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Tariffs - Who pays it?
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Jan 7, 2019 09:14:55   #
Mama Bear984
 
Let’s not let this site get political. There are lots of other places to share your view.
This is a photography site let’s keep that in mind.

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Jan 7, 2019 09:29:49   #
davyboy
 
wireloose wrote:
You can judge on results or intentions. Look at Brazil if you want to see the benefits of high tariff barriers. I see customers moving production out of the US to stay competitive, as our costs go up. Routing product that used to go through a US warehouse and on to Brazil to a foreign one. Stopping production entirely as costs are now uncompetitive. Chinese electronics suppliers who are busier than ever as we lose our component business to them..which is what their gvernment wanted. Its not hard to make a case for punishing China but tariff wars have a lot of negative consequences, and hurt us globally. There was a reason the US aluminum industry argued against the tariffs that were supposed to help them. Look at the analysts calculations of jobs lost vs jobs gained. And thats before the retaliatory tariffs from our trade partners- our enemies in Canada and Europe.
Its ugly and the consequences will be long lasting and go well beyond US consumers paying higher prices for many products.
You can judge on results or intentions. Look at B... (show quote)

What’s your suggestion!

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Jan 7, 2019 09:38:25   #
cheineck
 
All valid opinions... would anyone prefer Hillary?

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Jan 7, 2019 09:40:03   #
mas24 (a regular here)
 
The consumers pay the Tariffs. A new American car will cost a small fortune in China because of Tariffs. Much more than an American paying for that same new car in America. Only, the very rich can afford those Tariffs in China. China does not want their market flooded with foreign products. And since they can produce at cheaper labor, they can flood the world market with cheaper product's. I have not been to Tokyo, Japan in many years, I saw no American cars on their roads. My relatives and friends primarily purchase Japanese cars. I'm one of the few, in my family, who owns an American car. All the repair parts for it are mostly made in China, at most American Auto Parts Stores.

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Jan 7, 2019 10:03:06   #
olemikey (a regular here)
 
NCMtnMan wrote:
Understand. But, how do you suggest that we combat a country like China that is trying to destroy our economy by flooding the market with government subsidized products that are often the result of them stealing our companies intellectual knowledge and patents? These are not capitalistic countries. They are communist countries using the marketplace as a weapon.


Another huge problem with all of this is that we are our own worst enemy - our own corporations started the job migration to other countries when it became more profitable for the companies & shareholders to ditch spending on our own future and American workers. This really got going after WW2, when American factory machining was wearing out and needed to be replaced, they discovered they could make the items in other countries for a pittance, and profit would be very great, and well, you see where many of our industries ended up going, as they built new factories in the other countries and we trained their workers, rather than investing here.

It was very shortsighted for the American economy and worker, but very profitable for the shareholders. The same thing has happened to the Japanese, as they were once a prime target of these moves, then other countries became better at it and did it cheaper, and their jobs and factories started migrating for greater profit. It goes on and on, country by country. I could have went to CHINA for MDAC in the late 80's early 90's when we were teaching the Chinese how to build jet airliners, to teach them how to supply and run their factories (this is a true statement).

Now, automation will further denigrate the ability of the American worker to thrive and prosper, as robots only need programming, power and maintenance (and a couple of folks can service a whole fleet of robots), no insurance, no healthcare, no pension, no salary. If we also stop immigration, we will also harm our economy as it was basically built on the premise of an ever expanding population requiring more goods and services, and will also harm our programs like Social Security and Medicare as there are less and less viable contributions to the pool.

We are in a tough spot that we basically created, and isolationism isn't the answer, it will take us even further down the tunnel of no return. We could go the even further into the "make war & profit" arena, but that would no doubt result in the deaths of million/billions and maybe destroy us all, as we can't take on everybody and hope to survive (we'd would have had to do that after WW2, as it was maybe possible at that time).

Every country wants to use the world marketplace to their best ability, and we gave away our competitive edge. The jobs might come back (well, some might) if we work for a pittance like the workers in the countries that inherited our jobs and factory base. When I talk to young folks about the future, I stress the education part as we will need highly specialized workers to hope to stay near the top. It will be a tough road ahead.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:28:18   #
HardwareGuy
 
You say Trump "LIED"??? NO, say it isn't so!
Seriously, when doesn't he?
Being in retail, we are seeing these tariffs hit YOU the consumer with cost and retail increases.
Poster is right, the buyer takes the hit and passes it on to to the re-seller, who in the end, has to pass it on to the consumer.
Screwing over the "little people" is just his way, he cannot help it.
And he wants us to pay for the wall, not Mexico. How conveniently he has uh, "lied" about that, too.
OK...back to photography!!

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Jan 7, 2019 11:31:26   #
HardwareGuy
 
Mama Bear984 wrote:
Let’s not let this site get political. There are lots of other places to share your view.
This is a photography site let’s keep that in mind.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but this is the "General Chit Chat" section where we vent one way or the other once in a while.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:43:42   #
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Jan 7, 2019 11:53:20   #
Notorious T.O.D. (a regular here)
 
The worker who still has a job might be better off... As an IT professional
I watched many jobs be outsourced to India and some to Russia in the past 20 years. That didn't help the US IT workers. I saw the same thing with engineering in industry. GM liked sending engineering jobs to Mexico where an engineer cost 20 percent of what they did in the US. Then the Mexican engineers saw that if they could come to the US they could make many times what they make in Mexico. Meanwhile the un or under employed IT workers and engineers are not going to buy the ever increasingly expensive cars.

If corporations paid zero tax would that not be good. If they paid 100 percent taxes why would they bother being in business. The goal of business is to make money and build shareholder equity. As a business man I think Trump understands this much better than the average lawyer in congress. The debate comes down to what are the best mechanisms to get the desired results. This is where those who dislike tariffs don't want tariffs. Consumers/spenders pay for everything a successful business does other than growth investments, equity, that the business owns. Same as taxpayers pay for everything the government has or does outside of the money it borrows in our name.

What a Trump is really trying to do is level and create a fair marketplace. Some will say he is in fact distorting the free marketplace. But let's say that every other country can produce better steel for less money than the US. Would we be smart to not make any steel here and depend only on others? Some would argue yes, we should focus on other things. I would argue no because steel is important as a part of our country's defense readiness.

Bottom line is these are very complex issues and there are no easy answers. But China especially has been ripping us off for years thanks to the globalist and our own leaders.

Bunko.T wrote:
I agree the consumer pays all. But is it not a smoke & mirrors way of hoodwinking the sheep into thinking he's doing the consumer a good turn?
Even if he cuts company tax but puts Tarif on the imports, the consumer is no better off, & neither is the nation. The local product is no cheaper, they pay tax, with discount, a little less, but more than covered by Tarif, giving govt a bonanza.
If the Tarif was removed & tax break made it price competitive, making it more buyer friendly, the govt gets less. So who is he fooling?? The consumer to pay more tax.
Just a Pea & Thimble way to achieve what? The consumer gets it in the neck always.
Like the Mexicans paying for the wall. Yeah?? You the tax payers pay for it???
I agree the consumer pays all. But is it not a smo... (show quote)

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Jan 7, 2019 11:58:20   #
Notorious T.O.D. (a regular here)
 
So in your world if Trump wasn't president the consumer wouldn't be paying the tab for everything... The portion of our economy that the tariffs actually impact is very small...

HardwareGuy wrote:
You say Trump "LIED"??? NO, say it isn't so!
Seriously, when doesn't he?
Being in retail, we are seeing these tariffs hit YOU the consumer with cost and retail increases.
Poster is right, the buyer takes the hit and passes it on to to the re-seller, who in the end, has to pass it on to the consumer.
Screwing over the "little people" is just his way, he cannot help it.
And he wants us to pay for the wall, not Mexico. How conveniently he has uh, "lied" about that, too.
OK...back to photography!!
You say Trump "LIED"??? NO, say it isn't... (show quote)

| Reply
Jan 7, 2019 12:12:01   #
HardwareGuy
 
davyboy wrote:
What’s your suggestion!

I think he has proven that this question is no longer valid.

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Jan 7, 2019 12:43:11   #
thom w (a regular here)
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
My view is that the customer pays for everything that a successful company does...including corporate taxes. Now lower taxes would allow a company to charge less for their product perhaps. I will agree that the buyer pays the tariff but I believe the idea is to reduce the sales of the sellers product and increase the sales of the product from other sources, preferribly domestic. The tariff therefore attempts to punish or restrict one producer and encourage or help others.


The OP presented evidence of direct falsehoods from POTUS and you are off on the purpose of tariffs. Interesting, but not the same subject.

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Jan 7, 2019 13:11:19   #
wireloose
 
You can judge on results or intentions. Look at Brazil if you want to see the benefits of high tariff barriers. I see customers moving production out of the US to stay competitive, as our costs go up. Routing product that used to go through a US warehouse and on to Brazil to a foreign one. Stopping production entirely as costs are now uncompetitive. Chinese electronics suppliers who are busier than ever as we lose our component business to them..which is what their gvernment wanted. Its not hard to make a case for punishing China but tariff wars have a lot of negative consequences, and hurt us globally. There was a reason the US aluminum industry argued against the tariffs that were supposed to help them. Look at the analysts calculations of jobs lost vs jobs gained. And thats before the retaliatory tariffs from our trade partners- our enemies in Canada and Europe.
Its ugly and the consequences will be long lasting and go well beyond US consumers paying higher prices for many products.

| Reply
Jan 7, 2019 13:12:48   #
Steven Seward (a regular here)
 
Howard5252 wrote:
For those unfamiliar with exactly what a tariff is ... It is basically a tax imposed by the government on imported goods and therefore serves as a source of income to the government. If a government wants to protect its own steel industry, it may add a tariff to imported steel, to make sure that the imported steel isn't cheaper than the locally manufactured steel. So now the question is "Who pays the tariff"? President Trump has been telling everyone that China has paid millions into our treasury because of the tariffs on steel coming in from that country. THAT IS A LIE!
The tariff is paid by the importer (buyer) not the exporter (seller). In other words anyone buying steel from China pays the cost of that steel, which includes the tariff. The BUYER pays the tariff (which goes into the US treasury). Anyone buying steel from China will pay the tariff - NOT CHINA! The buyer may absorb the extra cost but more likely will pass the extra cost along to the final buyer - the consumer (you).
Before you write a response that says the president is not lying, do a bit of research about tariffs; you will find out that the buyer pays - NOT the seller. China has not paid a nickel into our treasury.
For those unfamiliar with exactly what a tariff is... (show quote)

I think you summed it up perfectly! The consumer pays all tariffs and hidden government costs. It is all figured into the price of every product.

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Jan 7, 2019 13:22:05   #
lamiaceae (a regular here)
 
chfrus wrote:
Interesting but what has got to do with photography?


Nothing it seems. That is why it got moved to The Attic!

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