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Trump wants the wall, so what do the Dems want?
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Jan 12, 2019 11:33:03   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of history. What is different about the standoff between Trump and the Democrats that would not have occurred fifty years ago, even thirty years ago? Negotiation. So far, conversation seems to be about the wall. Day one. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." Day two. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." What blithering i***ts.

Decades ago negotiations would go something like this, after the first go-round. "I want the wall, so I'll thrown in DACA in order to get it." "A judge gave us DACA, so we want DACA with a path to citizenship AND, an agreement not to deport immigrants who have been in the country for twenty years, have established lives and no serious criminal history. Allow them to live out their lives in this country." "Agreed." "Done."

And everybody is a winner. (Now the details may be different, but you get the idea)

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Jan 12, 2019 13:01:36   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
SteveR wrote:
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of history. What is different about the standoff between Trump and the Democrats that would not have occurred fifty years ago, even thirty years ago? Negotiation. So far, conversation seems to be about the wall. Day one. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." Day two. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." What blithering i***ts.

Decades ago negotiations would go something like this, after the first go-round. "I want the wall, so I'll thrown in DACA in order to get it." "A judge gave us DACA, so we want DACA with a path to citizenship AND, an agreement not to deport immigrants who have been in the country for twenty years, have established lives and no serious criminal history. Allow them to live out their lives in this country." "Agreed." "Done."

And everybody is a winner. (Now the details may be different, but you get the idea)
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of h... (show quote)


One problem, the wall is a total waste of money and resources just to please a insane man's ego.

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Jan 12, 2019 13:31:41   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Kraken wrote:
One problem, the wall is a total waste of money and resources just to please a insane man's ego.


Let's not get into debating that, Kraken. The people of San Diego disagree, as do those in El Paso. Democrats are in denial if they don't believe that a wall or fence keeps i*****l i*******ts out of the country. Can they be subverted and overcome? Certainly. So can the Dallas Cowboys defense. But the Cowboys have still won on defense this year.

The point that I am bring up is negotiation. Give and take. There is none here. Even Cher has said to give Trump the d%@$ wall. Frankly, for 5 billion, I don't understand the Dem's int***sigence when just 10 years ago its leaders seems so in favor of it.

My point is....give Trump the wall and get something in return....the way things happened in Congress when things weren't in gridlock. But, hey, wait, we've got a bunch of int***sigent morons governing the country (I'm being bi-partisan here) that don't know the word "compromise." Otherwise the entire immigration problem would have been solved by now.

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 14:11:19   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
SteveR wrote:
Let's not get into debating that, Kraken. The people of San Diego disagree, as do those in El Paso. Democrats are in denial if they don't believe that a wall or fence keeps i*****l i*******ts out of the country. Can they be subverted and overcome? Certainly. So can the Dallas Cowboys defense. But the Cowboys have still won on defense this year.

The point that I am bring up is negotiation. Give and take. There is none here. Even Cher has said to give Trump the d%@$ wall. Frankly, for 5 billion, I don't understand the Dem's int***sigence when just 10 years ago its leaders seems so in favor of it.

My point is....give Trump the wall and get something in return....the way things happened in Congress when things weren't in gridlock. But, hey, wait, we've got a bunch of int***sigent morons governing the country (I'm being bi-partisan here) that don't know the word "compromise." Otherwise the entire immigration problem would have been solved by now.
Let's not get into debating that, Kraken. The peo... (show quote)


Did you always go out and buy your screaming and kicking 5 year old a very very useless expensive gift just to shut him up?

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 14:55:29   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
SteveR wrote:
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of history. What is different about the standoff between Trump and the Democrats that would not have occurred fifty years ago, even thirty years ago? Negotiation. So far, conversation seems to be about the wall. Day one. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." Day two. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." What blithering i***ts.

Decades ago negotiations would go something like this, after the first go-round. "I want the wall, so I'll thrown in DACA in order to get it." "A judge gave us DACA, so we want DACA with a path to citizenship AND, an agreement not to deport immigrants who have been in the country for twenty years, have established lives and no serious criminal history. Allow them to live out their lives in this country." "Agreed." "Done."

And everybody is a winner. (Now the details may be different, but you get the idea)
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of h... (show quote)


Babylon opened negotiations by claiming credit for the shutdown. Why would anyone get in his way?

"If Babylon doesn't win this one he's finished for 2019." Mitch McConnell bless him.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 20:04:35   #
jcboy3
 
SteveR wrote:
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of history. What is different about the standoff between Trump and the Democrats that would not have occurred fifty years ago, even thirty years ago? Negotiation. So far, conversation seems to be about the wall. Day one. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." Day two. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." What blithering i***ts.

Decades ago negotiations would go something like this, after the first go-round. "I want the wall, so I'll thrown in DACA in order to get it." "A judge gave us DACA, so we want DACA with a path to citizenship AND, an agreement not to deport immigrants who have been in the country for twenty years, have established lives and no serious criminal history. Allow them to live out their lives in this country." "Agreed." "Done."

And everybody is a winner. (Now the details may be different, but you get the idea)
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of h... (show quote)


You are close. In fact, you are close to the original immigration compromise. The problem: Trump backed away from it after his right wing cronies got his ear.

The problem with the current situation is not that there could be some negotiation. Of course there could be. But Trump decided to use a government shutdown as his leverage. And that is not an acceptable form of negotiation.

Consider; the US policy is to not negotiate with terrorists. Similarly, the Democrats are not negotiating with Trump over the shutdown.

And, its the Trump flip-flop problem. There was tentative agreement on an immigration reform bill that included a lot of money for border security and even a wall. Trump balked and k**led the deal.

Trump is a lousy negotiator. He has no end game. He is unwilling to actually negotiate. Giving him money for a wall now is not negotiation; it is extortion.

This is not the way to run a government. Democrats must hold firm; government shutdown should never be a bargaining chip. And the people need to hold Republicans responsible for this mess. Reasonable people will do so. Sycophants will not, but there's no hope for them anyway.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 21:20:35   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
jcboy3 wrote:
You are close. In fact, you are close to the original immigration compromise. The problem: Trump backed away from it after his right wing cronies got his ear.

The problem with the current situation is not that there could be some negotiation. Of course there could be. But Trump decided to use a government shutdown as his leverage. And that is not an acceptable form of negotiation.

Consider; the US policy is to not negotiate with terrorists. Similarly, the Democrats are not negotiating with Trump over the shutdown.

And, its the Trump flip-flop problem. There was tentative agreement on an immigration reform bill that included a lot of money for border security and even a wall. Trump balked and k**led the deal.

Trump is a lousy negotiator. He has no end game. He is unwilling to actually negotiate. Giving him money for a wall now is not negotiation; it is extortion.

This is not the way to run a government. Democrats must hold firm; government shutdown should never be a bargaining chip. And the people need to hold Republicans responsible for this mess. Reasonable people will do so. Sycophants will not, but there's no hope for them anyway.
You are close. In fact, you are close to the orig... (show quote)


On the otherhand, 25 billion for upwards of 700,000 potential Democratic v**es in the future could be why the deal was turned down. It would be a major game changer.

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 21:38:24   #
jcboy3
 
SteveR wrote:
On the otherhand, 25 billion for upwards of 700,000 potential Democratic v**es in the future could be why the deal was turned down. It would be a major game changer.


So r****m is the reason?

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:02:02   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
SteveR wrote:
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of history. What is different about the standoff between Trump and the Democrats that would not have occurred fifty years ago, even thirty years ago? Negotiation. So far, conversation seems to be about the wall. Day one. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." Day two. "I want the wall." "No, you can't have the wall." What blithering i***ts.

Decades ago negotiations would go something like this, after the first go-round. "I want the wall, so I'll thrown in DACA in order to get it." "A judge gave us DACA, so we want DACA with a path to citizenship AND, an agreement not to deport immigrants who have been in the country for twenty years, have established lives and no serious criminal history. Allow them to live out their lives in this country." "Agreed." "Done."

And everybody is a winner. (Now the details may be different, but you get the idea)
The advantage of getting older is a knowledge of h... (show quote)


Trump doesn't want to deal. He doesn't care about the wall. He lives for the fight. What is important to him is to appear strong. Have you figured out yet that he isn't a deal maker?

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:05:52   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
SteveR wrote:
Let's not get into debating that, Kraken. The people of San Diego disagree, as do those in El Paso. Democrats are in denial if they don't believe that a wall or fence keeps i*****l i*******ts out of the country. Can they be subverted and overcome? Certainly. So can the Dallas Cowboys defense. But the Cowboys have still won on defense this year.

The point that I am bring up is negotiation. Give and take. There is none here. Even Cher has said to give Trump the d%@$ wall. Frankly, for 5 billion, I don't understand the Dem's int***sigence when just 10 years ago its leaders seems so in favor of it.

My point is....give Trump the wall and get something in return....the way things happened in Congress when things weren't in gridlock. But, hey, wait, we've got a bunch of int***sigent morons governing the country (I'm being bi-partisan here) that don't know the word "compromise." Otherwise the entire immigration problem would have been solved by now.
Let's not get into debating that, Kraken. The peo... (show quote)


Allowing Trump to use hostages to get his way is probably a bad precedent. He has only used a fraction of what he was given last year and there is 1.6 billion in the current bill. To him it's all about his image.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:08:53   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
SteveR wrote:
On the otherhand, 25 billion for upwards of 700,000 potential Democratic v**es in the future could be why the deal was turned down. It would be a major game changer.


Trump will be gone before any of them would be able to v**e. Surely you don't believe he gives a s**t about the Republican party if it doesn't effect him?

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 22:09:41   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
jcboy3 wrote:
So r****m is the reason?


It is, but probably not like Steve expressed.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:44:54   #
EyeSawYou
 
jcboy3 wrote:
So r****m is the reason?


LOL when was a group or persons ethnic background mentioned? Everything is about r****m in a truly r****t mind, yours.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:45:38   #
EyeSawYou
 
thom w wrote:
It is, but probably not like Steve expressed.


Liar.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:53:45   #
jcboy3
 
EyeSawYou wrote:
LOL when was a group or persons ethnic background mentioned? Everything is about r****m in a truly r****t mind, yours.


Wasn't mentioned, but implied.

And it was a question, not a statement.

And of course, you make it an insult. Typical of one who can no longer discuss the topic.

Reply
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