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Art vs Image?? SOOC vs PP? Could we live & let live either way?
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Jan 12, 2019 09:00:08   #
Jeffcs
 
SOOC or OOC I personally came from film days and the photography club that I belonged to had 3 basic competitions types
A) Color Print
B) B&W Print
C) Color Slides
Well Color slides were SOOC and for me I’ve carried that with me into the digital age, I never share any of my images SOOC I am quite proficient with PS.
My point here is I always start with the best images that I can and every digital image need some tweaking, we did all that in the darkroom.

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Jan 12, 2019 09:40:30   #
CatMarley
 
dione961 wrote:
Hey Bob, thanks for your views. I kind of have to learn PP even though I am trying to show what I see, because I have many images that need corrections. Here's a shot taken during a street festival in Japan last year; not a bad image, until you see the elbow stick out of the baby's ear!! I wish I had known then how to blur out the background & I'm hoping I can learn to do it now by PP, even though I only have JPEG's. May be wishful thinking!!


You mean like this? Very simple with a very old editor - Photoimpact 10!



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Jan 12, 2019 09:48:24   #
R.G. (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
.......is there a way we can all just live and let live?


Yes, it's quite simple. Do what you want PP-wise and ignore other people's attempts to categorise or declare one methodology as being superior or more virtuous than another. Develop the methodology that gives you the results that you want, and ignore anybody who suggests that some other methodology is better in some way.

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Jan 12, 2019 09:50:07   #
jerryc41 (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much.


They really don't. It's just something people like to argue over.

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Jan 12, 2019 10:28:43   #
cmaxi
 
Seems like a lot of snobbery or snarkiness here. At the end of the day, the photo is either evocative or not. Those who view your photos, for the most part, don't care about how you got there. They don't care, or know about your equipment, either.
I have zillions of perfectly exposed and sharp shots of birds, cars, planes, etc. Just records of what I saw.
The photo below was taken with a Canon 5d and 17-40L. It was raining very hard, as it was the beginning of another hurricane. Got home to find that the rain on my lens spoiled the sharpness and clarity of the photo. It turned out to be one of my favorite beach photos. Yep, accidentally. There's a lesson there. I really don't care whether or not someone else likes it, or sees it as art. I like it.


(Download)

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Jan 12, 2019 10:47:02   #
mikeroetex
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
@

Nothing wrong with producing and sharing lots of pictures; but there is something wrong in taking oneself too seriously.



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Jan 12, 2019 10:47:12   #
cdogtoo
 
cmaxi wrote:
Seems like a lot of snobbery or snarkiness here. At the end of the day, the photo is either evocative or not. Those who view your photos, for the most part, don't care about how you got there. They don't care, or know about your equipment, either.
I have zillions of perfectly exposed and sharp shots of birds, cars, planes, etc. Just records of what I saw.
The photo below was taken with a Canon 5d and 17-40L. It was raining very hard, as it was the beginning of another hurricane. Got home to find that the rain on my lens spoiled the sharpness and clarity of the photo. It turned out to be one of my favorite beach photos. Yep, accidentally. There's a lesson there. I really don't care whether or not someone else likes it, or sees it as art. I like it.
Seems like a lot of snobbery or snarkiness here. A... (show quote)



Spot on. It is nice to have others enjoy/appreciate your work, but at the end of the day what matters most is that you shoot for yourself.

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Jan 12, 2019 11:00:29   #
mikeroetex
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)

I dabbled in film photography as a young man and had to get it right in camera 99% of the time. I put photography away for 30 years and started the hobby again 10 years ago. I naturally shot everything Manual and SOOC. I only knew of jpg, what was that RAW setting for?
I then learned of RAW and I could "fix" things in PP. Wow! So I got lazy about WB and exposure and composition (just crop it later) and such.
Nowadays, as I s-l-o-w-l-y learn more about LR and PS, I find that the more attention I pay to in-camera, the easier PP is and I set the stage for success. I also only shoot in RAW, not wasting XQD or SD card space.
So I'm a hybrid SOOC/PP'er. Here is the kicker.... never cared about other people's thoughts or stances one way or the other. I do this for me . So sue me or criticize me if you will, I'm not paying attention, LOL! Enjoy your journey!

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Jan 12, 2019 11:52:29   #
photoman022
 
NO WE CAN'T!!!! YOU HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY BECAUSE MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!!

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Jan 12, 2019 13:31:43   #
burkphoto (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)


Um, yes?

There are probably a zillion opinions here. We are mostly an older crowd who know what we like. We know what we think about the world, and how we think it is structured. That's influenced by culture, education, experience, family, peer pressure, and all sorts of other baggage that makes us who we are.

How I see my work as a photographer is completely different from many others' work, yet similar to many others' work. And that's okay! I respect others' rights to do as they please, so long as they don't step on my rights. We reach problem territory when people get into narrow, ignorant, fundamentalist mindsets — i.e.; "My way of thinking or belief system is right and yours isn't."

I make some attempts at art photography. I do some photojournalism, some portraiture, some event photography, and a lot of step-by-step training documentation. I do stills, video, and hybrids of both.

Once in a while, I'll photograph a sports event, or a landscape, but I'm really not equipped for that work, so I have to rent gear to do it.

I use some "SOOC" JPEG workflow, mostly for low-budget, tight deadline, controlled lighting in a studio setting sorts of work. I use a raw workflow with post processing for anything I need to manipulate, and in situations where the environment, lighting, and other factors are fluid.

It helps that I worked in black-and-white for a long time before I took up slide photography to create AV shows and multi-image programs back in the '70s and '80s. Everything I learned in the darkroom helped me learn Photoshop and Lightroom and work with raw files. There are digital parallels for virtually everything we ever did with film.

I also learned techniques that benefit 'SOOC' work. Everything we did with slide films has a parallel with JPEG capture. It's just a lot easier with digital!

So, I just like photography. It's a very versatile tool for me. But it's always been just one of my favorite tools. The others are all convergence technologies exemplified by the tools in my iPhone.

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Jan 12, 2019 13:55:35   #
BboH
 
Bob
Knowing the issue, its removal makes a difference, yes. But, not knowing the issue until someone commented, the elbow, or whatever, did not, to my eye detract or distract.... it was just part of the scene.

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Jan 12, 2019 14:51:36   #
AndyH (a regular here)
 
Jeffcs wrote:
SOOC or OOC I personally came from film days and the photography club that I belonged to had 3 basic competitions types
A) Color Print
B) B&W Print
C) Color Slides
Well Color slides were SOOC and for me I’ve carried that with me into the digital age...


Color slides were SOOC only if you were showing them to a roomful of friends vicariously enjoying your summer vacation. If you made prints for display or sharing, processing was certainly involved, including control of exposure, contrast, and even other aspects like hue and white balance.

The dynamic ranges of transparency films were much larger than negative films when projected, but compression was nearly impossible until digital PP became available.

Andy

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Jan 12, 2019 16:04:12   #
dione961
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Yes we can live and let live as long as others will stop trying to take what we have worked hard for and giving it to others who refuse to work. Yes, as long as we can keep our individual liberty to do as we want as long as it does not infringe on anyone else's individual liberty.

Like you I have traveled off the beaten path and that is the common feeling of humanity. But there are those in power that hate the idea of liberty and keeping what you work for so until they are all killed there will never be that state.
Yes we can live and let live as long as others wil... (show quote)


Hi & thanks for your comments. I love UHH because it's a place where we can share; where extremes are moderated; where joy and beauty & love are openly expressed (through images in this case). If life reflected these 3 values we'd all be less angry. Someone else said it - UHH is an oasis.

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Jan 12, 2019 16:07:19   #
dione961
 
Szalajj wrote:
Just a suggestion as you are learning. After each step in your editing process, save the file with a - "something" after the original file name.

I use -e for edited; -c for cropped and -w when I add a signature/copyright to the file.

Taking these file saving steps will allow you to back up to a given point if you later decide that one of the adjustments that you made took you in the wrong direction in your editing process, or if you need the file without the visible signature.

I've learned the hard way that those intermediate saves are often a lifesaver or a time saver.

Don't forget to add your copyright information right in your camera settings.

And if it hasn't also been suggested, get yourself a portable hard drive to back-up your photos onto because eventually you will either run out of space on your computer, or your computer could crash, taking all of your photographs with it.

Enjoy the learning process it's a journey that you'll find a lot of support for here on the UHH.

But there will be many vocal critics sprinkled in as well. Read what they say, but learn to recognize that they may have their own agenda that is likely counter to your objectives and put them on your ignore list if they become obnoxious.
Just a suggestion as you are learning. After each... (show quote)


Hi! These are super tips - thank you so much. I have 2 hard drives & back up fully every month. I will go learn how to copyright - I guess I didn't feel my shots were that valuable, may be in time, as I'm just a novice; but I will get this done. Can I add copyright info after a shot - with PSE for example?

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Jan 12, 2019 16:12:08   #
dione961
 
photoman022 wrote:
NO WE CAN'T!!!! YOU HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY BECAUSE MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!!



This is gold - thanks so much for making me laugh. I'm still laughing!! Brilliant!!

Thanks also to the many encouraging and informative replies. You're all wonderful.

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