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Digital Noise
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Dec 15, 2018 16:33:22   #
brianmen
 
Topaz A/I Clear is definitely the go. I hate noise but with this software I am much more relaxed shooting at higher ISO. Well worth the investment. They regularly have great deals, just watch out for them. If you watch their webinars they always have a discount code at the end. Either 20% or 25%. You would also be blown away by their precision detail and precision contrast filters. I still use LR and PS but Topaz is now in all my workflow, particularly AI Clear. For nature shots the 2 precision filters are spot on.

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Dec 15, 2018 16:58:54   #
tomcat
 
selmslie wrote:
It was not designed to be pushed beyond 6400. The extra 2 stops are there for exceptional situations. Otherwise they would be part of the normal sequence of ISO settings.

If I wanted better low light performance I would have picked a lower resolution than either my D610 or A7 II.

PS: My Df compares well with the A9 between ISO 400 and 512000.


Someone just posted a shot from his Df on another thread (Noise) and it looks exceptional at 12,800. I heard a rumor that the camera was based on a D4. Do you know for sure? I'd like to see a D3s image compared with the Df under the same shooting conditions (not data from DxO)

thanks, Tom

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Dec 15, 2018 17:04:51   #
R.G. (a regular here)
 
jonjacobik wrote:
.....I'm looking for all those creatures posing in the sunlight, but most are hiding in the shade.


If they're literally posing (i.e. not flying) then you don't need a shutter speed of 1/2000. Even BIFs need something in the region of 1/1200 or so. And a 600mm lens doesn't warrant that fast a shutter speed either. A monopod or good camera-holding technique should make much slower shutter speeds OK.

Where PP is concerned, a good dose of edge-based sharpening to strengthen the edges will make the shot more resilient to denoise. Very small detail in a noisy shot isn't going to do well because the noise is the same size as fine detail and micro-detail. But bigger edges can be strengthened. In ACR (Lr, Ps, PSE), if you turn up the Masking in the Sharpen tool you can crank the sharpening up high because it'll target the larger edges but avoid the very small detail (and the noise). And in the Denoise section you want the Details slider to be as high as possible. Start with it at the high end and bring it down only as far as is necessary to soften the noise.

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Dec 15, 2018 17:11:58   #
selmslie (a regular here)
 
tomcat wrote:
Someone just posted a shot from his Df on another thread (Noise) and it looks exceptional at 12,800. I heard a rumor that the camera was based on a D4. Do you know for sure? I'd like to see a D3s image compared with the Df under the same shooting conditions (not data from DxO)

thanks, Tom

Photography Life says that, "the Df is basically a DSLR with a retro design, D4 sensor and D600 guts..."

I got mine used for situations where I want better noise performance and compatibility with older lenses. Less resolution is not a problem with images in darker situations and I get a smaller raw file to work with.

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Dec 15, 2018 18:12:12   #
NCMtnMan
 
Try Topaz Studio for free and their AI Clear Pro adjustment. You can try it for free for 30 days and right now it's on sale for less than $50. Does a phenomenal job to reduce noise as well as sharpen.

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Dec 15, 2018 20:57:15   #
tomcat
 
NCMtnMan wrote:
Try Topaz Studio for free and their AI Clear Pro adjustment. You can try it for free for 30 days and right now it's on sale for less than $50. Does a phenomenal job to reduce noise as well as sharpen.


Thanks for the plug, but you're about 4 pages late on your endorsement.....lol

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Dec 15, 2018 21:00:23   #
NCMtnMan
 
tomcat wrote:
Thanks for the plug, but you're about 4 pages late on your endorsement.....lol


That's fine. Better late, than never!

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Dec 15, 2018 21:53:13   #
User ID (a regular here)
 
`

jonjacobik wrote:

While taking photos under ideal conditions
is always the best way ............

.... to produce exceedingly boring images :-(


.

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Dec 15, 2018 22:11:24   #
User ID (a regular here)
 
`

TriX wrote:


Not as inexpensive as NR SW, but if you shoot a lot of
low light/high ISO, the largest sensor and fastest lenses
you can afford will help mitigate the issue (less noise at
high ISOs to repair). So far, I like Topaz, but have only
used NIK and PS as comparisons.



Check out some fast lenses and big sensors, cuz this
is what happens to ISO 4,000 at f/5.6 recording to a
m4/3 sensor ... insufferable noise, limited DR, loss of
details , etc, etc. You can hardly make out details. Is
it a human being, or a wax figure ? Who can tell ?

Click the second level magnifier when viewing the DL
and the images just go all to pieces :-(


(Download)


(Download)

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Dec 15, 2018 22:33:03   #
tomcat
 
User ID wrote:
`



Check out some fast lenses and big sensors, cuz this
is what happens to ISO 4,000 at f/5.6 recording to a
m4/3 sensor ... insufferable noise, limited DR, loss of
details , etc, etc. You can hardly make out details. Is
it a human being, or a wax figure ? Who can tell ?

Click the second level magnifier when viewing the DL
and the images just go all to pieces :-(


I can appreciate what you are trying to show. Is this m4/3 sensor from Olympus? However, note that to me, an ISO of only 4,000 is like shooting in bright sunshine. I am in a gym at ISO values of 18,000 to 25,600 so I ask you to do me a favor and take a shot in low light where the ISO is 25,600 and then let me see how the sensor performs. I would appreciate the favor because one day, I may need the weight reductions. Thanks!

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Dec 15, 2018 23:17:56   #
TriX (a regular here)
 
User ID wrote:
`



Check out some fast lenses and big sensors, cuz this
is what happens to ISO 4,000 at f/5.6 recording to a
m4/3 sensor ... insufferable noise, limited DR, loss of
details , etc, etc. You can hardly make out details. Is
it a human being, or a wax figure ? Who can tell ?

Click the second level magnifier when viewing the DL
and the images just go all to pieces :-(


Nice. Now let’s see it at ISO 16,000 and 1/160 on the same sensor. Better yet, ISO 12,800, 1/500 and f2 (or 1/250 a f2.8) because that’s the typical indoor, low light, subject in action conditions I mean when I say high ISO, low light, and I recommend large sensors and fast lenses

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Dec 15, 2018 23:36:58   #
User ID (a regular here)
 
tomcat wrote:

I can appreciate what you are trying to show. Is this m4/3
sensor from Olympus? However, note that to me, an ISO of
only 4,000 is like shooting in bright sunshine. I am in a gym
at ISO values of 18,000 to 25,600 so I ask you to do me a
favor and take a shot in low light where the ISO is 25,600
and then let me see how the sensor performs. I would a
ppreciate the favor because one day, I may need the weight
reductions. Thanks!


The ISO 4000 image was from Lumix GM5, approx 2012 tech.
But for just this once "your wish is my command" ... so here
is ISO 12800 from a Lumix GX7 ... also approx 2012 tech but
thaz what I have with me. I'm online in bar and it's Saturday
night, so a fine opportunity for a 12800 test shot in shiddy
lighting. Don't ask me about the noise settings in the menus
as I'm a set it and forget type, menu-wise. I assume I prolly
maxed the high ISO clean up, since I shoot in shiddy light all
the time.

So these are basically SOOC resized for the forum. I also set
my "picture style" for muted color & contrast as my personal
defaults, to catch as much data as possible, thus you're also
seeing a very routine color & contrast touch up, required for
ALL my images to appear presentable.

The GX7 is three models behind current, which would be the
GX9 but I don't have one of those. Anywho, this is a case of
"dance with who brung ya". The GX7 was in the car tonight.

Enjoy the noise :-)


(Download)


(Download)

| Reply
Dec 15, 2018 23:47:55   #
tomcat
 
User ID wrote:
The ISO 4000 image was from Lumix GM5, approx 2012 tech.
But for just this once "your wish is my command" ... so here
is ISO 12800 from a Lumix GX7 ... also approx 2012 tech but
thaz what I have with me. I'm online in bar and it's Saturday
night, so a fine opportunity for a 12800 test shot in shiddy
lighting. Don't ask me about the noise settings in the menus
as I'm a set it and forget type, menu-wise. I assume I prolly
maxed the high ISO clean up, since I shoot in shiddy light all
the time.

So these are basically SOOC resized for the forum. I also set
my "picture style" for muted color & contrast as my personal
defaults, to catch as much data as possible, thus you're also
seeing a very routine color & contrast touch up, required for
ALL my images to appear presentable.

The GX7 is three models behind current, which would be the
GX9 but I don't have one of those. Anywho, this is a case of
"dance with who brung ya". The GX7 was in the car tonight.

Enjoy the noise :-)
The ISO 4000 image was from Lumix GM5, approx 2012... (show quote)



Mercy!!

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Dec 15, 2018 23:50:16   #
jonjacobik
 
Time and Light bend for no man.

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Dec 16, 2018 00:20:44   #
TriX (a regular here)
 
User ID wrote:
The ISO 4000 image was from Lumix GM5, approx 2012 tech.
But for just this once "your wish is my command" ... so here
is ISO 12800 from a Lumix GX7 ... also approx 2012 tech but
thaz what I have with me. I'm online in bar and it's Saturday
night, so a fine opportunity for a 12800 test shot in shiddy
lighting. Don't ask me about the noise settings in the menus
as I'm a set it and forget type, menu-wise. I assume I prolly
maxed the high ISO clean up, since I shoot in shiddy light all
the time.

So these are basically SOOC resized for the forum. I also set
my "picture style" for muted color & contrast as my personal
defaults, to catch as much data as possible, thus you're also
seeing a very routine color & contrast touch up, required for
ALL my images to appear presentable.

The GX7 is three models behind current, which would be the
GX9 but I don't have one of those. Anywho, this is a case of
"dance with who brung ya". The GX7 was in the car tonight.

Enjoy the noise :-)
The ISO 4000 image was from Lumix GM5, approx 2012... (show quote)


Well, in fairness, these are not the conditions that M43 was designed for and no amount PP is going to make this both noise - free and sharp. This is where you need that big sensor and fast lens to deliver a sharp, low noise shot.

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