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New Mirrorless Direction from Nikon and Conon
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Aug 1, 2018 11:21:18   #
DanielB (a regular here)
 
An International Standard...not going to happen.
hawleyrw wrote:
What I’d like to see (great time to do it with an emerging technology) is a standard mount lens. Fits all makes/models.

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Aug 1, 2018 15:59:13   #
gwilliams6
 
hpucker99 wrote:
Ford was not bailed out, GM and Chrysler were.


Correct, Ford took NO bail out.

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Aug 1, 2018 21:10:46   #
hpucker99
 
burkphoto wrote:
This is a good point!

I was working in the school portrait industry as a lab manager and training content developer during the period I call the digital revolution (1996 to 2010). When we went from film capture to digital capture of portrait images, MANY long-time film photographers gave up the business. They could not handle change. Whether intimidated by computers, or unable to assimilate detailed technical procedures, they retired, sought other lines of work, or, in a couple of cases I know of, went certifiably insane. Our workforce suddenly got younger, smarter, more versatile, and smaller.

The same thing happened in our lab. We had over 100 people who had been there for 20, 30, or even 40+ years. Only a handful of them took our rather blatant hint that they needed to shape up their skills or ship out. We offered free computer training at the local community college. We offered free typing classes. We offered training classes in the lab. But in the end, most of them did not qualify for the new roles we had in digital imaging.

Of course, that was just as well, because the new processes were far more efficient than the old. Then too, with the advent of the world wide web, photo sharing sites, digital cameras in the hands of the "Debbie Digital" moms, the iPhone and Android smartphone revolution, and the recession of the late 2000s, our market went to hell in a hand basket. We closed three of our four labs. Massive consolidation occurred, as Lifetouch bought up as many school portrait companies as it could consume. They bought our division from Herff Jones in 2011. But recently, Lifetouch was consumed by Shutterfly. Like waves washing sand castles off of the beach...

I get the idea that people in their 60s to 90s don't want to change. Heck, film's still around! Use that if you want to. Or use your dSLR until it dies. Used ones will be cheap in a few years, even if they quit making new ones.

Mirrorless offers dozens of advantages over dSLRs, but dSLRs have some over mirrorless, still. For many, the biggest is that they're paid for!
This is a good point! br br I was working in the ... (show quote)



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Aug 1, 2018 21:29:50   #
gwilliams6
 
burkphoto wrote:
This is a good point!

I was working in the school portrait industry as a lab manager and training content developer during the period I call the digital revolution (1996 to 2010). When we went from film capture to digital capture of portrait images, MANY long-time film photographers gave up the business. They could not handle change. Whether intimidated by computers, or unable to assimilate detailed technical procedures, they retired, sought other lines of work, or, in a couple of cases I know of, went certifiably insane. Our workforce suddenly got younger, smarter, more versatile, and smaller.

The same thing happened in our lab. We had over 100 people who had been there for 20, 30, or even 40+ years. Only a handful of them took our rather blatant hint that they needed to shape up their skills or ship out. We offered free computer training at the local community college. We offered free typing classes. We offered training classes in the lab. But in the end, most of them did not qualify for the new roles we had in digital imaging.

Of course, that was just as well, because the new processes were far more efficient than the old. Then too, with the advent of the world wide web, photo sharing sites, digital cameras in the hands of the "Debbie Digital" moms, the iPhone and Android smartphone revolution, and the recession of the late 2000s, our market went to hell in a hand basket. We closed three of our four labs. Massive consolidation occurred, as Lifetouch bought up as many school portrait companies as it could consume. They bought our division from Herff Jones in 2011. But recently, Lifetouch was consumed by Shutterfly. Like waves washing sand castles off of the beach...

I get the idea that people in their 60s to 90s don't want to change. Heck, film's still around! Use that if you want to. Or use your dSLR until it dies. Used ones will be cheap in a few years, even if they quit making new ones.

Mirrorless offers dozens of advantages over dSLRs, but dSLRs have some over mirrorless, still. For many, the biggest is that they're paid for!
This is a good point! br br I was working in the ... (show quote)


Burkphoto, I love your experience, insightful comments and your level-headiness in all these sometimes passionate discussions. I too was a film baby and made the transition to digital for all my professional and personal work. FYI, I turned 67 last week. I embraced the new technology, but I was always kind of a nerd and tech junkie anyway. Sadly, like some of your former colleagues, many of my fellow film professional photogs are long gone out of the business because they couldn't change with the times and work with the new realities of the business.

As you know, I was a pro Nikon and Canon user for over 40 years and switched to fullframe and APS-C Sony mirrorless back In January 2017, and have never looked back. I switched for all the advantages of mirrorless that I use every time I shoot. I truly dont miss anything about my former beloved DSLRs at all. Burkphoto, please refresh my memory, because I cant think of any advantages DSLRs have over the best mirrorless anymore? LOL . FYI, all my mirrorless gear is paid for, a large part of that from selling my extensive DSLR gear. Cheers.

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Aug 5, 2018 18:37:29   #
MauiMoto
 
al13 wrote:
Does anyone think that Sony keeps the most innovative sensors for their own cameras?


That question has been asked previously and the most reasonable answers were all no. For one thing it's not a Sony sensor it's a Nikon sensor manufactured by Sony. If it was a second rate Sony sensor Nikon would not use it in their flagship camera.

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Aug 5, 2018 20:46:19   #
gwilliams6
 
MauiMoto wrote:
That question has been asked previously and the most reasonable answers were all no. For one thing it's not a Sony sensor it's a Nikon sensor manufactured by Sony. If it was a second rate Sony sensor Nikon would not use it in their flagship camera.


The truth of the matter is Sony does keep the best fullframe sensors they can make for their own fullframe cameras. No other fullframe camera for any Sony client (in the entire world) has the stacked, front-illuminated sensor of the Sony A9. This is the fastest reading sensor for any fullframe camera and enables the A9 to acquire, focus and shoot 20 frames per second, which no fullframe DSLR can match. Don't get caught up on the "Nikon designed" part of the D850 sensor. Sony has led in sensor tech and manufacturing for years and still does. Just wait until you see what sensors Sony unleashes for their upcoming A7SIII and A9R. Be prepared for Sony to make a huge leap and blow away Canon and Nikon's "designed" sensors in their mirrorless. There are already hints leaking out today on that very subject.
http://thenewcamera.com/nikon-mirrorless-adapter-with-phase-af-sensor-and-sony-a9r-with-60-mp-resolution/

Sony always keeps their aces up their sleeves until the competition shows their hand, then Sony greatly raises the bar again. Sony intends to be number one and stay there in the fullframe mirrorless market. Their continued innovations in sensor tech will help keep them number one in fullframe mirrorless. Cheers

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Aug 6, 2018 18:56:33   #
hpucker99
 
CatMarley wrote:
If I were Nikon, I would license the mount to the 3rd parties and get a royalty on every lens they sell with the new mount. Everybody could make money a lot faster that way.


Why would the 3rd parties license the new mount if they can legally reverse engineer it?

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Aug 6, 2018 19:16:06   #
BebuLamar (a regular here)
 
hpucker99 wrote:
Why would the 3rd parties license the new mount if they can legally reverse engineer it?


If they can license the mount for a reasonable fee they would because that would avoid a lot of problems that Sigma experiencing.

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Aug 7, 2018 11:44:53   #
rwoodvira
 
I agree with gwilliams6; unless there is a pressing need, I'd hold for right now. If there is a pressing need, perhaps rent.

I think the industry is on the cusp of change. Many, including myself, feel that Sony caught Nikon & Canon napping. Perhaps Nikon's drop of their prior mirrorless line (which sucked) and
rapid announcement of the new mirrorless on the way shows their concern. 3rd party lens makers, such as Sigma are making lenses that rival or even surpass the big guys. I've seen photos from
small outfits lenses like Laowa and Irix that rival Zeiss in my opinion.

I have a friend who was trying to stay with Canon for a full frame camera. He read the reviews, asked what I thought and I advised if manna fell from heaven I'd switch to Sony
and then he bought the A 7 iii. He loves it. I've spoken to three different store owners who've advised that Canon and Nikon have really dropped the ball, they can't keep that camera in stock.

I used for years the Lumix LX7 as a carry. After reading a lot I decided to try the GX85 which had a 2 lens deal. I use it for my mandatory walks around a local lake after a bunch of surgeries.
What a difference in weight even from my SL2.Do I like the photos as much as from the mirrorless as my Canons - not yet, but I'm still learning the system. But the 5 axis stabilization rocks. The Lumix
was a much cheaper step than purchasing the Sony. Another reason is that sooner or later Sony will be updating their APS-C line. The current Canon mirrorless line pales compared to either Sony or Panasonic
from my view.

In many cases we will be able to use our prior lenses, but as lenses improve, those that are serious photographers will migrate to the hopefully lighter and better lenses.

The future should be interesting.

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Aug 7, 2018 13:33:10   #
gwilliams6
 
Latest size comparison of new Nikon fullframe mirrorless vs Nikon D850 vs Sony A7RIII (the Sony A7III and A9 are basically the same size as the A7RIII). Notice the very large lens mount size on the new Nikon fullframe mirrorless. As many have speculated, Nikon may be making a lens mount that will work for both fullframe and medium format image sensor cameras. If true, a bold move by Nikon to separate itself from the pack.

If you are a Nikon fanboy or fangirl I would certainly hold off buying any new system until you see these on the official announcement date of August 23rd. I predict Nikon will introduce a real winner. Hey I am a Sony user now, but I want Nikon to really succeed and stay healthy. Real competition will force Canon and Sony to really keep innovating, and we all win. Cheers

http://www.nikoneye.com/nikon-mirrorless-vs-d850-vs-sony-a7-size-comparison/

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Aug 7, 2018 16:44:08   #
rwoodvira
 
If that comes to pass, I agree Nikon will have a real winner. The only thing I counseled my friend about the A7iii was that I understand that it has some issue with weatherproofing.

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Aug 7, 2018 21:11:55   #
gwilliams6
 
rwoodvira wrote:
If that comes to pass, I agree Nikon will have a real winner. The only thing I counseled my friend about the A7iii was that I understand that it has some issue with weatherproofing.


I have an A7III and an A7RIII and have used both in wet and dusty conditions here and abroad with no issues. I dont drench my cameras or sit them in water, but I don't baby them any more than I did my Canon and Nikon DSLRs. It is not a real issue for most pros. SoMe top wildlife shooters are using these cameras in arctic and subtropic conditions without issue. Here is a shot I made of Brooke while standing in the Caribbean Sea off island of St. Martin. I had water and sand all day blowing over my A7III with no issues. CLICK ON DOWNLOAD BENEATH THIS SHOT TO SEE THE REAL COLORS AND RESOLUTION OF THIS SHOT. THIS PREVIEW IMAGE IS TOTALLY DULLED. CHEERS


(Download)

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Aug 7, 2018 22:28:48   #
MauiMoto
 
The anticipation, I can't wait.

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Aug 8, 2018 06:03:29   #
Cdouthitt
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Burkphoto, please refresh my memory, because I cant think of any advantages DSLRs have over the best mirrorless anymore?


Obviously not Burk here, but I’ll answer. The only drawback that I see is battery life...they’re getting better, and it’s fairly easy to overcome by having extra or using a battery grip.

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Aug 8, 2018 16:22:22   #
gwilliams6
 
Cdouthitt wrote:
Obviously not Burk here, but I’ll answer. The only drawback that I see is battery life...they’re getting better, and it’s fairly easy to overcome by having extra or using a battery grip.


At least for the latest Sonys A7RIII, A7III and A9 the new Z-battery is rated similar to the best DSLR batteries. Yes mirrorless cameras use more battery to power the EVF, but I can get over a thousands shots out of one Z-battery, and long 4k video record times also with my A7RIII and A7III. The battery issue is NO longer an issue for pros like me. Cheers

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