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DOF question
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Aug 14, 2018 11:49:03   #
swartfort Loc: Evansville, IN
 
This moth might not be the best specimen (he's pretty beat up), but I am looking at my images and when I was shooting from the top with a level focal plane, my focus seems good. When I got on my belly and shot across him, my DOF was SOOOO shallow. His head/antennae are tack sharp, but both wing tips are out of focus. That is a focal plane of less than 2 inches. This was shot with a D3400 with kit lens AF-P 18-55 3.5-5.6 DX VR. With this lens, is there a way to increase that depth of field? I suspect I needed to shoot at an increased aperture? Any suggestions are welcome.

f 5.6, 1/100, ISO 800, about 10 inches
f 5.6, 1/100, ISO 800, about 10 inches...
(Download)

f 5.6, 1/60, ISO 360 about 6 inches
f 5.6, 1/60, ISO 360 about 6 inches...
(Download)

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Aug 14, 2018 11:53:33   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
swartfort wrote:
I suspect I needed to shoot at an increased aperture? ... With this lens, is there a way to increase that depth of field?
A lot of what inexperienced photographers think of as guesswork is really just a matter of buckling down and learning how the camera works. For increased depth of field, your specific lens has maximum settings from f/22 to f/38, depending on focal length.

Here's a handy chart:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Do tests with non-moving subjects and compare your results on your computer until choosing an aperture setting becomes second nature.

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Aug 14, 2018 12:09:01   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
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Aug 14, 2018 12:12:32   #
Linary Loc: UK
 
swartfort wrote:
This moth might not be the best specimen (he's pretty beat up), but I am looking at my images and when I was shooting from the top with a level focal plane, my focus seems good. When I got on my belly and shot across him, my DOF was SOOOO shallow. His head/antennae are tack sharp, but both wing tips are out of focus. That is a focal plane of less than 2 inches. This was shot with a D3400 with kit lens AF-P 18-55 3.5-5.6 DX VR. With this lens, is there a way to increase that depth of field? I suspect I needed to shoot at an increased aperture? Any suggestions are welcome.
This moth might not be the best specimen (he's pre... (show quote)


I think you will find the minimum focussing distance of the 18-55mm lens to be in the order of 11 inches. (0.25 metres) from the focal plane.

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Aug 14, 2018 12:15:34   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Linary wrote:
I think you will find the minimum focussing distance of the 18-55mm lens to be in the order of 11 inches. (0.25 metres).
Good point! I was focusing (wink) solely on the f/5.6 choice

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Aug 14, 2018 12:23:19   #
SpyderJan Loc: New Smyrna Beach. FL
 
Depth of Field is always increased when using smaller Aperture openings. Try the same shot using maybe F11 or F16. You can use charts or the DOF ring on the lens to estimate your optimum focus, but trial and error may be the best learning tool. In your example, you are shooting at a shallow angle that may place the distance between head and tail beyond the DOF at your F5.6 setting. Practice Practice.

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Aug 14, 2018 12:30:38   #
ORpilot Loc: Prineville, Or
 
A little background information for you. The camera and lens are converting a 3-dimensional object into a 2-dimensional plain. Something has to give and haveing everything in focus is one of them. To illustrate how the aperture works: take a 3x5 card or piece of aluminum foil and using a toothpick or hat pin, poke a hole in it. Now hold that pin hole up to your eye and you will see that almost everything is in focus vs not looking through the pinhole. The smaller the pin hole the more that will be in focus. The same is true with aperture. Very little in focus at f1.4 and a lot in focus at f22. You don't get in focus for free. The higher the aperture (f22) there will be a loss of resolution due to another optics property known as circle of confusion. Plus the longer the lens 200mm vs 18mm you get less DOF at the same aperture. Photography is all about give and take. You don't get something for nothing. I hope this helps a little.

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Aug 14, 2018 12:31:36   #
swartfort Loc: Evansville, IN
 
[quote=Linda From Maine]A lot of what inexperienced photographers think of as guesswork is really just a matter of buckling down and learning how the camera works.

Thanks Linda,
Part of my "buckling down" is putting images here and looking for directions as to where to start with my practice. Is that not what the purpose is here? I would not consider my learning haphazard, but with practice comes questions....

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Aug 14, 2018 12:37:19   #
swartfort Loc: Evansville, IN
 
You don't get something for nothing. I hope this helps a little.[/quote]


It does, thank you so much

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Aug 14, 2018 12:44:16   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
swartfort wrote:
Thanks Linda, Part of my "buckling down" is putting images here and looking for directions as to where to start with my practice. Is that not what the purpose is here?
I apologize if I came across as critical. My experience on UHH is that threads originated by brand-new users usually contain opposing suggestions, some incorrect or misleading information, and much repetition (nobody reads what anyone else writes before adding their own two cents). What is often missing is stressing the importance of learning the basics in order to have a more solid foundation for "the next time."

If posting with specific questions is what is working for you, then again I apologize for implying you should be more methodical in your learning. I wish I could remember how exactly I learned the properties of aperture and shutter speed, and overall exposure, but the memories are not presently there among the detritus of meaningless long-term recollections

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Aug 15, 2018 06:25:31   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
The need for a very small aperture (high f-stop number) when doing macro or close-up photography means that you either need bright sunlight or a flash. Some people use a ring flash for macro - I had one and found it to be very heavy and not really much better than using a speedlight with a diffuser.

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Aug 15, 2018 07:39:16   #
rmm0605 Loc: Atlanta GA
 
There are a few ways to increase DOF. One, obviously, is to increase the f-stop to F11 or higher. Another is to take multiple pictures of the object, focusing slightly differently each time, then combining the images in what is called "focus stacking." Another is to use a tilt-shift lens, so you can tilt the focal plane slightly to bring the entire object into focus.

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Aug 15, 2018 08:21:10   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
BTW, that's a butterfly, not a moth. Most moths are nocturnal, butterflies are not. Also stopping down introduces "Diffusion", not "Circle of Confusion" which can rob sharpness.

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Aug 15, 2018 08:33:37   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
[quote=swartfort]
Linda From Maine wrote:
A lot of what inexperienced photographers think of as guesswork is really just a matter of buckling down and learning how the camera works.

Thanks Linda,
Part of my "buckling down" is putting images here and looking for directions as to where to start with my practice. Is that not what the purpose is here? I would not consider my learning haphazard, but with practice comes questions....


If you do not already own it get a copy of Brian Peterson’s book on Exposure. It is the absolute bible on exposure which includes DOF. Understanding the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and iso. will help you understand how to manipulate the Dof in all situations. Although the subject is very technical Brian does a great job breaking it down in non technical terms. It is an easy read and an invaluable resource for any photographer novice to pro.
For the images you posted yes you need to move your aperture down to 11 or lower (the higher numbers 11 14 are actually lower numbers because they are 1/11 1/14 somewhat confusing I know). At the same time to properly expose you need to change the iso and or shutter speed. You had a great idea here, with a few adjustments to your exposure triangle you will have a great shot. Good luck and keep shooting.

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Aug 15, 2018 10:31:33   #
rfmaude41 Loc: Lancaster, Texas (DFW area)
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
BTW, that's a butterfly, not a moth. Most moths are nocturnal, butterflies are not. Also stopping down introduces "Diffusion", not "Circle of Confusion" which can rob sharpness.


Not really "diffusion"; the proper term is diffraction.

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