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Crop sensor camera verses full frame
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May 15, 2018 10:03:16   #
photocurt
 
Remember, you often want to crop way in on a photo (ie birds or something). The FF camera and better lenses will allow you to do that to a greater extent. I say this because I like to do it with my D750 FF pictures. :-)

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May 15, 2018 10:06:24   #
BebuLamar
 
I probably would buy a camera which has sensor smaller than 24x36mm but since I have my 35mm SLRs and I want to use the lenses I have plus using the film and digital camera both I opted for the so called full frame camera. That's about the only reason for me.

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May 15, 2018 10:08:41   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
Mike Holmes wrote:
If this has been discussed before I apologize but I am new to photography and it seems to me that crop sensor cameras give you more bang for your buck. Assuming the crop sensor dslr has reasonable high resolution i.e. 24mp. With a crop sensor camera the cost of the lenses is less because of the 1.5 increase in magnification and the camera is also less money. I assume the image quality is somewhat better with full frame cameras but unless you are making very large prints will the results really be that apparent?
If this has been discussed before I apologize but ... (show quote)

I don't think many people can tell the difference between crop sensor and full frame prints. I am certain no one can tell the difference with images posted online.

https://photographylife.com/dpi-vs-ppi

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May 15, 2018 10:11:44   #
gwilliams6
 
You can get the fullframe 10fps Sony A7III with lens for $2200. 15 stops of dynamic range does separate the best Fullframe cameras like NikonD850, Sony A7RIII and A7III from the best of the APS-C cameras. Better low noise and low light performance in stills and video are a FF reality. But you still can be completely happy with a quality APS-C or micro 4/3 system. Modern digital FF cameras are superior in dynamic range and equal in image quality as film cameras. No film camera ever had 15 stops of dynamic range. Cheers

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May 15, 2018 10:12:17   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
photocurt wrote:
Remember, you often want to crop way in on a photo (ie birds or something). The FF camera and better lenses will allow you to do that to a greater extent. I say this because I like to do it with my D750 FF pictures. :-)

24Mp is 24Mp. If you crop to 12Mp on a 1.5 or 2.0 crop sensor camera you will have exactly the same image as you will cropping to 12Mp on a full frame 24Mp camera.

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May 15, 2018 10:18:57   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Sorry if this has been said before, however the "crop" sensor refers to the field of view compared to a 35mm equivalent full frame. It does not "magnify". It is akin to taking a image on a full frame camera and bringing it in to Photoshop and then use the "crop" tool to crop it to a smaller image (smaller area of view). If you zoom in then of course it appears to be an enlarged view however it is in fact the same image with just a different field of view.

Some of the finest cameras are smaller sensor (cropped sensor). In the Nikon lineup, the D500 is great for action and wildlife photography and is the choice of many. Other brands have comparative cameras as well. Several manufacturers buy their sensors from other makers.

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May 15, 2018 10:19:14   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
bowserb wrote:
The big boys (Nikon and Canon) have never taken APS-C seriously. Look at their lens lines for those cameras. In Canon, the highest quality lenses are designated "L". You will not find a single L lens in EF-S (Canon's crop sensor lenses), even though Canon has been selling crop cameras for over 15 years. Of course, Canon's full frame "EF" lenses also work on EF-S camera bodies, although for any given focal length, you are carrying more bulk and weight than the crop sensor body needs. And BTW, the crop sensor cameras don't have a "magnification". Those 1.5, 1.6, or 2 numbersare crop factors. That crop makes a 50mm lens have an angle of view comparable to 75, 80, or 100mm on a full frame camera.

As to prints, no matter what you hear, the fact is, more pixels will make a sharper print in larger sizes. It is less obvious in very large prints, but that is because you don't look at a large print as closely as you do a 4x6. My wife uses a 50.6 megapixel Canon 5DSR. Photos from her camera with a high quality lens, taken at ISO 100 in good light, produce sharper 16x24 prints than I would have thought possible with digital. And yes, modern quality lenses do resolve detail as great as a 50 megapixel sensor can record.

What about the same number of pixels in a crop vs full frame sensor. Along those lines, generally speaking, a full frame sensor with the same pixel count as a crop sensor, will likely produce a better image, especially in low light. Why? The individual pixels are larger and therefore can record more light without amplification and therefore with less noise. That assumes other things are equal and of more or less the same generation. Technology keeps improving, so comparing a full frame from 2008 with a crop from 2018 might seem to dispute the idea that bigger is always better.

Lenses made for crop sensor cameras are smaller and lighter because they only have to produce an image circle big enough for a crop sensor. For that reason, there are some extraordinary zoom lenses for crop sensor cameras--that would be unreasonably large, heavy and expensive if made comparable for a full frame camera. I use a Tamron 16-300mm lens for everyday or travel. Its zoom range encompasses angles of view equal to 25.6 to 480 on a full frame camera. Lenses for crop sensor cameras are also less expensive, partly because they're smaller and partly because they're often also more cheaply made. Want to compare some lenses? Look here: http://www.opticallimits.com/

Now, I think you can work out FF vs Crop. The much bigger consideration these days is DSLR vs MILC. My friend, mirrorless is the future. Even stodgy old Canon has begun to admit that. My first Nikon F was an SLR, made in 1967 using 1950's technology. My wife's Canon 5DSR, except for using a sensor instead of film and having autofocus instead of manual, uses essentially the same mechanical technology from the 1950's. That flipping mirror, and before very long, the shutter curtain, is in a race to the history books. Starting with no camera right now, you want to decide DSLR vs mirrorless, as well as full frame vs crop. As of today, I think your full frame mirrorless options are limited to Sony or Sony. In crop mirrorless, you have more choices. Canon has only recently begun to make "real" cameras in mirrorless ("real" to me means it has an integrated EVF.) Nikon is still talking about it. Sony is in with both feet and a bewildering array of bodies, lenses, and model designations that only a Sony devotee can decipher. Fuji is in mirrorless 100% as well with both APS-C and even a medium format camera. In micro four thirds, you have Olympus and Panasonic. Samsung was there but has dropped out. Generally speaking, I think you'll find a better selection of lenses in the crop format cameras from companies that make only those. Micro four thirds, as well as crop sensor APS-C mirrorless, lenses can be a bit smaller and lighter than lenses made for DSLRs, since they focus their images closer to the rear of the lens. Micro four thirds has also the advantage of being both a sensor and lens mount standard, so m43 lenses made for Panasonic work on Olympus and vice versa.

Or, you could just use your iPhone.
The big boys (Nikon and Canon) have never taken AP... (show quote)


Errr, all the L lenses work on APS-C bodies. Did you really not know that?

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May 15, 2018 10:20:25   #
gwilliams6
 
jackpinoh wrote:
24Mp is 24Mp. If you crop to 12Mp on a 1.5 or 2.0 crop sensor camera you will have exactly the same image as you will cropping to 12Mp on a full frame 24Mp camera.


The megapixel count can be the same, but the actual individual pixel size in my 24megapixel APS-C size A6500 and my 24megapixel fullframe size A7III are NOT the same. You can make an equal size image, but the larger individual pixels in the fullframe sensor will do better at less noise and low light performance.

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May 15, 2018 10:42:08   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
The megapixel count can be the same, but the actual individual pixel size in my 24megapixel APS-C size A6500 and my 24megapixel fullframe size A7III are NOT the same. You can make an equal size image, but the larger individual pixels in the fullframe sensor will do better at less noise and low light performance.

Yes. Full frame cameras (except Canon) have dynamic range and noise advantages over crop sensor cameras. How much better? One stop? Two stops? There are ways to offset that one or two stop advantage. Leave the shutter open twice as long. Use a stabilized lens, tripod, or in-body stabilization to enable longer exposure and corresponding lower ISO. There are lots of options available to offset that one stop advantage (Some micro 4/3 cameras can achieve a 6-stop stabilization advantage). Buying a full frame camera for an extra stop or two of noise or dynamic range is foolish for anyone who is not a professional. And there are a lot of professional landscape, wildlife, and travel photographers who use micro 4/3 or APS-C cameras because of their significant weight and/or field of view advantages. It is especially stupid to think you need a full frame camera if you only post your images on the internet.

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May 15, 2018 10:44:19   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
Longshadow wrote:
But you'll only find the posts where someone has put meaningful/related words in the title.


The best place for this subject is in “ Search” real simple!

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May 15, 2018 10:51:07   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Agree.
mwsilvers wrote:
The general topic of crop vs FF cameras or lenses has been brought up by newbies, and sometimes not so newbies, at least a few times a week, every week, for years. A few quick searches will result in more factual information, opinions, and misinformation then you'll ever want to read.

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May 15, 2018 10:51:41   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
bkyser wrote:
Jerry, you forget the D-500, heavier and larger than all but the D-8xx FF cameras, and more expensive than the D750.

I love mine, but bargain price, and low weight aren't 2 things I would attribute to it.


Ah, yes. The D500. Nice choice. If I needed/wanted a new camera, I would give that serious consideration.

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May 15, 2018 10:58:50   #
leftj Loc: Texas
 
Mike Holmes wrote:
If this has been discussed before I apologize but I am new to photography and it seems to me that crop sensor cameras give you more bang for your buck. Assuming the crop sensor dslr has reasonable high resolution i.e. 24mp. With a crop sensor camera the cost of the lenses is less because of the 1.5 increase in magnification and the camera is also less money. I assume the image quality is somewhat better with full frame cameras but unless you are making very large prints will the results really be that apparent?
If this has been discussed before I apologize but ... (show quote)


Don't worry about the discussed before issue. I challenge anyone to bring up a photography related subject or issue that hasn't been brought up before. I will say you statement about the cost of lenses being less because of the 1.5 increase in magnification is incorrect. The cost is less for lenses made for crop sensor cameras is less because the glass and overall quality for the pro full frame lenses is superior to the crop sensor lenses. The great thing is that you can still use these superior lenses on your crop sensor camera.

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May 15, 2018 11:08:12   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
Here is a well reasoned article on the subject:
https://www.theoverratedphotographer.com/Theoverratedphotog/ArticlesF/APSC-vs-Full-Frames

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May 15, 2018 11:32:54   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
Mike Holmes wrote:
Thanks I will do a search. Sorry to rehash a old subject!!!


I use daily my D7200. I do plan to go full frame with the Nikon D810. That is because they have actually raised the resolution in full frame. As far as my math tells me the full frame is 36 mpx while the small frame is 24 mpx. As far as I can tell all they did to make the 24 mpx sensor is cut the edges off the full frame sensor. If you go pix per inch resolution both are pretty much the same in both DX and full frame. That is pixels per inch of a sensor. The camera manufacturers have given us sensor resolution as one side of a sensor times the other side is resolution pixels. I still say they should rate the resolution as pixels per inch which will tell us something more reliable than one side times the other side of the sensor. Since the 45 mpx sensor is said to be full frame I will believe it as long as the full frame at 45 mpx is the same size as the 36 mpx sensor. I know someone may disagree but as long as they can give me facts I will learn more. I used to be an electronics expert years ago. and then a pro film photographer. I still prefer film but the problems with getting good film these days turned me to the digital side.

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