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Did Nikon lay another egg?
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Sep 2, 2018 05:28:00   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
burkphoto wrote:
MANY mirrorless cameras have sensor cleaning. It works quite well on them, too. In three years, I haven't had to clean my Lumix GH4 sensor once! That's despite numerous lens changes in blowing wind. When I used Canons and Nikons, I was reaching for the bottle of Eclipse and a Sensor Swab several times a year.

The reason? That flippy-floppy thing in the dSLR creates metal shavings, throws lubricants, and knocks bits of foam mirror dampener strips off all the time. The mirror creates quite a windstorm in the camera body, so that crap lands on the sensor during exposure. The vibrator-based cleaning device won't deal with sticky foam or a mixture of lube with metal shavings. It really only works for run-of-the-mill dust that floats in when you change a lens.
MANY mirrorless cameras have sensor cleaning. It w... (show quote)


Interesting in that I have never had those problems with my 7D. But I guess it could happen.

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Sep 2, 2018 05:35:10   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Dropping the self cleaning function may or may not be that big a deal but the camera will still function as designed. Besides, there are cars with only three wheels. But since you didn't mean three wheeled cars, a four wheel car with only three wheels for the most part, isn't going anywhere although there are exception.
I've never owned or even used a D3400 and I'm sure I could look this up but, is cleaning the sensor a menu option?
I know it is simpler and more cost effective to make an image sensor assembly that does not vibrate. Could it be that Nikon's research people simply came to the conclusion it wasn't really necessary to have a self cleaning sensor on certain lower end models?!
I wouldn't go that far. Dropping the self cleaning... (show quote)

My experience with a 2005 Rebel back in the day as well as family members with D70s and D3100s are the inexperienced digital photographers have no conception of the importance of body caps, lens caps, and careful and quick changes of lenses. Sensor dust is unique to DSLR photography. That's why the technology was created and then dispersed to every model in every brand. When it becomes part of the standard design, then it becomes an effort to not include, rather than cheaper to skip. As mentioned in the earlier comment, this helps to create clear differentiation between the entry level and high grade bodies. Is it a crisis if missing? No. If I had to choose / recommend between two cameras, with and without, it would impact my decision. Surely that is what Nikon is seeking to achieve.

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Sep 2, 2018 05:49:17   #
Haydon
 
DaveO wrote:
LOL, thanks and I'll try not to be next. I would be so hurt.


I wish he'd sign me up next Dave :)

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Sep 2, 2018 05:51:50   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
Gene51 wrote:
Nothing of interest there . . . The interesting stuff is far above his level of comprehension, and found elsewhere - among the many he has chosen to ignore.


Wow.

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Sep 2, 2018 05:53:10   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Dropping the self cleaning function may or may not be that big a deal but the camera will still function as designed. Besides, there are cars with only three wheels. But since you didn't mean three wheeled cars, a four wheel car with only three wheels for the most part, isn't going anywhere although there are exception.
I've never owned or even used a D3400 and I'm sure I could look this up but, is cleaning the sensor a menu option?
I know it is simpler and more cost effective to make an image sensor assembly that does not vibrate. Could it be that Nikon's research people simply came to the conclusion it wasn't really necessary to have a self cleaning sensor on certain lower end models?!
I wouldn't go that far. Dropping the self cleaning... (show quote)


It appears that ALL current Canon Rebels have the dust delete feature. This includes the SL2 and the SL1 models.
Interesting it would be removed from any DSLR.

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Sep 2, 2018 06:16:00   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
The D3400'S replacement, the D3500 has been announced and from what I've read, the only real difference between the two are size and cost. The new camera is smaller than the old one and it costs considerably less, about $150. Apparently Nikon is looking to attract an audience with relatively small hands.
I guess the bottom line is, if you want better quality images than most cell phones are capable of and don't want a big expensive DSLR, maybe the D3500 is for you.
And no, it does not have a self cleaning image sensor, that would reduce the number of images
it can take per charge, a tradeoff Nikon can live with.
The D3400'S replacement, the D3500 has been announ... (show quote)


The trend in the industry is toward smaller and lighter equipment. With this in mind I believe Nikon laid a golden egg.

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Sep 2, 2018 07:36:28   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
The D3500 is entry level. Cheap is probably more important than features that are not obviously useful to the targeted customer. Once in the Nikon family (or whatever brand) they need reasons to upgrade. The more features you put in the 'first' camera, the longer time it takes for the need of a second one.

We all need a bag full of camera to avoid gas pains. Nikon is just being considerate.

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Sep 2, 2018 08:21:32   #
Soul Dr. Loc: Beautiful Shenandoah Valley
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I guess that he put everyone on his ignore list so that there is no response to his post.


Yep, you are in the minority if you are not on his ignore list.

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Sep 2, 2018 08:31:02   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Do not worry very much about the self cleaning sensor in Nikon cameras.
To me it is totally useless.

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Sep 2, 2018 09:19:40   #
Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.
 
IDguy wrote:
I never heard an explanation of why they dropped shake cleaning on the D3400. I doubt it has to do with battery life.

We can be sure they did customer research before doing so. And continuing to leave it out suggests they are happy with the decision.

My guess is that their research shows it doesn’t do much. And the target market for this line isn’t likely to look for it or care if it is missing.

I understand no Mirrorless cameras have it.


I'm afraid you understand wrong. I don't know about other camera brands or models, but my mirrorless Olympus OM-D E-M1 definitely has the dust-reduction function, automatically when the camera is turned on, at will by going through the menu.

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Sep 2, 2018 09:33:04   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Not sure what to make of the "self cleaning sensor shakers"....when I got my first Sony with it I thought "cool". At some point, turned it off (not in-body stabilization, just the sensor cleaner shake process), and after a few months I looked hard at the sensor with a loupe, nothing that a bulb blower couldn't clear (actually hardly anything). By this time I had several more Sony bodies, and I turned them off too. Now I'm doing the same with my Nikon bodies. So far I'm simply not missing that function.... and each photog's situation and shooting environment is going to be different than mine, so their mileage may vary.

I don't do that many lens changes outside, unless I'm doing a lot of long telephoto mixed with other needs, so if I go out with a wide-to-tele zoom, not much need to change, but if I do, I do it in the car, or out of the elements, in a plastic garbage bag if need be. In my home, A/C with HEPA filters keeps the dust and allergens to a minimum, and caps keep the mounts clean, so I'm not seeing much in the way of dust/dirt on my sensors. I take at least one of my DSLR cameras out each day and shoot something, even if just walkabout in the yard or adjoining woods, so they get used and cycled quite often.

Folks that change lens a lot, shoot in and handle their gear in "dirty" environments would have different issues, and would probably keep it on all the time, and I would too. In the olden times, one learned to care for and clean their gear inside and out, or take it to someone reliable who could..... harder to find those knowledgeable and careful folks now, so my ability to keep my gear clean works for me.

I guess bottom line "for me" is that it is a nice feature to have, but if it wasn't there, I'd hardly care. Did often wonder if all the shaking/vibration is hard on the internal mechanisms - does it induce wear and tear on it's own?? Could that be affecting the MTBF for the different models?? That is one question I'd like to see the manufacturers answer. Anyway, that is my take on this subject - and I make no recommendations to others, except to do your best to keep it clean!

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Sep 2, 2018 10:14:55   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Interesting in that I have never had those problems with my 7D. But I guess it could happen.


In the school portrait business (400-500 exposures daily), it did.

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Sep 2, 2018 10:21:49   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
IDguy wrote:
I never heard an explanation of why they dropped shake cleaning on the D3400. I doubt it has to do with battery life.
I understand no Mirrorless cameras have it.


Yes the Fuji does. Both with turn on and turn off. But the mirrorless by and large don't need it because they don't have a mirror slapping around in the box, spewing all sorts of stuff on the sensor.

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Sep 2, 2018 10:30:12   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
olemikey wrote:
Not sure what to make of the "self cleaning sensor shakers"....when I got my first Sony with it I thought "cool". At some point, turned it off (not in-body stabilization, just the sensor cleaner shake process), and after a few months I looked hard at the sensor with a loupe, nothing that a bulb blower couldn't clear (actually hardly anything). By this time I had several more Sony bodies, and I turned them off too. Now I'm doing the same with my Nikon bodies. So far I'm simply not missing that function.... and each photog's situation and shooting environment is going to be different than mine, so their mileage may vary.

I don't do that many lens changes outside, unless I'm doing a lot of long telephoto mixed with other needs, so if I go out with a wide-to-tele zoom, not much need to change, but if I do, I do it in the car, or out of the elements, in a plastic garbage bag if need be. In my home, A/C with HEPA filters keeps the dust and allergens to a minimum, and caps keep the mounts clean, so I'm not seeing much in the way of dust/dirt on my sensors. I take at least one of my DSLR cameras out each day and shoot something, even if just walkabout in the yard or adjoining woods, so they get used and cycled quite often.

Folks that change lens a lot, shoot in and handle their gear in "dirty" environments would have different issues, and would probably keep it on all the time, and I would too. In the olden times, one learned to care for and clean their gear inside and out, or take it to someone reliable who could..... harder to find those knowledgeable and careful folks now, so my ability to keep my gear clean works for me.

I guess bottom line "for me" is that it is a nice feature to have, but if it wasn't there, I'd hardly care. Did often wonder if all the shaking/vibration is hard on the internal mechanisms - does it induce wear and tear on it's own?? Could that be affecting the MTBF for the different models?? That is one question I'd like to see the manufacturers answer. Anyway, that is my take on this subject - and I make no recommendations to others, except to do your best to keep it clean!
Not sure what to make of the "self cleaning s... (show quote)


Try http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com and http://photosol.com

MTBF seems unrelated. Years ago, Canon’s EOS 20D was good for 60,000 to 75,000 exposures in our business. It had no sensor cleaner. Our 30D, 40D, and 50D bodies had the sensor cleaning feature, and were good for 115,000 to 140,000 clicks.

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Sep 2, 2018 11:42:04   #
Kuzano
 
burkphoto wrote:
This is in the category of, "Who cares?"

The D3300 was the peak of that line. It is very decent for what it is. The 3400 was a step down, and this just sounds like, "WHYYYYYY?"


I still believe a "refurb" D3300 is a better camera and better value, than the D3400 and now the D3500. Largely because of the removal of self cleaning sensor.

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