Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
The Attic
Can you say media hypocrisy?
Page <<first <prev 7 of 7
Jul 29, 2018 11:04:18   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
papakatz45 wrote:
People who rob a bank and are caught are put into custody by the state. If there is no other relative available, their children are taken away from them and put into temporary care by the state. Their children are not allowed to stay with them. People who come to this country illegally are criminals and put into custody of some sort. Their children are not allowed to stay with them. What don't you understand about people breaking the law trying to enter this country illegally?


Did I deny what you say?

“Obviously we don’t send children to prison with their parents who have been convicted of breaking the law and sentenced according to a completed legal process.”

People who come to this country—Some Of Them—are here illegally, that is those who aren’t protected by national and international laws on asylum, but they aren’t criminals until they are judged so by the due process of law, that is a formal trial with the charges against them stated, the defense having the right to speak, to address that charges against them, and for society, though its legal processes before legal professionals, deciding and stating they are guilty of something.

THEN they are criminals.

For civil penalties, they pay about what you would pay for a jaywalking fine, which act you do nearly each and every day you are within urban areas.

Our government—shamefully, disgracefully, illegally, and d********gly—tears innocent babes literally from their mother’s breasts, and lose both the child and parent, intentionally, among this country and their home country—intending permanent orphanhood and the US financial responsibility that includes—and imposing severe psychic damage among such lies as ‘their parents abandoning them,’ or ‘their parents don’t love them anymore,’ then sometimes inflicts sexual perversions upon them for the enjoyment of the guards and whomever.

This is a d********g and shameful atrocity for which we all bear guilt.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 11:26:59   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
There is a fallacy in your statement, "Obviously we don’t send children to prison with their parents who have been convicted of breaking the law and sentenced according to a completed legal process.” We are not talking about people who have been convicted of a crime, we are talking about people who have been arrested, have been accused of breaking the law and are awaiting trial. People who have been arrested for committing a crime in this country and are in jail awaiting trial have not been convicted. If a married couple robs a bank then gets arrested, they are put in jail until their trial. They have not yet been convicted of any crime but their children are taken away from them. I*****l i*********n is not the fault of anyone within our government. It is the fault of the people who come here illegally ignoring the legal process for entry into our country. Do you not understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal entry?

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 11:46:43   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
papakatz45 wrote:
There is a fallacy in your statement, "Obviously we don’t send children to prison with their parents who have been convicted of breaking the law and sentenced according to a completed legal process.” We are not talking about people who have been convicted of a crime, we are talking about people who have been arrested, have been accused of breaking the law and are awaiting trial. People who have been arrested for committing a crime in this country and are in jail awaiting trial have not been convicted. If a married couple robs a bank then gets arrested, they are put in jail until their trial. They have not yet been convicted of any crime but their children are taken away from them. I*****l i*********n is not the fault of anyone within our government. It is the fault of the people who come here illegally ignoring the legal process for entry into our country. Do you not understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal entry?
There is a fallacy in your statement, "Obviou... (show quote)


“If a married couple robs a bank then gets arrested, they are put in jail until their trial. They have not yet been convicted of any crime but their children are taken away from them.”

This is incorrect. They are with their children while they are out on bail—unless they have been specifically evaluated as violent or a risk to run.

I*****l i*********n is not the fault of our government, but breaking up families of innocent (until proven guilty) parties is the policy of donald trump, the specific police of republican donald trump.

Many of these ‘i******s” are protected by national and international laws on asylum, and trump’s policy is an affront to democracy, to decency, to humanity and compassion, to rationality—to our national shame.

I think you do “not understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal entry.”

It’s time you understood.

Reply
 
 
Jul 29, 2018 12:04:09   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
Twardlow wrote:
“If a married couple robs a bank then gets arrested, they are put in jail until their trial. They have not yet been convicted of any crime but their children are taken away from them.”

This is incorrect. They are with their children while they are out on bail—unless they have been specifically evaluated as violent or a risk to run.

I*****l i*********n is not the fault of our government, but breaking up families of innocent (until proven guilty) parties is the policy of donald trump, the specific police of republican donald trump.

Many of these ‘i******s” are protected by national and international laws on asylum, and trump’s policy is an affront to democracy, to decency, to humanity and compassion, to rationality—to our national shame.

I think you do “not understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal entry.”

It’s time you understood.
“If a married couple robs a bank then gets arreste... (show quote)


You are correct if they can make bail but if they cannot make bail then they stay in jail and their children are taken away from them. People who try to enter this country illegally are not innocent. They have broken the law. But for a moment let's assume your position is valid. Do you believe people who come here illegally should be given the same opportunity as someone who comes here legally? We do have a process for legal immigration. Thousands of people immigrate to this country legally each year. And that is a great thing. But why should "i******s" be given the same opportunity? Why can't they follow the legal process? Please explain if you can. Should we have open borders and let anyone who desires come in our country do so without any checks? Yes, there is great tragedy in the world but I do not believe we should have an open-door policy to fix the evils in the world. The governments of the countries from where i******s come from have the responsibilities to take care of their citizens, not the USA.

I do understand perfectly. You want to save the world, but at what cost? Please answer if you can, but I am done now.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 12:12:26   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
papakatz45 wrote:
You are correct if they can make bail but if they cannot make bail then they stay in jail and their children are taken away from them. People who try to enter this country illegally are not innocent. They have broken the law. But for a moment lets assume your position if valid. Do you believe people who come here illegally should be given the same opportunity as someone who comes here legally? We do have a process for legal immigration. Thousands of people immigrate to this country legally each year. And that is a great thing. But why should "i******s" be given the same opportunity? Why can't they follow the legal process? Please explain if you can. Should we have open borders and let anyone who desires come in our country do so without any checks? Yes, there is great tragedy in the world but I do not believe we should have an open-door policy to fix the evils in the world. The governments of the countries from where i******s come from have the responsibilities to take care of their citizens, not the USA.

I do understand perfectly. You want to save the world, but at what cost? Please answer if you can, but I am done now.
You are correct if they can make bail but if they ... (show quote)




A correction. Approximately 1.5million legal immigrants come to this country yearly. The United States seems to be the prime destination for immigrants as we allow more than all other countrys combined.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 12:52:37   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
papakatz45 wrote:
You are correct if they can make bail but if they cannot make bail then they stay in jail and their children are taken away from them. People who try to enter this country illegally are not innocent. They have broken the law. But for a moment lets assume your position if valid. Do you believe people who come here illegally should be given the same opportunity as someone who comes here legally? We do have a process for legal immigration. Thousands of people immigrate to this country legally each year. And that is a great thing. But why should "i******s" be given the same opportunity? Why can't they follow the legal process? Please explain if you can. Should we have open borders and let anyone who desires come in our country do so without any checks? Yes, there is great tragedy in the world but I do not believe we should have an open-door policy to fix the evils in the world. The governments of the countries from where i******s come from have the responsibilities to take care of their citizens, not the USA.

I do understand perfectly. You want to save the world, but at what cost? Please answer if you can, but I am done now.
You are correct if they can make bail but if they ... (show quote)


Sorry, you don’t understand. Asylum is a legitimate condition, enforced by national and international law. As long as they seek asylum, they aren’t i******s. They. Are. Legal.

No one is advocating Open Borders. Asylum is a legal process.

And the simple fact is that we can’t keep people out. We have a test case: Drugs. The best estimates are that we stop approximately 10% of the drugs coming into this country. Ten Per Cent! We have agents on both sides of the borders, radar, military help—we can’t stop the drugs, never have stopped the drugs, have no prospect of Ever stopping the drugs!

We can’t build a system drugs can’t go over, under or around! Never have...never will. Reality speaks.

Cubans get here in open boats—sometimes not even boats!—over 90 miles of open water, in the face of radar and military surveillance—still they get here.

Remember Chuck Yeager, the first man to fly faster than sound?

“Stationed in the United Kingdom at RAF Leiston, Yeager flew P-51 Mustangs in combat with the 363d Fighter Squadron. He named his aircraft Glamorous Glen after his girlfriend, Glennis Faye Dickhouse, who became his wife in February 1945. Yeager had gained one victory before he was shot down over France in his first aircraft on March 5, 1944 during his eighth mission. He escaped to Spain on March 30 with the help of the Maquis (French Resistance) and returned to England on May 15, 1944. ((This from Wikipedia.))

Well, how did he escape. The Maquis walked him into Spain, and when they came to the N**i checkpoint at the border, they walked around it!

If the N**is couldn’t enforce thier borders in wartime—the N**is!—it simply can’t be done.


And, before you mention any wall, please read this:

“Drug smugglers trying to tap into the United States’ highly profitable market have developed all kinds of secretive routes to deliver their illicit goods. One tactic is to go underground.

At the U.S.-Mexico border, tunnels are a popular means of t***sporting illegal marijuana – a bulky drug whose distinctive odor makes it hard to get past drug-sniffing dogs and other security at border checkpoints and airports. Since 1990, more than 220 tunnels have been discovered there, including 60 in the area overseen by the U.S. Border Patrol’s San Diego office.”

https://www.voanews.com/a/tunnels-at-us-mexico-border-show-smugglers-deep-commitment/3869064.html

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 13:13:13   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
Twardlow wrote:
Sorry, you don’t understand. Asylum is a legitimate condition, enforced by national and international law. As long as they seek asylum, they aren’t i******s. They. Are. Legal.

No one is advocating Open Borders. Asylum is a legal process.

And the simple fact is that we can’t keep people out. We have a test case: Drugs. The best estimates are that we stop approximately 10% of the drugs coming into this country. Ten Per Cent! We have agents on both sides of the borders, radar, military help—we can’t stop the drugs, never have stopped the drugs, have no prospect of Ever stopping the drugs!

We can’t build a system drugs can’t go over, under or around! Never have...never will. Reality speaks.

Cubans get here in open boats—sometimes not even boats!—over 90 miles of open water, in the face of radar and military surveillance—still they get here.

Remember Chuck Yeager, the first man to fly faster than sound?

“Stationed in the United Kingdom at RAF Leiston, Yeager flew P-51 Mustangs in combat with the 363d Fighter Squadron. He named his aircraft Glamorous Glen after his girlfriend, Glennis Faye Dickhouse, who became his wife in February 1945. Yeager had gained one victory before he was shot down over France in his first aircraft on March 5, 1944 during his eighth mission. He escaped to Spain on March 30 with the help of the Maquis (French Resistance) and returned to England on May 15, 1944. ((This from Wikipedia.))

Well, how did he escape. The Maquis walked him into Spain, and when they came to the N**i checkpoint at the border, they walked around it!

If the N**is couldn’t enforce thier borders in wartime—the N**is!—it simply can’t be done.


And, before you mention any wall, please read this:

“Drug smugglers trying to tap into the United States’ highly profitable market have developed all kinds of secretive routes to deliver their illicit goods. One tactic is to go underground.

At the U.S.-Mexico border, tunnels are a popular means of t***sporting illegal marijuana – a bulky drug whose distinctive odor makes it hard to get past drug-sniffing dogs and other security at border checkpoints and airports. Since 1990, more than 220 tunnels have been discovered there, including 60 in the area overseen by the U.S. Border Patrol’s San Diego office.”

https://www.voanews.com/a/tunnels-at-us-mexico-border-show-smugglers-deep-commitment/3869064.html
Sorry, you don’t understand. Asylum is a legitima... (show quote)


So your response to all of this is if we can't stop shoplifting in its entirety then we should just let everyone shoplift without consequence.

Reply
 
 
Jul 29, 2018 13:35:59   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
papakatz45 wrote:
So your response to all of this is if we can't stop shoplifting in its entirety then we should just let everyone shoplift without consequence.


I am only stating reality as I understand it, and the futility of spend Billions on something that is useless.

Actually, on the drug issue, I think we should learn from prohibition, that legalization is the only answer.

The immigration problem will exist as long as the American economy is more robust than South American economies.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 14:17:45   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
Twardlow wrote:
I am only stating reality as I understand it, and the futility of spend Billions on something that is useless.

Actually, on the drug issue, I think we should learn from prohibition, that legalization is the only answer.

The immigration problem will exist as long as the American economy is more robust than South American economies.


Just a question, how far and what drugs are you talking about when you use the term "legalization"?

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 15:37:14   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
RRS wrote:
Just a question, how far and what drugs are you talking about when you use the term "legalization"?


I don’t use any drugs except alcohol, and I don’t understand the thrust of your question.

Do you think I propose legalization for my own use?

Sorry. Not so.

I don’t even smoke grass.

The price of drugs is inflated because they are illegal. If you could legally purchase them at Walmart (say) the profit would disappear.

There would be a human price to pay, but probably not much above what society pays now.

I would include any drug that can be abused.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 20:03:17   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
Twardlow wrote:
I don’t use any drugs except alcohol, and I don’t understand the thrust of your question.

Do you think I propose legalization for my own use?

Sorry. Not so.

I don’t even smoke grass.

The price of drugs is inflated because they are illegal. If you could legally purchase them at Walmart (say) the profit would disappear.

There would be a human price to pay, but probably not much above what society pays now.

I would include any drug that can be abused.


Thanks for the clarification, the Dutch tried that as they thought it would cut down on prostitution and theft but it didn't work too well for them. BTW, I too don't smoke grass either and it's legal in my state. Your right in your remark as to what price society pays today.

Reply
 
 
Jul 29, 2018 20:10:35   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
Twardlow wrote:
I am only stating reality as I understand it, and the futility of spend Billions on something that is useless.

Actually, on the drug issue, I think we should learn from prohibition, that legalization is the only answer.

The immigration problem will exist as long as the American economy is more robust than South American economies.


Maybe Trumps tariffs are a plan to run the standard of living down to the point we are no longer attractive to citizens of other countries. He may succeed.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 20:13:54   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
Twardlow wrote:
I don’t use any drugs except alcohol, and I don’t understand the thrust of your question.

Do you think I propose legalization for my own use?

Sorry. Not so.

I don’t even smoke grass.

The price of drugs is inflated because they are illegal. If you could legally purchase them at Walmart (say) the profit would disappear.

There would be a human price to pay, but probably not much above what society pays now.

I would include any drug that can be abused.


I have been in favor of that for years. If a business lost $100 a day to shoplifting, and for $300 a day they could prevent it, I doubt many would choose to do that.

Reply
Jul 29, 2018 23:59:45   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
thom w wrote:
I have been in favor of that for years. If a business lost $100 a day to shoplifting, and for $300 a day they could prevent it, I doubt many would choose to do that.


Good point...

Reply
Jul 30, 2018 15:09:43   #
Ka2azman Loc: Tucson, Az
 
DaveO wrote:
I don't want to belabor the point, but apparently you have a different interpretation of what in harms way normally implies to those of us who have served. I also stated that the normal military functions include many civilian type occupations and work hours, but I can't provide stats, only personal experience and that of the many that I have associated with.

On the other hand, the children of first responders, in my opinion, would have a greater propensity to feel the fear cited.

Best wishes to you. Dave.
I don't want to belabor the point, but apparently ... (show quote)


I was in the MC and in VN 67-68 including Tet offensive. I have been shot at, and mortared and in ambushes on the wrong side. Up to the point of pulling shrapnel from the back of my helmet! So I would say I do have a little knowledge of - in harms way.

Fact is only 1 in 10 in the military is on the front line. Most others are support. But does that mean just because you are not in an active combat zone that you are not in harms way? I was stationed in Cuba and it was considered a semi-hazard zone but yet they allowed civilians and dependents there. Not hostile enough.

What about Iran when they took over our embassy there. Friendly until the unfriendly took over.

B******i - Wasn't a war zone and it was a movie that set them off. Tell that to the dead American's relatives that they were not in harms way.

The people in the Twin Towers in NYC was not in harms way either!

Just because of a moment of time, does not make a forever non-harms way. It can happen at any second.

Hopefully you take this as just as an open dialog; and I wish you Best wishes too Dave!

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 7
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
The Attic
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.