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Low light performance in crop sensor body
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Nov 30, 2018 09:20:13   #
Bison Bud
 
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, the use of a tripod, and that we've discussed many times the advantages of a "Full Frame" sensor when it comes to overall low light performance, I am pretty much stuck in a crop sensor world for my photography hobby. This is primarily because of the price differences, but it is also due to the overall, physical size of the FF, DSLR's that I have had the pleasure to handle personally, with say the Canon 6D being about as big as I would ever care to go. While neither of my DLSR's are noted for their low light performance, I do okay with my Pentax K3 and/or my backup Canon T1i. However, low light performance has always been a big disappointment for me with either camera. While the K3 has a much higher ISO range than the T1i, it also appears to bring in more noise at comparable ISO settings and frankly, neither is really acceptable to me above say ISO 1600. I guess going higher with the ISO is better than not getting a shot, but even after extensive efforts in post processing, the noise levels are bothersome to me and I have to wonder if there isn't a crop sensor DLSR or Mirrorless body out there that could be a real improvement in overall low light performance without having to move up to a FF sensor.

Therefore, I am interested in discussion on which crop sensor body might have the best overall low light performance (not just how high I can set the ISO, but more about the results when I do use a high setting). I'd also be interested in what I should be looking for as I research this area of performance in today's offerings, as well as any other less equipment related tips you might be willing to share. Before you ask, I am on a fixed income and my photography budget is a lot lower than I like it to be. Therefore my personal, yet optomistic, budget would have to be under $1000.00 and I would prefer to find something used and save every dollar I possibly can. I'd be very willing to do without things like GPS and WiFi as long as there is real improvement in the low light performance. Thanks and good shooting to all.

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Nov 30, 2018 09:24:31   #
Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana
 
I am very pleased with the performance of my D500 in low light.

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Nov 30, 2018 09:24:46   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
I don't know how much help these links will be because they cover low light camera - period. You'll have to look for crop cameras.

https://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/best-low-light-camera/
http://www.tufitech.com/cameras/best-camera-for-night-photography/
https://www.adorama.com/alc/404/article/17-best-cameras-digital-low-light-photography-tested-and-compared

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Nov 30, 2018 09:39:29   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Bison Bud wrote:
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, the use of a tripod, and that we've discussed many times the advantages of a "Full Frame" sensor when it comes to overall low light performance, I am pretty much stuck in a crop sensor world for my photography hobby. This is primarily because of the price differences, but it is also due to the overall, physical size of the FF, DSLR's that I have had the pleasure to handle personally, with say the Canon 6D being about as big as I would ever care to go. While neither of my DLSR's are noted for their low light performance, I do okay with my Pentax K3 and/or my backup Canon T1i. However, low light performance has always been a big disappointment for me with either camera. While the K3 has a much higher ISO range than the T1i, it also appears to bring in more noise at comparable ISO settings and frankly, neither is really acceptable to me above say ISO 1600. I guess going higher with the ISO is better than not getting a shot, but even after extensive efforts in post processing, the noise levels are bothersome to me and I have to wonder if there isn't a crop sensor DLSR or Mirrorless body out there that could be a real improvement in overall low light performance without having to move up to a FF sensor.

Therefore, I am interested in discussion on which crop sensor body might have the best overall low light performance (not just how high I can set the ISO, but more about the results when I do use a high setting). I'd also be interested in what I should be looking for as I research this area of performance in today's offerings, as well as any other less equipment related tips you might be willing to share. Before you ask, I am on a fixed income and my photography budget is a lot lower than I like it to be. Therefore my personal, yet optomistic, budget would have to be under $1000.00 and I would prefer to find something used and save every dollar I possibly can. I'd be very willing to do without things like GPS and WiFi as long as there is real improvement in the low light performance. Thanks and good shooting to all.
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, ... (show quote)


Sony's have a proprietary mode for low noise where it takes 6 exposures in very rapid succession and combines them in camera for lower noise ( JPEG only) - It works WELL ! There are many other proprietary things that Sony's can do also

..

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Nov 30, 2018 09:40:51   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Rab-Eye wrote:
I am very pleased with the performance of my D500 in low light.


Not in budget !

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Nov 30, 2018 10:02:50   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
A new Fuji XE-3 with their excellent 18-55mm lens can be had for $1,099 or $1,049 with the 23mm lens from multiple sources such as Adorama or B&H. Besides being a very well regarded camera, it has excellent high ISO / low light capability for a crop camera.

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Nov 30, 2018 10:14:04   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bison Bud wrote:
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, the use of a tripod, and that we've discussed many times the advantages of a "Full Frame" sensor when it comes to overall low light performance, I am pretty much stuck in a crop sensor world for my photography hobby. This is primarily because of the price differences, but it is also due to the overall, physical size of the FF, DSLR's that I have had the pleasure to handle personally, with say the Canon 6D being about as big as I would ever care to go. While neither of my DLSR's are noted for their low light performance, I do okay with my Pentax K3 and/or my backup Canon T1i. However, low light performance has always been a big disappointment for me with either camera. While the K3 has a much higher ISO range than the T1i, it also appears to bring in more noise at comparable ISO settings and frankly, neither is really acceptable to me above say ISO 1600. I guess going higher with the ISO is better than not getting a shot, but even after extensive efforts in post processing, the noise levels are bothersome to me and I have to wonder if there isn't a crop sensor DLSR or Mirrorless body out there that could be a real improvement in overall low light performance without having to move up to a FF sensor.

Therefore, I am interested in discussion on which crop sensor body might have the best overall low light performance (not just how high I can set the ISO, but more about the results when I do use a high setting). I'd also be interested in what I should be looking for as I research this area of performance in today's offerings, as well as any other less equipment related tips you might be willing to share. Before you ask, I am on a fixed income and my photography budget is a lot lower than I like it to be. Therefore my personal, yet optomistic, budget would have to be under $1000.00 and I would prefer to find something used and save every dollar I possibly can. I'd be very willing to do without things like GPS and WiFi as long as there is real improvement in the low light performance. Thanks and good shooting to all.
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, ... (show quote)


There is no real substitute for light. That said, various schemes can help.

>>> VR/VC/IS/OIS/IBIS/ILIS — all "anti camera shake" technologies — help if you are photographing still or slow moving subjects. They let you use much slower shutter speeds without camera shake. Micro 4/3 cameras from Olympus and Panasonic, and compatible lenses, offer the most anti-shake (5.5 to 6.5 stops!). But even the worst of the anti-shake schemes is good for AT LEAST 2.5 stops of improvement.

>>> Using FAST prime lenses can help a great deal, provided they're good ones. Read test reports and buy the ones that can be used wide open to one stop down with great results.

>>> Using a RECENT camera with a relatively low MP count sensor will yield the cleanest possible images for a given format. That's one reason Nikon kept the D500 at 20MP. It's also the reason Panasonic used a 10MP sensor in the GH5s, which is a filmmaker's version of the 20MP GH5. You won't get huge blow-ups or close crops from a low MP sensor, but what you do get will be as clean as possible, because the sensels* with larger surface area suck in more photons. (*sensor elements, the output from which is digitized, de-mosaiced, matrixed, and processed to form numerical pixels)

As a movie producer friend once told me, "If the light is low enough that the scene looks poorly lit, you really do need to add light." However, I don't think he was talking about photographing sports or other fast action in dim light, where you have to work with what's there! For that, you really do need the cleanest sensor you can find. In the APS-C/DX class, that's probably the Nikon D500. In full frame, it's the Nikon D5 or Sony A9.

You may wish to visit dxomark.com and read sensor test reports. They can be helpful, but many other factors go into camera choice.

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Nov 30, 2018 10:14:32   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Bison Bud wrote:
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, the use of a tripod, and that we've discussed many times the advantages of a "Full Frame" sensor when it comes to overall low light performance, I am pretty much stuck in a crop sensor world for my photography hobby. This is primarily because of the price differences, but it is also due to the overall, physical size of the FF, DSLR's that I have had the pleasure to handle personally, with say the Canon 6D being about as big as I would ever care to go. While neither of my DLSR's are noted for their low light performance, I do okay with my Pentax K3 and/or my backup Canon T1i. However, low light performance has always been a big disappointment for me with either camera. While the K3 has a much higher ISO range than the T1i, it also appears to bring in more noise at comparable ISO settings and frankly, neither is really acceptable to me above say ISO 1600. I guess going higher with the ISO is better than not getting a shot, but even after extensive efforts in post processing, the noise levels are bothersome to me and I have to wonder if there isn't a crop sensor DLSR or Mirrorless body out there that could be a real improvement in overall low light performance without having to move up to a FF sensor.

Therefore, I am interested in discussion on which crop sensor body might have the best overall low light performance (not just how high I can set the ISO, but more about the results when I do use a high setting). I'd also be interested in what I should be looking for as I research this area of performance in today's offerings, as well as any other less equipment related tips you might be willing to share. Before you ask, I am on a fixed income and my photography budget is a lot lower than I like it to be. Therefore my personal, yet optomistic, budget would have to be under $1000.00 and I would prefer to find something used and save every dollar I possibly can. I'd be very willing to do without things like GPS and WiFi as long as there is real improvement in the low light performance. Thanks and good shooting to all.
While I understand the importance of a fast lens, ... (show quote)

EOS 80D or Nikon D500

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Nov 30, 2018 10:41:44   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
EOS 80D or Nikon D500


Can you tell me if the 80D and the 77D have the same sensors?

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Nov 30, 2018 10:56:59   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
In APS-C the top performers in low light seem to be the Sony Alpha a6300 and the Canon 80D. The 80D has AF to -3 EV. Shoot RAW and then post process.

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Nov 30, 2018 11:28:58   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Weddingguy wrote:
Can you tell me if the 80D and the 77D have the same sensors?

The have the same size sensor, different processors. Use the URL links in this timeline graphic for specifications of all EOS DSLRs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_EOS_digital_cameras

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Nov 30, 2018 11:40:02   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
Thanks . . . would the difference in processors affect the low light noise?

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Nov 30, 2018 11:40:41   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
The Nikon D7500 has the exact same sensor are the much more expensive D500 mentioned here a few times. A D7500, especially a refurb, should be within your budget.

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Nov 30, 2018 11:58:14   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Keep in mind that there are two parts to low light performance. The ability to capture the light and the ability to focus on the subject.

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Nov 30, 2018 12:00:48   #
hangman45 Loc: Hueytown Alabama
 
The K-3 will do fine up to 3200 with proper noise reduction took me a while after the K-5 to figure out best way to post process and thought I had made a mistake upgrading to K-3 but after a while I figured out it just seemed to have more noise but it was a noise that was easily removed.

This was shot at ISO8000
IMGP4895-1 by Tim Crumly, on Flickr

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