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New Mirrorless Direction from Nikon and Conon
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Jul 27, 2018 13:27:43   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
HOT Texas wrote:
knock the socks of Sony? What a joke, Nikon and Canon are so far behind they will never catch up


That's what GM and Ford said about Japanese cars

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Jul 27, 2018 13:30:17   #
MT Shooter (a regular here)
 
Quote:
But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet)


Why is that of particular interest? There is not one single mirrorless camera that shares a lens mount with their SLR counterpart. Nikons Nikon 1 cameras have a different mount from Nikons DSLR bodies. Sony's mirrorless cameras all have a different mount that their SLT models. Canons mirrorless models all have a totally different mount from their DSLR models.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way to built a mirrorless camera, and make it SMALLER than a DSLR camera without redesigning the mount to literally prevent DSLR lenses from mounting. Its nothing to do with the lens mount itself, it is entirely dependant upon the "lens registration" distance. That is, the distance from the rear lens element to the sensor or film plane. The SLR cameras have a mirror box between the lens and sensor so that distance is relatively long. Mirrorless cameras do not have that mirror assembly in the way so the sensor is MUCHG closer to the lens. A DSLR lens would never focus that closer to the sensor so the lens design must be different simply in order to have functionality. BUT, because this distance is closer in the mirrorless design, it allows for almost any type of adapter to mount a different lens at the proper focus registration distance to be built. Control of that adapted lens is limited to electronic compatibility to the cameras functions. That is exactly why the Canon lenses adapt to the Sony cameras better than the Nikon lenses do, the Canons lenses focus direction turns the same way as the Sonys do, the Nikons focus rotation is in the opposite direction and would require an electronic motor to reverse that direction, and that has proven difficult, as well as expensive to produce.

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Jul 27, 2018 13:30:31   #
HOT Texas (a regular here)
 
Rich1939 wrote:
That's what GM and Ford said about Japanese cars



No it was the other way around, Government motors took care of GM, Ford and now fiat.

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Jul 27, 2018 13:32:51   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
HOT Texas wrote:
No it was the other way around, Government motors took care of GM, Ford and now fiat.

When did Gov Motors bail out Ford?

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Jul 27, 2018 13:39:51   #
Bill_de (a regular here)
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Yes it was Nikon design but Sony manufacturing. What is your point.


If you read the post I was replying to (I did use quote reply) I think my point is self evident.

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Jul 27, 2018 13:40:05   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
MT Shooter wrote:
Why is that of particular interest? There is not one single mirrorless camera that shares a lens mount with their SLR counterpart. Nikons Nikon 1 cameras have a different mount from Nikons DSLR bodies. Sony's mirrorless cameras all have a different mount that their SLT models. Canons mirrorless models all have a totally different mount from their DSLR models.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way to built a mirrorless camera, and make it SMALLER than a DSLR camera without redesigning the mount to literally prevent DSLR lenses from mounting. Its nothing to do with the lens mount itself, it is entirely dependant upon the "lens registration" distance. That is, the distance from the rear lens element to the sensor or film plane. The SLR cameras have a mirror box between the lens and sensor so that distance is relatively long. Mirrorless cameras do not have that mirror assembly in the way so the sensor is MUCHG closer to the lens. A DSLR lens would never focus that closer to the sensor so the lens design must be different simply in order to have functionality. BUT, because this distance is closer in the mirrorless design, it allows for almost any type of adapter to mount a different lens at the proper focus registration distance to be built. Control of that adapted lens is limited to electronic compatibility to the cameras functions. That is exactly why the Canon lenses adapt to the Sony cameras better than the Nikon lenses do, the Canons lenses focus direction turns the same way as the Sonys do, the Nikons focus rotation is in the opposite direction and would require an electronic motor to reverse that direction, and that has proven difficult, as well as expensive to produce.
Why is that of particular interest? There is not o... (show quote)


and yet Nikon has announced they have adapters for older lenses to the new mirror less.

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Jul 27, 2018 13:41:31   #
MT Shooter (a regular here)
 
Rich1939 wrote:
and yet Nikon has announced they have adapters for older lenses to the new mirror less.


Well duh! As does everyone else as well!

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Jul 27, 2018 13:41:34   #
HOT Texas (a regular here)
 
Rich1939 wrote:
When did Gov Motors bail out Ford?


They didn't bail out Ford, they just placed so many restriction on all of them, couldn't make a profit, that on top of union's wages all you have to do is close the plant and Japan takes over.

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Jul 27, 2018 13:51:24   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
MT Shooter wrote:
Well duh! As does everyone else as well!


Well duh! your post reads as if users with older lenses are screwed. Some real old lenses yes, generally speaking they are covered. I suspect that wasn't your intent but that's how it reads.
As far as which way the motor turns, that is just a confusion factor for now. the Nikon announcement re older lenses doesn't include the AF-D models.(the ones using an in camera motor)

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Jul 27, 2018 14:17:06   #
speters (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
This week in a B&H email there was an article/ad about Nikon's new mirrolress DSLR coming soon (see link below). There are rumors about Canon also coming out with their own as well. That's great that they are finally getting into the game. I would expect that these two giant's will knock the socks of Sony with all of years of experience.

But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet), one that Nikon claims opens the door for groundbreaking optical opportunities. Now, bringing it home, that puts me in a bind, because I was looking to purchase the Canon 100-400 IS II L lens this year and a new camera in 2019 or early 2020. There is talk about an adapter, but who know how that will work out. My budget is limited and I hate to spend money into a dying line.

Your thoughts on continuing to invest in the current line of DSLR?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless?utm_medium=Email%201686209&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20180725&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless&encEmail=964B8F39F761D7DFF6FF726CA3679A786B3059AF55EC711E95DC83FAE9BD5BF9
This week in a B&H email there was an article/... (show quote)

I will/would never invest in anything other than DSLR's, but to each its own. Whatever you're comfortable with, go for it, but I don't expect either full frame mirrorless from the two to be very "affordable". I expect them to hover around the 4 grand number, or higher!

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Jul 27, 2018 14:25:34   #
DanielB
 
You do realize that Sony makes every sensor for Nikon's line. Canon makes there own but also uses some Sony sensors in it's consumer line.
NJose wrote:
This week in a B&H email there was an article/ad about Nikon's new mirrolress DSLR coming soon (see link below). There are rumors about Canon also coming out with their own as well. That's great that they are finally getting into the game. I would expect that these two giant's will knock the socks of Sony with all of years of experience.

But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet), one that Nikon claims opens the door for groundbreaking optical opportunities. Now, bringing it home, that puts me in a bind, because I was looking to purchase the Canon 100-400 IS II L lens this year and a new camera in 2019 or early 2020. There is talk about an adapter, but who know how that will work out. My budget is limited and I hate to spend money into a dying line.

Your thoughts on continuing to invest in the current line of DSLR?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless?utm_medium=Email%201686209&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20180725&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless&encEmail=964B8F39F761D7DFF6FF726CA3679A786B3059AF55EC711E95DC83FAE9BD5BF9
This week in a B&H email there was an article/... (show quote)

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Jul 27, 2018 14:28:06   #
MT Shooter (a regular here)
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Well duh! your post reads as if users with older lenses are screwed. Some real old lenses yes, generally speaking they are covered. I suspect that wasn't your intent but that's how it reads.
As far as which way the motor turns, that is just a confusion factor for now. the Nikon announcement re older lenses doesn't include the AF-D models.(the ones using an in camera motor)


So you know more about Nikons upcoming adapter than Nikon does? Exactly WHERE does Nikon say that it will NOT drive AF-D lenses? Nikons release only states that an adapter will be available for "....compatibility with your existing Nikkor DSLR lenses." Such a statement means it will accept ALL F-Mount lenses, including even older manual focus lenses, as does the current FT1 adapter for the Nikon 1. Any adapter, from any manufacturer, will be limited to the adapted lens' functional compatibility, naturally.

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Jul 27, 2018 14:37:31   #
Bill_de (a regular here)
 
MT Shooter wrote:
So you know more about Nikons upcoming adapter than Nikon does? Exactly WHERE does Nikon say that it will NOT drive AF-D lenses? Nikons release only states that an adapter will be available for "....compatibility with your existing Nikkor DSLR lenses." Such a statement means it will accept ALL F-Mount lenses, including even older manual focus lenses, as does the current FT1 adapter for the Nikon 1. Any adapter, from any manufacturer, will be limited to the adapted lens' functional compatibility, naturally.
So you know more about Nikons upcoming adapter tha... (show quote)



All it would need is a shaft connecting the body and lens.

Maybe it will look something like this.

http://thenewcamera.com/exclusive-nikon-patent-af-adapter-to-use-dslr-lenses-in-mirrorless/

--

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Jul 27, 2018 14:39:13   #
BebuLamar (a regular here)
 
Bill_de wrote:
All it would need is a shaft connecting the body and lens.

Maybe it will look something like this.

http://thenewcamera.com/exclusive-nikon-patent-af-adapter-to-use-dslr-lenses-in-mirrorless/

--


Not the body and the lens but rather the lens and the adapter. The motor must be in the adapter as the body won't have any mechanical coupling.

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Jul 27, 2018 14:39:49   #
RonM12
 
Rich1939 wrote:
The Tower Jazz rumor has been replaced by factual information. The sensor in the D850 is fabricated by Sony. There was an article on line a while back where a sensor removed from a D850 was analyzed.


Good to know, thanks.

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