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New Mirrorless Direction from Nikon and Conon
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Jul 27, 2018 14:50:12   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
MT Shooter wrote:
So you know more about Nikons upcoming adapter than Nikon does? Exactly WHERE does Nikon say that it will NOT drive AF-D lenses? Nikons release only states that an adapter will be available for "....compatibility with your existing Nikkor DSLR lenses." Such a statement means it will accept ALL F-Mount lenses, including even older manual focus lenses, as does the current FT1 adapter for the Nikon 1. Any adapter, from any manufacturer, will be limited to the adapted lens' functional compatibility, naturally.
So you know more about Nikons upcoming adapter tha... (show quote)


I haven't been able in a quick search to find the information I recall seeing. When I do I will post it.
In the mean time I find your attitude refreshingly out spoken.

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Jul 27, 2018 14:53:05   #
MT Shooter (a regular here)
 
Rich1939 wrote:
I haven't been able in a quick search to find the information I recall seeing. When I do I will post it.
In the mean time I find your attitude refreshingly out spoken.


Here is the actual quote from Nikons press release:

"Additionally, an F-Mount adapter is being developed that will enable the use of a wide variety of F-Mount NIKKOR lenses with the new camera."

Make of it what you will.

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Jul 27, 2018 15:06:01   #
Bill_de (a regular here)
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Not the body and the lens but rather the lens and the adapter. The motor must be in the adapter as the body won't have any mechanical coupling.


Right! I don't know what I was thinking.

--

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Jul 27, 2018 15:24:18   #
gwilliams6 (a regular here)
 
I am sure both Nikon and Canon will do their best to come up with good, if not great, first-time fullframe mirrorless camera systems. They have been shown the way by Sony, and can copy any non-patented technology to jump-start them from being years behind Sony, along with any new tech developed on their own. But the real answer of what their new systems can and can not do, won't be answered before Nikon's official announcement on August 23, and Canon's anticipated announcement during Photokina in late September. BTW Sony is also expected to introduce one or more new cameras at Photokina. So it is fun to speculate and discuss it all, but we will ALL have to wait to really know what "magic" has or has not been created. I personally am looking forward to great new mirrorless cameras from all the big three. Cheers

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Jul 27, 2018 15:25:06   #
NJose
 
Rich1939 wrote:
That's what GM and Ford said about Japanese cars

Good one Rich1939, LOL. Could start another thread on that topic.


Can we get back to what Canon's plans might be. Not much when I Goggle it. There camp is keep it pretty tight so far.

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Jul 27, 2018 15:36:04   #
gwilliams6 (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
Good one Rich1939, LOL. Could start another thread on that topic.


Can we get back to what Canon's plans might be. Not much when I Goggle it. There camp is keep it pretty tight so far.


From what I have read, Canon also, like Nikon plans to play in both the high-megapixel mirrorless arena (40-50 megapixels) as well as the 24-25 megapixel arena. Both Nikon and Canon know they need to target the 42 megapixel Sony A7RIII, as well as target the 24 megapixel A7III (presently the world's best selling FULLFRAME camera, mirrorless or DSLR, having taken that title away from the Nikon D850), as well as target the pro sports-centered 24 megapixel A9 with its exclusive fastest-reading front stacked sensor and 20 frames per second abilities . But right now it seems Nikon has gotten the jump on Canon which may be much further away from an actual release date on either of its fullframe mirrorless cameras. Canon is very comfortable and feels less pressure to hurry as their overall combined camera world sales are still tops, though their lead is shrinking. Canon may surprise us with more info by Photokina time, but clearly there have been no substantial leaks, or released promo videos like Nikon. Cheers

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Jul 27, 2018 16:00:51   #
NJose
 
What about IS??? Will we need to shutdown off the IS in the lens? How will it work with the adapter? Which IS will yield the better image stabilization?

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Jul 27, 2018 16:01:51   #
MT Shooter (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
Can we get back to what Canon's plans might be. Not much when I Goggle it. There camp is keep it pretty tight so far.


Very hard to say as Canon has made no "Official" noise about a full frame mirrorless. Even Canonrumors.com has a full posting about the "fiasco" that is the rumor stream concerning this possible new camera. They have even retracted previous comments about its pending announcement for 2018. All will just have to wait and see.

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Jul 27, 2018 16:04:24   #
SharpShooter
 
NJose wrote:
This week in a B&H email there was an article/ad about Nikon's new mirrolress DSLR coming soon (see link below). There are rumors about Canon also coming out with their own as well. That's great that they are finally getting into the game. I would expect that these two giant's will knock the socks of Sony with all of years of experience.

But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet), one that Nikon claims opens the door for groundbreaking optical opportunities. Now, bringing it home, that puts me in a bind, because I was looking to purchase the Canon 100-400 IS II L lens this year and a new camera in 2019 or early 2020. There is talk about an adapter, but who know how that will work out. My budget is limited and I hate to spend money into a dying line.

Your thoughts on continuing to invest in the current line of DSLR?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless?utm_medium=Email%201686209&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20180725&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless&encEmail=964B8F39F761D7DFF6FF726CA3679A786B3059AF55EC711E95DC83FAE9BD5BF9
This week in a B&H email there was an article/... (show quote)


This is just a guess but Nikon has needed a new mount since the age of electronic coupling.
Canon changed cold turkey with its eye to the future. It’s why they eventually took the #1 position from Nikon! Nikon has not been able to design AF f1.2 lenses for their old mount diameter.
So Canon can redesign a mount but doesn’t need to unless it’s the only way to implement ML.
SS

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Jul 27, 2018 16:39:07   #
gwilliams6 (a regular here)
 
Canon and Nikon both will have IBIS in their fullframe mirrorless cameras, that is a given. IBIS works with Lens stabilization to add even more image stabilization. Other mirrorless cameras from various makers ,equipped with IBIS, have been working together with stabilized lenses for awhile, not a problem, but a benefit. .

Canon is number one in overall total sales for many reasons, including huge consumer-level camera sales, but they have been resting on their laurels with drip, drip of half-baked releases that have chased many pros away, like myself after 40 years, and their sales lead is shrinking. As of right now Sony leads in FULLFRAME camera sales worldwide (mirrorless or DSLR) with combined sales of its A7, A7II, A7III, A7S, A7SII, A7RII, A7RIII and A9. And the A7III is the new world's number one selling fullframe camera, resting that title from the Nikon D850.

Canon needs a kick to get its act together. Canon is no longer the tech leader in photography. They could be again, but presently their corporate will has been lacking and lazy as they have led overall camera sales, while Canon corporate-wise (in their own public statements) has shifted its focus onto higher profit markets with their medical and other divisions and products. . . Their loyal camera fans still buy any mediocre release they make and heavily advertise, like the disappointing M50 which Canon is advertising heavily as a "miracle" camera, but that is not fooling reviewers and serious photographers/videographers. . Nikon's best DSLR is now better than Canon's best, and they are both trying to catch up to Sony's fullframe mirrorless leadership. Nikon is a smaller company so they have to get their fullframe mirrorless right, to survive, and I hope they nail it.

Canon and Sony have huge resources, but lately Sony has been doing a better job than Canon in using its huge resources to push the tech envelope in mirrorless. Lets see what Canon will do. Nikon seems poised to make a big splash here in fullframe mirrorless.

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Jul 28, 2018 05:42:18   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
This week in a B&H email there was an article/ad about Nikon's new mirrolress DSLR coming soon (see link below). There are rumors about Canon also coming out with their own as well. That's great that they are finally getting into the game. I would expect that these two giant's will knock the socks of Sony with all of years of experience.

But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet), one that Nikon claims opens the door for groundbreaking optical opportunities. Now, bringing it home, that puts me in a bind, because I was looking to purchase the Canon 100-400 IS II L lens this year and a new camera in 2019 or early 2020. There is talk about an adapter, but who know how that will work out. My budget is limited and I hate to spend money into a dying line.

Your thoughts on continuing to invest in the current line of DSLR?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless?utm_medium=Email%201686209&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20180725&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless&encEmail=964B8F39F761D7DFF6FF726CA3679A786B3059AF55EC711E95DC83FAE9BD5BF9
This week in a B&H email there was an article/... (show quote)


That is the beauty of the EF system. EF, EFs and M all work natively just fine. Mount EF on APSC Mount (EFs) and there is absolutely no loss of speed, features etc. of EFs or EF on an M camera and again no loss though both use an adapter. A 100-400mm L II will be the same size etc. no matter what. Take Sony as your example. Their comparable lenses to Canon are generally larger, heavier and definitely more expensive, not all but there is virtually no size or weight savings. Physics dictates the size. I would not sweat the Canon system as there is compatibility built in due to the all electronic mount from the beginning that is only being recently copied by others after seeing the brilliance of it and adaptability.
The APSC and then M lenses were able to be made smaller by using smaller apertures as max apertures. I would love to see effort to make IS and USM motors fit in smaller lenses with larger apertures as the housings for these features create the larger diameter and sometimes heavier lenses. Perhaps they will invent a lens that changes shape like the eye to focus rather than move it around in the barrel. IS is solved by having IBIS now that as it improves looks to replace lens IS as Olympus and others have already done. It just seems to not work as well with long teles as I have heard as IS in the lens. Again, technology marches on and that can be overcome.
Bottom line your new EF lenses will be just fine from what I see as they were designed with all this in mind back in 1988 when the superior EF mount was first introduced and crushed the competition. But the competition has come back finally after decades and have caught up and did not go away just have a smaller role in sales to pros and amateurs.

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Jul 28, 2018 06:37:43   #
bedouin
 
One reason I switched to Pentax from Canon over a decade ago was the ability 2 mount any of their previous manual or auto focus lenses to their digital bodies. Especially with their prime lenses and star lenses, I was able to buy some of their best glass and avoid paying for their digital specialized lenses.

I also have the Fuji X- H1 mirrorless and love it. It's IQ is phenomenal. I still have difficulty with the evf, which does not allow me to see subtle fine focus the way I can with a glass prism. it's menu, with all the sub menus is much more difficult to navigate than that of my K-1. Comparing identical photos taken in the standard color mode, the Fuji is just very slightly better with color.

Now when I am on a shoot, I carry both cameras. My work does not require any action photos so I will stick with the middle ground and await further technology.

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Jul 28, 2018 06:41:43   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
bedouin wrote:
One reason I switched to Pentax from Canon over a decade ago was the ability 2 mount any of their previous manual or auto focus lenses to their digital bodies. Especially with their prime lenses and star lenses, I was able to buy some of their best glass and avoid paying for their digital specialized lenses.

I also have the Fuji X- H1 mirrorless and love it. It's IQ is phenomenal. I still have difficulty with the evf, which does not allow me to see subtle fine focus the way I can with a glass prism. it's menu, with all the sub menus is much more difficult to navigate than that of my K-1. Comparing identical photos taken in the standard color mode, the Fuji is just very slightly better with color.

Now when I am on a shoot, I carry both cameras. My work does not require any action photos so I will stick with the middle ground and await further technology.
One reason I switched to Pentax from Canon over a ... (show quote)


That is interesting on the lenses.
Canon takes many old MF lenses on the EOS system and with the M cameras the old FD lenses as well. I use Pentax screw, and Nikon F on my EOS cameras frequently. I have used Exacta lenses as well.

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Jul 28, 2018 07:35:46   #
traderjohn (a regular here)
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
First dont expect Nikon and Canon to knock the "socks" off Sony. Sony will likely make the image sensor for Nikon's new fullframe mirrorless (as they do make the sensor for the Nikon D850). Sony is the world leader in image sensor tech and manufacture, has been for years. Sony also has many years in the fullframe mirrorless camera game, which counts for a lot. Don't think Sony will not answer and up the ante of any good entries from Nikon and Canon. Sony has the resources and they will not just surrender their leadership position in fullframe mirrorless cameras. Sony has new mirrorless camera releases upcoming and they will be watching what Canon and Nikon do and respond.

I do wish Nikon and Canon well in their fullframe mirrorless releases, as real competition benefits us all and keeps all the camera makers innovating. Canon and Nikon have both hinted they will use adapters to make their current lenses fit their upcoming mirrorless bodies, with their shorter flange-to-image sensor distance. Both Nikon and Canon have stated they will develop new lines of mirrorless lenses. These made for mirrorless lenses should work better than any older adapted glass. Yes looks like Nikon will come in with a new big lens mount, which could also be used later with any medium-format Nikon mirrorless image sensor in the future, a good move by Nikon.

If I was a current Canon user I would sit tight on any new lens purchases until Photokina in late September when there should be further info and/or actual prototypes of the new Nikon and Canon full frame mirrorless and you can then decide if your money is better spent on the new mirrorless cameras and their new mirrorless lenses which will be more compact. BTW, full disclosure. I was a top pro Nikon and Canon user for 40 years, and switched to Sony fullframe mirrorless back In January 2017 and have never looked back. Mirrorless has many distinct advantages over DSLR and I enjoy those distinct advantages every time I use my cameras. Nikon and Canon won't abandon their DSLR cameras, but they both recognize the future is in mirrorless tech and gear. It just took them a long time and Sony's success among amateurs and pros to finally get them off their DSLR-dominated thinking and pushed them to join the future. Cheers
First dont expect Nikon and Canon to knock the &qu... (show quote)


If as you say Sony will sell image sensors to Nikon, why?? What would the loss of sensor revenue be in relation to the loss of Sony camera/lens sales for those needing a new camera fix? A new anything that will make them feel whole.

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Jul 28, 2018 08:16:07   #
knessr
 
Mainly weight and physical size. My Canon M6 mirrorless with a 55mm to 200 mm lens weighs in at 1 1/2 pounds whereas my 60D and 70mm to 200mm comes in at 4 1/2 pounds. While 3 pounds doesn't sound like much, it takes it toll carrying around the extra weight day in and day out. And I go the adapter too so if I want to use one of my DSLR lens, I can.

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