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Nov 3, 2018 11:31:56   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
burkphoto wrote:
...


Not sure I would choose Consumer reports for computer advice (they have certainly picked some terrible products such as autos in the past), but since Apple has announced that they will start producing their own CPUs and move away from Intel processors, running Windows on a Mac (which is OK for occasional use, but not very cost effective if it’s your regular OS) may or may not continue to be an option, depending on the instruction set implemented on their new processor.

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Nov 3, 2018 12:02:27   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
wteffey wrote:
Reread the original post. A beginner on a budget.


I read it when he posted it. He is already memory limited in his processing and moving from 4 to 8GB DRAM will help some, but it will be limiting now, and as aps and OSs grow in size (which they inevitably do), it will prove to be a bad investment, much like trying to run the aps on an I-3. Having read his budget constraints and bearing those in mind, I proposed a solution that was half the previous post and suggested used and last year’s model, possibly using an AMD CPU and taking advantage of upcoming Black Friday sales. I would have also suggested assembling his own machine, but again, after reading his post, he did not indicate that level of computer skills.

So, perhaps you should reread my original post (and find a computer tech better qualified to advise on image processing than the one that suggested that 8GB DRAM was more than enough).

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Nov 3, 2018 12:07:10   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
TriX wrote:
Not sure I would choose Consumer reports for computer advice (they have certainly picked some terrible products such as autos in the past), but since Apple has announced that they will start producing their own CPUs and move away from Intel processors, running Windows on a Mac (which is OK for occasional use, but not very cost effective if it’s your regular OS) may or may not continue to be an option, depending on the instruction set implemented on their new processor.


To my knowledge, Apple has not announced anything about using non-Intel processors in Macs. The Mac’s universal compatibility is a strong selling point with educational institutions, who often provide dual-boot Macs in computer labs, classrooms, and libraries.

Their latest SOC in the new iPad Pro is almost as fast as their slowest Mac. So theoretically it’s possible. But for now, switching is viewed by most in the Mac world as a Wintel-generated rumor — FUD. Consider the source: Bloomberg.

I ran Windows and Mac OS on a MacBook Pro for four years, with no issues. You just need lots of system resources.

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Nov 3, 2018 12:54:02   #
cascoly Loc: seattle
 
dont overthink or overbuy - apples are overpriced for what they supply - stay w PC:

my desktop is a Dell w 12Gb ram and does fine - I process hundreds of images a week, often in batches thru LR & PS

you dont need to spend thousands -- my travel laptop is 8GB ASUS 2017 ($700 2 ys ago now about $250) and is great for work on the road - much of what you need to do doesnt require large amts of RAM - renaming, sorting images, captioning & doing basic post processing; i even run landscapepro and HDR processing on this machine

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Nov 3, 2018 13:37:11   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
burkphoto wrote:
To my knowledge, Apple has not announced anything about using non-Intel processors in Macs. The Mac’s universal compatibility is a strong selling point with educational institutions, who often provide dual-boot Macs in computer labs, classrooms, and libraries.

Their latest SOC in the new iPad Pro is almost as fast as their slowest Mac. So theoretically it’s possible. But for now, switching is viewed by most in the Mac world as a Wintel-generated rumor — FUD. Consider the source: Bloomberg.

I ran Windows and Mac OS on a MacBook Pro for four years, with no issues. You just need lots of system resources.
To my knowledge, Apple has not announced anything ... (show quote)


Well, some educational institutions. The CIO for the public school system where my son teaches graphic design and photography, has mandated a move to PCs, citing the lower cost and more universal use in industry (to the great consternation of my son, who prefers a Mac)

Actually, the information came from an HPC (high performance computing) weekly journal, which since it reports on the highest technology in computing today, has always proven to accurate, but I’ll find the article and attribution, and post a link... (wouldn’t be the first CPU switch for Apple, they ran Motorola 68K processors in the late 80s /early 90s before the dominance of the PC market by Intel)

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Nov 3, 2018 13:50:08   #
scubadoc Loc: Sarasota, FL
 
TriX wrote:
Well, some educational institutions. The CIO for the public school system where my son teaches graphic design and photography, has mandated a move to PCs, citing the lower cost and more universal use in industry (to the great consternation of my son, who prefers a Mac)

Actually, the information came from an HPC (high performance computing) weekly journal, which since it reports on the highest technology in computing today, has always proven to accurate, but I’ll find the article and attribution, and post a link... (wouldn’t be the first CPU switch for Apple, they ran Motorola 68K processors in the late 80s /early 90s before the dominance of the PC market by Intel)
Well, some educational institutions. The CIO for t... (show quote)


Budget considerations always seem to trump ease of use and reliability when it comes to bulk purchases for public enterprises. What most CIOs don’t take into consideration is the cost of IT support following initial purchase. Maybe it is “job security” but by and large Apple devices are cheaper to maintain following the initial purchase cost.

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Nov 3, 2018 13:59:51   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
Gene51 wrote:
You are correct, 4 gb is not enough ram.
Do not get less than 16GB.

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Nov 3, 2018 14:16:00   #
Selene03
 
Everyone will tell you to get the computer they are using. If you have friends or kids who use computers, I would recommend getting whatever kind of computer (PC or Mac--brand on Pc of only minor significance) so that they can help you with upgrades, setting it up, etc. unless you are computer savy. I mostly use windows machines (most recently Dell xps laptops and desktop) because I have been able to get a lot of processing power for $2000.00 or less. I have a 13" macbook pro, but which is not as powerful as the Dells but cost about more than my small xps laptop. For some, it doesn't matter that Apples are expensive because they are easy to use. I am not convinced by the ease of use argument because of the need to work around the Macbook limitations (limited hard drive space, limited connectiveity options, etc), but to each his own. Again, if you know others with the same machine, they can help! Whatever you get, I would recommend at least 16 gig ram and preferably some graphics memory too. Good portable harddrives are cheap, but you may not want to always be carrying one around with you.

Computers are like cameras: in some respects, ergonomics is the most important aspect of the equipment and different people find different things most comfortable.

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Nov 3, 2018 14:26:58   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
Whenever I need a new computer for post processing I go to my local computer store (here in Manchester CT, it's Kaplan Computers). I do not go to the big box store. At Kaplan I tell the sales people (who are all knowledgeable) what I need. They ask a few questions and recommend a line of machines to me. I bought my last two laptops this way. The people at Kaplan never stear me wrong and work within my budget. I am sure that you have a similar store near you with a staff that will just as helpful.

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Nov 3, 2018 15:20:52   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
JMCPHD wrote:
I am relatively new to digital photography and post processing. It is clear to me that my old laptop pc is not up to the task. The computer may hang up or take very long periods of time to download images from the camera, or do any post processing. I am now convinced I need a computer with much more RAM (currently 4 GB) and perhaps a better cpu. The restriction is that I am trying to get by on a limited budget. I would value suggestions and advice.


CPU is most likely a minor issue unless you are talking about a single-core Pentium 4 from the stone-age. You need more RAM, 16GB would be good, but even 8 or 12 might work better too. And just as important you most likely need a new Video Card with more VRAM and speed. How large is your HDD / how much free memory does it have? If you have a Windows PC, use at least Windows 7. Mac, I'm not up on but likely the same age limit. What PP are you trying or wanting to run?

I once had a HP laptop with 4GB running Windows Vista, it ran Ps CS6 slowly but OK. I upped the RAM to 6GB then 8GB with much better results. Today I use a Dell Tower with i7 4-core (8 thread) 3.4GHz, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Widows 10. Good luck!

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Nov 3, 2018 16:19:31   #
loren sanders Loc: Wisconsin
 
JMCPHD wrote:
I am relatively new to digital photography and post processing. It is clear to me that my old laptop pc is not up to the task. The computer may hang up or take very long periods of time to download images from the camera, or do any post processing. I am now convinced I need a computer with much more RAM (currently 4 GB) and perhaps a better cpu. The restriction I s that I am trying to get by on a limited budget. I would value suggestions and advice.


I've spent the last 20 years in IT/IS, and personally, I would NEVER buy any all-in-one unit (as some suggest), no matter the manufacturer. Take into consideration, that for someone like me, I work on my own equipment starting with the initial build, and I do all my own upgrades and mods as well; but my distaste for "all-in-one" tech predates my working on PC's, and goes back to the first TV/VCR combo units released in the 1980's. I worked in electronics, sales & service in those days, and while I understood the appeal of such a unit to small companies wanting a fast portable video unit for meetings, such things were then and remain now - a complete pain in the arse to work on, and have many limitations over component systems.

IF - and it is a big one - you do not intend to ever work on your own machines, and don't mind seeking techs who are willing to do so (and without quietly upcharging you for working on an AiO), you may be content with one - but do be sure to do your homweork on what it can and can't do, and how it can and can't be upgraded.

My original training is in graphic arts, and while Macs once ruled the roost in the computer graphic industry, it isn't really true any longer, and you can get MUCH more bang for your buck with PC's, as well as the variance of apps available, and they are solid workhorses, and you can get (or build) some pretty solid machines that are "out of date" but cost loads less than the current tech of the week does.

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Nov 3, 2018 17:11:17   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
scubadoc wrote:
Budget considerations always seem to trump ease of use and reliability when it comes to bulk purchases for public enterprises. What most CIOs don’t take into consideration is the cost of IT support following initial purchase. Maybe it is “job security” but by and large Apple devices are cheaper to maintain following the initial purchase cost.


Yeah, even IBM knows that! They have installed over 134,000 Macs (out of about 400,000 computers) and saved enough on support and added productivity to pay for the price difference.

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Nov 3, 2018 17:32:18   #
adamsg Loc: Chubbuck, ID
 
I have been a Mac user for the last 23 years. I am on my third I-Mac, a factory refurb from Apple, with 8 gigs of DRAM, a 21" monitor and the full suite of programs. It was running on Mountain Lion until about five months ago, when I updated to High Sierra. It has more than enough capacity for all my work, including post-processing, is fast on up- or downloads and cost me $1200. I do back it up with a Seagate 3 tb external hard drive, although I have never needed to use it to replace any lost data on the Mac's hard drive. It has been and is thoroughly reliable and I highly recommend something on this order for you.

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Nov 3, 2018 17:53:40   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
This is what I did three years ago and it is still working fine for Photoshop and editing 4K videos in Premiere Pro. I bought the used HPZ200 desktop because of it's i7 intel processor, 2.9 GHz processing speed and separate video card with 2GB video ram, 1TB 7800 rpm hard drive and the Windows 10 64 bit pro OS. I removed the four 2GB RAM cards and installed two new 8GB matching RAM cards for a total of 16GB RAM. I'm using a ten year old Viewsonic 20" VA2012wb lcd monitor with 1680x1050 resolution. I researched the specs I wanted and found the used system that suit my needs, from a top rated seller on ebay, for about 1/3 the price of a comparable new system. Paypal ensured it was just as advertised (I read the specs and condition advertised carefully) or my money and postage would have been refunded.
JMCPHD wrote:
I am relatively new to digital photography and post processing. It is clear to me that my old laptop pc is not up to the task. The computer may hang up or take very long periods of time to download images from the camera, or do any post processing. I am now convinced I need a computer with much more RAM (currently 4 GB) and perhaps a better cpu. The restriction I s that I am trying to get by on a limited budget. I would value suggestions and advice.


(Download)

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Nov 3, 2018 18:30:56   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
burkphoto wrote:
Yeah, even IBM knows that! They have installed over 134,000 Macs (out of about 400,000 computers) and saved enough on support and added productivity to pay for the price difference.


Before you buy that entire story, you might want to read the detailed post on another recent Apple/PC thread written by an unbiased IBM support engineer of long duration - I’ll be glad to post the link. Everyone that’s an Apple fan can produce an anecdotal story why paying 50% more for identical or often inferior performance is worth it, but it doesn’t change the facts that about 4/5ths of major industries are running PCs. These companies including major IT companies such as Oracle, have for the most part, well informed CIOs who compare both purchase price and support costs, and yet, the vast majority standardize on PCs - why do you think that is?

Of course the Apple user’s arguement is that they are more reliable, but they ignore the fact that the memory, CPUs, HDs, etc. are exactly the same components in a PC (other than the fact that they may be a generation out-of-date). When I see an Apple user’s need to constantly defend and endorse their products, it often reminds me of Festinger’s theory of cognitive dissonance. If you pay 50% more for something with the same or worse performance, then there must be a reason, right? To admit otherwise, would be to admit that the person had acted unwisely, thus causing dissonance and the attendant need to rationalize it in some way.

Bill, this is one of those cases where we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think Apple makes fine platforms and some (but not all) of their aps are good. Their support is prompt and English-speaking, even if they can’t solve the problem, and for a computer neophyte, they are probably a good choice, in the same way and for the same reason they are frustrating for a sophisticated user. But while the styling and packaging is nice, they are overpriced for equivalent performance, typically behind the power curve of technology by a generation, a nightmare to work on and often difficult or impossible to upgrade. To each his own...

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