redundant to use both camera and flash both on automatic. Best results are to set the camera manually and let the auto feature on the flash do it's stuff.

In your situation, any "auto" setting on your camera will expose for the brighter sky, leaving the bird underexposed. The flash will only effectively fill up to a distance that is probably much less than the distance you will be from the bird. Having said all of that . . . it costs nothing to experiment and try!

Hope that helps . . .

BebuLamar

I do know if you keep ISO fixed you can use flash with any modes P, S, A or M. However, I always use it on M.

User ID

That is a very good approach. Using a manual flash
or external sensor [old type of auto flash] flash the
necessary f/stop is known, and you must work at
that f/stop. So, you cannot let the camera's AE set
the f/stop. IOW, can't use P- or S-modes.

Further, you can't let the camera set shutter speeds
or it might set a speed faster than synch speed cuz
there is no communication from flash-to-camera.
IOW, can't use A-mode either. Sooooo, auto ISO is
the only form of AE allowed.

Fill flash works to longer distance than full exposure
flash, cuz fill is basically underexposure of the flash
portion of the total exposure.

.

BebuLamar

I would not work. When you set the aperture on the flash it is meant for a specific ISO. If the ISO changes the exposure will be off.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

What distance would the birds be when you fire the shutter? Under normal circumstances, what shutter speed do you use for BIF?

User ID

Yeah thaz right. The fill flash output would
be constant and the ISO would wander to
whatever :-(

No wonder I do everything in manual. Let
the camera brain intrude and everything I
ever knew doesn't work anymore.

I use AEL toggle and Lumix "1-push" AE
cuz those are really manual settings that
do not very exposure once it's set. That is
all the "auto" exposure I can deal with. I
NEVER use auto ISO cuz I don't need one
more damnt variable !

Apparently, I can't even THINK in terms
of auto ISO.


=========================


What would actually happen if you follow
my method is that as the scene brightens
ISO goes lower so you'd have more main
exposure but less fill flash in the mix. For
the opposite the main exposure would be
proper due to auto ISO but the fill flash
will be more than a weak fill-in. In most
cases the overall exposure would be good
but the balance of ambient to flash would
vary according to how ISO is responding
to changes in scene brightness.

So .... my instruction would work only in
M-mode with a fixed ISO and in A-mode
with a fixed ISO but only if you can avoid
letting A-mode outrun your synch speed,
which is a too-likely occurrence :-(

.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

I agree. auto ISO and ETTL can produce unpredictable (and poor) results. I use manual and fixed ISO with ETTL.

catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway

Set the flash to "High speed sync".

That will free you of the ISO- 250/ sec limit in daylight. ETTL or manual will work but experiment and to learn what is required for the fill you need. ISO will also be your choice.

BebuLamar

My question is really is
I know that because I don't have any dedicated flash for my camera Auto ISO wouldn't work.
However if you use a full compatible flash for your camera how would Auto ISO work with flash?

dyximan

I may be mistaken but when I shoot birds I would need a spotlight for a flash as they are often 100+ feet away from my camera. I wouldn’t think any flash other then An actual spotlight full-time would work. Does anyone actually make a flash that would shoot that far?

markinvictoria Loc: Victoria TX

That's where the Better Beamer Flash Extender comes into play.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/585196-REG/Visual_Echoes_FX_6_FX6_Better_Beamer_Flash.html

bajadreamer Loc: Baja California Sur

I use Canon gear (5D4, 7D2, 5D3) with Canon or Yongnuo flashes. I normally keep my cameras on Auto ISO with Manual Mode exposure on the camera. When I turn the flashes on, the camera automatically sets the ISO to 400. When I turn the flashes off, the ISO returns to Auto. To change the ISO on the camera when the flash is on I need to manually set it on the camera.
I use a MagMod flash extender and can routinely get adequate flash 100-150 feet away. Since I usually am shooting wildlife and/or birds I keep the flash on ETTL unless I am shooting at a fixed distance, like at a feeder. Then I switch to Manual Mode on the flash.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Not well. I tried my Canon 5D3 and Canon 600EX-RT flash with ETTL and auto ISO, and it consistently got the exposure unusably wrong - can’t speak for how other brands would perform.

olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida

I have used fill for a number of bird shots in dark areas (under tree, under canopy, in the bushes) and it has worked with DSLR and long lens and Bridge superzooms, just did it on the hope of a capture I might not otherwise get, experiment and see what you get. Also a slave setup can be quite helpful, and I've even used a fairly powerful LED shop light to illuminate dark area in the woods.