Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Art vs Image?? SOOC vs PP? Could we live & let live either way?
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 next>>
Jan 11, 2019 18:54:56   #
dione961
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Certainly, For Your Consideration is a good place to receive constructive feedback. But also, if your subject is applicable, Landscape or Close-up, among others.

Be sure to ask in your opening what you're looking to have discussed. BUT...my earlier comments also refer to participating as a respondent and viewer. If you are not comfortable giving feedback, you can always ask questions of the photographer.

Mentor: feel free to pm me any photos or questions you wish. I'm here every day
Certainly, For Your Consideration is a good place ... (show quote)


Thanks Linda (and the 2 guys!). You are an angel to offer mentorship - you represent, like the Japan pic here - what I'm trying to do: show the beauty & love that's all around us. Someone did trash the background of this pic though & now it's hard not to see it!! What do you think of this pic, or, should I ask that in another section?

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 18:57:52   #
Linda From Maine (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
Thanks Linda (and the 2 guys!). You are an angel to offer mentorship - you represent, like the Japan pic here - what I'm trying to do: show the beauty & love that's all around us. Someone did trash the background of this pic though & now it's hard not to see it!! What do you think of this pic, or, should I ask that in another section?
The expression is wonderful, and the exposure looks good to me. You might want to post in one of the people-related forums (or For Your Consideration) as I'm not a people person. Ask me about landscapes and animals

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 20:37:23   #
srt101fan (a regular here)
 
rmalarz wrote:
A very simple approach is photography is there are some sub-categories. For those that rely on SOOC for their photographs I'd consider those snapshots. Those who produce photographs do processing of the images with the idea of what the final will look like prior to activating the shutter. They rely on exposure techniques and processing to achieve that vision.

From your description, it would appear that you are working more in the documentary area and those, by convention, shouldn't be processed. I'd applaud your approach to attempting to get as much as possible correct in camera. That can be challenging. Today's cameras can do a lot to assist in your approach.
--Bob
A very simple approach is photography is there are... (show quote)


Bob, I greatly admire your talent and willingness to help learners (like me) on UHH. But I can't let you get away with your comments that SOOC photographs are "snapshots" and, by implication, to be a real photographer you have to post process. Come on, Bob, say it isn't so!?

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 20:59:49   #
dione961
 
rmalarz wrote:
Hopefully, this was what I meant.
--Bob


Wow Bob - I don't know how on earth do you do that but it's sure neat! SO much to learn. Just installed PSE - never used PP before so all ahead of me!

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 21:06:56   #
rmalarz (a regular here)
 
Dione, I hope you enjoy your voyage into processing. Here are a fact and a tip. You won't learn it all in one day. So, don't try to. Remember school. You had a class for (x) months. You didn't learn everything the class taught in one day. You learned a little at a time. Do the same with whatever processing software you decide to use. I've been doing this digital stuff for 18 years, give or take. I'm still learning new techniques. So, don't frustrate yourself trying to learn it all at once.

As for the retouch, it was a matter of minutes. But, I'd done that sort of thing before. Here's an example, which was published in a book on photo retouching and restoration. This was my first restoration project. It took several weeks of doing just a little at a time. After 32 layers, it was complete.
http://malarz.com/services/as/index.html
--Bob

dione961 wrote:
Wow Bob - I don't know how on earth do you do that but it's sure neat! SO much to learn. Just installed PSE - never used PP before so all ahead of me!

| Reply
Jan 11, 2019 21:07:35   #
Haydon
 
I do my share of PP but I don't believe ALL shots SOOC are necessarily snapshots. In a studio environment, where you can ultimately control light quality, light/shadow angle, an exacting point of focus, placement of the subject without worries of changing conditions, images may require essentially no post processing if carefully prepared. A few of my best images required nothing more than a little sharpening and conversion from RAW to jpg.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 06:42:42   #
camerapapi (a regular here)
 
" For those that rely on SOOC for their photographs I'd consider those snapshots" Did you also consider "snapshots" Bob those images made with slide film?
When we talk about SOOC we are referring to JPEG images. A good majority of those images are of excellent quality simply because modern JPEG engines are today superior to what they were just 5 years ago. Some of my best images have come SOOC and please understand I also use RAW data.
I plan a JPEG image the same way I plan a RAW one. Same composition, same thoughts to details. Less processing with JPEG. RAW data has everything captured by the sensor but requires skills to obtain all the goodness in that data and in my case I do not always come close to what I envisioned. I feel that in many cases a JPEG image gives me more flexibility but that is me.
After all my RAW images end up as JPEG when I use them for the Internet or when I take them to a professional lab for printing. Surely that the conversion will make me loose data.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 06:47:53   #
Delderby (a regular here)
 
Haydon wrote:
I do my share of PP but I don't believe ALL shots SOOC are necessarily snapshots. In a studio environment, where you can ultimately control light quality, light/shadow angle, an exacting point of focus, placement of the subject without worries of changing conditions, images may require essentially no post processing if carefully prepared. A few of my best images required nothing more than a little sharpening and conversion from RAW to jpg.


You are correct. More thought needs to go into a JPG for SOOC than a RAW for PP. And I don't just mean a studio environment. Let us all face up to the FACT that PP can hide (or improve?) a multitude and often does. A photographer (IMHO) is a person who uses a camera to produce a photograph. That is possible (and to print it) without a computer. But horses are for courses. Show me a photographer that never takes snaps and I won't show you a horse - I will show you a donkey!

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 06:58:56   #
Szalajj
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)

The skill of a good to great photographer is measured by their ability to capture the shot with the correct exposure settings before they press the shutter release.

But even Ansel Adams adjusted his exposures in post processing when he printed his shots.

I strive to get my exposures right on scene but often a very slight adjustment in post processing will make the shot absolutely pop off the page!

There was also a shot by another UHH member of a night sky that he was satisfied with, but with his permission I made a small tweak to the shadows and it revealed the star reflections on the water, and the colors in the clouds in that shot.

So it all depends on how satisfied the shooter is with what they captured, and if they want to edit the shot, or have the ability or capability to edit their shot. Sometimes a shooter doesn't know that a shot could be improved with just a little post processing.

How many of you are old enough to remember the Brylcream advertisement, "a little dab will do you"?

Then there are those who push the envelope and totally blow out the original shot with over processing and call it art.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 07:20:36   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?


Yes we can live and let live as long as others will stop trying to take what we have worked hard for and giving it to others who refuse to work. Yes, as long as we can keep our individual liberty to do as we want as long as it does not infringe on anyone else's individual liberty.

Like you I have traveled off the beaten path and that is the common feeling of humanity. But there are those in power that hate the idea of liberty and keeping what you work for so until they are all killed there will never be that state.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 07:27:51   #
Szalajj
 
dione961 wrote:
Hey, thanks for posting; definitely know I can't change the world; just want to show what really is out there. I do spend time reading here - especially when it's up to 20 degrees below freezing out. 99% of the time, I just read, or read & go elsewhere for more info. But, it is hard to butt sometimes.

As I just posted to Bob, I need to learn PP, and by major co-incidence, my copy of PSE just turned up, just 10 mins ago, so I'll have something fun to do until I can get outside again!! Have an awesome day.
Hey, thanks for posting; definitely know I can't c... (show quote)

Just a suggestion as you are learning. After each step in your editing process, save the file with a - "something" after the original file name.

I use -e for edited; -c for cropped and -w when I add a signature/copyright to the file.

Taking these file saving steps will allow you to back up to a given point if you later decide that one of the adjustments that you made took you in the wrong direction in your editing process, or if you need the file without the visible signature.

I've learned the hard way that those intermediate saves are often a lifesaver or a time saver.

Don't forget to add your copyright information right in your camera settings.

And if it hasn't also been suggested, get yourself a portable hard drive to back-up your photos onto because eventually you will either run out of space on your computer, or your computer could crash, taking all of your photographs with it.

Enjoy the learning process it's a journey that you'll find a lot of support for here on the UHH.

But there will be many vocal critics sprinkled in as well. Read what they say, but learn to recognize that they may have their own agenda that is likely counter to your objectives and put them on your ignore list if they become obnoxious.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 08:12:58   #
billnikon (a regular here)
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)


If you wonder why these things matter so much, WHY POST IT.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 08:13:08   #
cdogtoo
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
If you think you're going to change the world or even the small UHH virtual portion of it, you're going to be as disappointed as most ....

The two things you can control is how you evolve your vision of your photography work and how / if you respond to others. Although you can influence others, you can't control their responses to your work except by not sharing at all. Don't let the naysayers, who tend to be the more vocal online, influence your own sense of self.

If you get caught into every up vs down, left vs right argument on UHH, you're wasting time that would be better spent shooting and editing, learning and sharing. Expressing a worry about whether to process or not seems to indicate you've been listening to voices that may be loud but tend to have nothing useful to say.
If you think you're going to change the world or e... (show quote)



| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 08:38:29   #
CatMarley
 
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)


Of course. IMHO the reason for a hobbiest shooting JPG and raw is that once in a while you have a shot that captured a great moment but the exposure was "off" and you can rescue it if you have the raw file and can work it in a way you cannot rework a JPG. Raw is backup, or a storehouse for future experimentation if desired. Most pros will be using SOOC because they are busy and don't have the time or need for extreme manipulation, but they HAVE the possibility of rescuing a mistake if they have the raw file.

| Reply
Jan 12, 2019 08:48:52   #
Kmgw9v (a regular here)
 
@
dione961 wrote:
I was wondering why these things matter so much. But then I realised that even that is OK. Have your own opinion, vision, etc., but maybe, let others have theirs as well??

I've travelled a good part of the world - almost all of it "off the beaten track". I began travelling for a reason: to learn about the lives and views of people outside my own narrow world. I use a camera to capture what I find out there (here) and what I do find is this: there is pure, simple love, and arresting beauty, literally everywhere - even right at home. You don't have to look to find it: you just see it. The camera is my tool for trying to capture it. I haven't worked out how to show other people what I'm finding, but that's my vision: to show the love and beauty that is absolutely everywhere around us, that we are part of. Every image I make is an effort to show this.

I don't think of my efforts as art, but as a story. I am trying hard to learn how to get most things "right" (fraught as that term is) before I press the shutter, because I have no PP skills or software.

Yet it seems as though it should be OK for others to see their work (or anyone's work) as art, or not; and to think SOOC is "pure", or not, or PP as "inevitable" or not, and so on. Provided it's done respectfully, maybe even thoughtfully, all such views should be OK to share, especially on this forum.

So, at great risk of being labelled a hypocrite for even asking the question, is there a way we can all just live and let live?
I was wondering why these things matter so much. ... (show quote)


Nothing wrong with producing and sharing lots of pictures; but there is something wrong in taking oneself too seriously.

| Reply
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 next>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2019 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.